Princeton AROTC or Yale NROTC?

boy_from_cali

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Hello forum,

I am in my last month as a high school senior and I am so thankful for serviceacademyforum in guiding me through the ROTC process. I am fortunate enough to receive offers to both Princeton and Yale for a 4-year Army ROTC scholarship and a 4-year Tier 3 Navy Scholarship respectively, but I have only two weeks left to make a decision.

I have visited both schools and to be honest, the academics, social life and the professors are all very similar. Both ROTC programs are the same size (30-40~cadets/mids), led by amazing cadre and well supported by the college administrations. Many people have told me that I can't go wrong with both choices, but it's 4 years of my college experience and 5+ years of my life after college so I'm fairly stressed out right now!

I was hoping if anyone who've had to choose between both institutions could share advice on what decision they made and why. I love AROTC and NROTC equally and all I want is to serve my country, but I feel like I may be missing some insight on both particular schools. Any help or advice is appreciated. Thank you.
 
Agree with the Skipper.

Focus on both your military and your post-military career. Which school and branch best prepares you for both paths? If you go Army, are you ready to go slogging through mud and filth on ruck marches? If you go Navy, are you okay with being away at sea for months at a time?

You are blessed with two amazing opportunities. Your inner voice will tell you the right path to follow.
 
Since you cant decide betweens schools or branch, forget about making that decision. Decide what do you want to do when you commission. You start from there and go backwards. Want to be a fighter pilot, then you need to be Navy as Army doesnt have fighters. Want to work with Tanks, then you go Army. Figure out what you want to do and then decide which school and branch will give you the opporunity or the better chance at that opporutnity.
 
DD was in your position several years ago - for her it was an easy choice, but your experience may be very different. She really liked the Army ROTC unit at Princeton. However . . .

When she visited the campuses after her junior year of high school, at Yale the head of the department for her major met with her and gave her his home phone number in case she had further questions, she was given a personal tour of one of the museums she would be working with in her major and was handed three thousand year old artifacts to examine, and one of the professors she would study with took her out for coffee and a discussion. When she visited Princeton, the department told her that everyone was busy and no one had time to meet with her. When she did campus tours, at Yale they talked about Yale. At Princeton, they talked about why they were just as good as Harvard or Yale. Yale students she met were very friendly and "down-home" and she could relate well to them. Princeton made a great emphasis on how smart their students were and how much they had accomplished prior to being accepted - she felt a bit out of place with students there. Yale assigned students to dorms with freshmen together but knowing which house they would be in their sophomore thru senior years; students could eat anywhere on campus but would usually eat in their own house. Fraternities and Sororities were not emphasized very much. Princeton placed a great emphasis on their Eating Clubs, with most students applying to be a member of an eating club and their social life revolving around them as they would take their meals with their club.

When she interviewed for Yale, she and the interviewer had a good discussion. When she interviewed for Princeton, the interviewer stood her up the first two times they were supposed to meet, and when he finally did show up the interview was about why Princeton was just as good as Harvard or Yale.

After acceptance, Yale paid her way to visit the school on her schedule and sent a limo to pick her up at the airport. Princeton said she could only visit on their one scheduled weekend which didn't work with her schedule, so she didn't make the second visit to Princeton. She had at least a half dozen students from Yale call her at home to encourage her to attend there. Princeton sent her a form letter.

One thing she didn't like about Yale was the co-ed bathrooms and showers. When she did an overnight visit at Yale, she wasn't excited about getting out of the shower stall with her bathrobe on and finding a guy getting ready to get into the shower stall next to her. In the end, that was a deal-killer for Yale - she ended up choosing Harvard with it's old-fashioned same sex bathrooms.
 
1. Accept both scholarships immediately and end that part of the stress. Now you only need to decide which school by May 1. Whichever scholarship you do not use, let them know.
2. Looks at the jobs available in AROTC and NROTC. For NROTC you'll need to look at Navy jobs or Marine Corps jobs, depending which one you chose on your application.
3. If you don't get your dream job in that service are there other jobs that interest you? There is no guarantee you'll get the job you wnat. DS got 3rd choice in part because of how the Marine Corps decides your MOS.
4. Want to go reserves then go Army. All Commissioned NROTC midshipmen go active duty.
5. Why would anyone choose anything but the Marine Corps???? :D
 
I think your dilemma is bit different from guys choosing USMA vs USNA. I think your first elimination question should be to ask yourself do you get sea sick? If you do then Navy is out.

That was the first question my DS Congressional Office asked him when they saw his LOA from USNA. So that got him thinking for a minute, maybe 30 seconds. He then remembered as a child we used to take a boat out to sea every weekend. And this was a large motor boat that can fit 25 people. And he used to run around the boat chasing his friends. And he never had sea sick. People get Sea sick on larger ships as well so sea sick is sea sick. So he said no I don’t get sea sick.

