Now that DS is a Candidate

Tucker2023

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Jan 26, 2018
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DS received an email this morning and he logged on and found he was promoted to candidate status. Maybe they just roled out these promotions today (July 1)? He actually had his interview with the BGO last Friday for USNA. He loved NASS.

He's given a heads up to his teachers and evals and recommendations. He needs to get busy writing some essays!

Question:

He did well on the CFA at NASS:
Basketball throw 65'
Pull ups 15
Shuttle run 8.56
Sit ups 64
Push ups 54
Mile 6:43

That box is checked off on his USNA online application so I guess it was good enough? He believed it was an above average result among the kiddos at NASS. Question is - Does anyone know if the USAFA can receive the NASS CFA scores so it will work for both applications? He will email admissions if we can't find an answer on here. =)
 
DS received an email this morning and he logged on and found he was promoted to candidate status. Maybe they just roled out these promotions today (July 1)? He actually had his interview with the BGO last Friday for USNA. He loved NASS.

He's given a heads up to his teachers and evals and recommendations. He needs to get busy writing some essays!

Question:

He did well on the CFA at NASS:
Basketball throw 65'
Pull ups 15
Shuttle run 8.56
Sit ups 64
Push ups 54
Mile 6:43

That box is checked off on his USNA online application so I guess it was good enough? He believed it was an above average result among the kiddos at NASS. Question is - Does anyone know if the USAFA can receive the NASS CFA scores so it will work for both applications? He will email admissions if we can't find an answer on here. =)

Has he gotten anything for the DODMERB exam yet?
 
Has he gotten anything for the DODMERB exam yet?

Not yet - for either academy. BGO said to expect it soon. He needed to finish several more of the items on the USNA application which he worked on yesterday. It's not complete but I believe its far enough to to trigger the medical exam now (again - for USNA). He has to complete 3 items in the newly opened USAFA portal to trigger the medical.
 
DS received an email this morning and he logged on and found he was promoted to candidate status. Maybe they just roled out these promotions today (July 1)? He actually had his interview with the BGO last Friday for USNA. He loved NASS.

He's given a heads up to his teachers and evals and recommendations. He needs to get busy writing some essays!

Question:

He did well on the CFA at NASS:
Basketball throw 65'
Pull ups 15
Shuttle run 8.56
Sit ups 64
Push ups 54
Mile 6:43

That box is checked off on his USNA online application so I guess it was good enough? He believed it was an above average result among the kiddos at NASS. Question is - Does anyone know if the USAFA can receive the NASS CFA scores so it will work for both applications? He will email admissions if we can't find an answer on here. =)
Go to the CFA section in the "Instructions to Candidates". The process is described there. However, before he uses his USNA score, he may want to evaluate whether he really wants to submit those scores or practice and submit new scores to USAFA. If he submits his USNA scores, that will be his score with no chance for improvement. If the USNA scores are disqualifying, then he gets a second shot, but it is then just pass fail and it is noted that he failed the first CFA.
 
Go to the CFA section in the "Instructions to Candidates". The process is described there. However, before he uses his USNA score, he may want to evaluate whether he really wants to submit those scores or practice and submit new scores to USAFA. If he submits his USNA scores, that will be his score with no chance for improvement. If the USNA scores are disqualifying, then he gets a second shot, but it is then just pass fail and it is noted that he failed the first CFA.

In reading the packet he received this