Princeton Army, Yale Navy. Like others said your preference on a land mission vs sea mission or aviation on ships vs Aviation on land is another consideration. People always have preference for one not both if you really honestly ask yourself your inner voice will tell you the right answer. Even though my DS is likely to pursue a Navy career in ocean going missions he still prefers a land job. Because Navy ships are still alien to him.

Lastly what Brand works better for you Princeton or Yale. There’s a brand perception that is bit stronger by schools. Find out what people think of each Schools. I have my perception on both but it can be different from yours because you have different exposure with these schools. These two Schools have similar hierarchy maybe equal but the schools carry very different brand perception and voice in the market.
 
Wow, what a great problem to have! Definitely listen to Kinnem, accept both scholarships, you can decline one later.

I have no service specific input as my daughter has always been a 100 percent Army, and never considered anything else, so my advice would be one sided. I will however give general advice without specifics to Army or Navy. As with many decisions in life, you might have to go gut decision with financial considerations. Is there a big cost difference from an Army scholarship versus a Navy tier 3? I don’t know the answer but for some families all other things being equal it might be an important factor.

The Lieutenant Colonel at my daughter’s AROTC detachment started out his freshman year in college as a Navy mid studying biology and graduated and commissioned as an Army Officer in engineering, so I am confident you are not the only high school senior to have struggled with this decision! Good luck and please keep us posted with your decision.
 
Congrats. You say you've visited both schools already but if you are going back for admitted students day one add'l suggestion I have is to actually participate in an a.m. workout with the ROTC unit if possible. My DS' choice came down to AROTC at Harvard or NROTC at Yale. Actually participating in an ROTC activity with the unit gave him great insight into the logistics he would deal with plus insight into the culture (i.e. did everyone show up on time, was the vibe laid back or regimented, ...) which helped him determine where he felt most comfortable. Also, that way you get to talk to a cross-section of students rather than the ones the unit often handpicks to do outreach!
 
Fwiw (= $0.02 & a cup of latte americano whatever), I think you will find
- Princeton to be a bit more snobbish / uptight / scientifically-inclined / aristocratic and
- Yale to be a bit more open / relaxed / friendly / artistically-inclined / egalitarian.

Princeton still has "eating clubs" that admit based on how well you fit their preconceived social stereotype (squash player/summer in the Hamptons? Cool! rustbelt/work a fast food job in the summer? Not so much...).

Yale OTOH has "colleges" i.e. residential living communities in which everyone as an equal is welcome.

Anyway, that's the traditional stereotype. You really ought to get on a plane & go visit, spend a night, see how the kids at each campus get along. You'll know, very quickly, which is right for you.
 
Here’s another observation and experience.

I think that’s the impression some people get but not all people get that. Yale has plenty of that snobbery too if you look for it. Harvard and Columbia much less. In fact Harvard, Columbia, Stanford, MIT attract more middle class and working class than Princeton and Yale.

My uncle went to Princeton in the late 70s for his Masters and PhD in EE and Computer Science. If anything, it would have been more snobbish back then. He saw none or perhaps very little. He never spoke ill of Princeton in that way at all. His kids went to Harvard and Brown because they went to feeder schools that was popular to those schools.

My cousin went to Princeton in mid-to-late 80s for his Bachelors. No snobbery then either. And he chose Princeton over Harvard because he thought Harvard might be snobbish. He got his Masters at Columbia and he felt just fine there too.

My nephew went to Princeton for his Bachelors and Masters. He absolutely loved it!

I went to Yale, Columbia and Harvard in the 80s and 90s and I never found Yale snobbish either. Just little too liberal compared to even Columbia. Harvard is also very liberal. And definitely a lot more liberal than Princeton. If you’re gay you’ll feel more comfortable at Yale. Princeton is more conservative than Yale and Harvard. So if you like conservative you’ll like Princeton. It’s a brilliant place to get a first class education. Many come with a free ride even without ROTC Scholarship because the school is so well endowed. Princeton is known to be the most generous among the Ivies and top schools with scholarship. Harvard and Columbia are least generous. Yale is more generous than Harvard and Columbia but Princeton beat all schools with generous scholarships.

We’re all from the middle class so no snobbish aristocrats here with a mansion and a yacht. But we all worked hard to get there. No free ride and entitlements.

If you have an offer pick the school that speaks to you the most!
 
Most conservative places are the Academies. So if you want a Military college experience and prefer a Conservative environment go to the Academy. It will serve you well. Hack that’s what I should have done. I’m into all that tradition history fraternity and honor and country. I thought the Ivies have it. Yes they do but Academies’ fraternity is a lot stronger. If you have the ticket to the Academies that’s a better ticket if you want the real Military college experience and a stronger fraternity. You can always go to the Ivies for your Masters. But that’s me. Again choose the school that speaks to you the most.
 
1. Accept both scholarships immediately and end that part of the stress. Now you only need to decide which school by May 1. Whichever scholarship you do not use, let them know.
2. Looks at the jobs available in AROTC and NROTC. For NROTC you'll need to look at Navy jobs or Marine Corps jobs, depending which one you chose on your application.
3. If you don't get your dream job in that service are there other jobs that interest you? There is no guarantee you'll get the job you wnat. DS got 3rd choice in part because of how the Marine Corps decides your MOS.
4. Want to go reserves then go Army. All Commissioned NROTC midshipmen go active duty.
5. Why would anyone choose anything but the Marine Corps???? :D

Are you allowed to accept a scholarship at a school even if you are not sure you are going to there? Also when do you need to let them know?
 
Here’s another observation and experience.
I think that’s the impression some people get but not all people get that. Yale has plenty of that snobbery too if you look for it. Harvard and Columbia much less. In fact Harvard, Columbia, Stanford, MIT attract more middle class and working class than Princeton and Yale.

... Princeton is more conservative than Yale and Harvard. So if you like conservative you’ll like Princeton. It’s a brilliant place to get a first class education. Many come with a free ride even without ROTC Scholarship because the school is so well endowed. Princeton is known to be the most generous among the Ivies and top schools with scholarship. Harvard and Columbia are least generous. Yale is more generous than Harvard and Columbia but Princeton beat all schools with generous scholarships.

We’re all from the middle class so no snobbish aristocrats here with a mansion and a yacht. But we all worked hard to get there. No free ride and entitlements.
If you have an offer pick the school that speaks to you the most!

Agree with the above - Princeton & Yale are more similar than different, for sure. Also agree that, if you lean conservative, you will find more like-minded classmates and professors at Princeton than any of the other top ivies. (Dartmouth is also noticeably more conservative than the other ivies.)

Princeton has a famous conservative political science professor, Robert P. "Robby" George, whose class on the Constitution has been taken by many younger US conservative leaders including Ted Cruz. Prof. George runs the James Madison Program inside Princeton that's definitely worth exploring.
 
Here’s another observation and experience.

I think that’s the impression some people get but not all people get that. Yale has plenty of that snobbery too if you look for it. Harvard and Columbia much less. In fact Harvard, Columbia, Stanford, MIT attract more middle class and working class than Princeton and Yale.

My uncle went to Princeton in the late 70s for his Masters and PhD in EE and Computer Science. If anything, it would have been more snobbish back then. He saw none or perhaps very little. He never spoke ill of Princeton in that way at all. His kids went to Harvard and Brown because they went to feeder schools that was popular to those schools.

My cousin went to Princeton in mid-to-late 80s for his Bachelors. No snobbery then either. And he chose Princeton over Harvard because he thought Harvard might be snobbish. He got his Masters at Columbia and he felt just fine there too.

My nephew went to Princeton for his Bachelors and Masters. He absolutely loved it!

I went to Yale, Columbia and Harvard in the 80s and 90s and I never found Yale snobbish either. Just little too liberal compared to even Columbia. Harvard is also very liberal. And definitely a lot more liberal than Princeton. If you’re gay you’ll feel more comfortable at Yale. Princeton is more conservative than Yale and Harvard. So if you like conservative you’ll like Princeton. It’s a brilliant place to get a first class education. Many come with a free ride even without ROTC Scholarship because the school is so well endowed. Princeton is known to be the most generous among the Ivies and top schools with scholarship. Harvard and Columbia are least generous. Yale is more generous than Harvard and Columbia but Princeton beat all schools with generous scholarships.

We’re all from the middle class so no snobbish aristocrats here with a mansion and a yacht. But we all worked hard to get there. No free ride and entitlements.

If you have an offer pick the school that speaks to you the most!

Thank you so much for your perspective, sir. I really did pick the school that spoke to me the most!
 
Agree with the Skipper.

Focus on both your military and your post-military career. Which school and branch best prepares you for both paths? If you go Army, are you ready to go slogging through mud and filth on ruck marches? If you go Navy, are you okay with being away at sea for months at a time?

You are blessed with two amazing opportunities. Your inner voice will tell you the right path to follow.

Thank you so much! My inner voice did tell me where to go and with great clarity. I am very happy with the decision I made.
 
Thank you to everyone who wrote on this forum. Honestly, I knew this forum was the right place to ask because in my hometown, many people, friends, neighbors do not know what ROTC is and therefore had no advice to offer. In addition, I always feared that a lot of my peers would think that I was just trying to "show off" when I asked them about this dilemma so really thank you to you all.

I have made a decision and I am extremely happy with my choice. My inner voice told me where to go and really there's no looking back. God Bless.
 
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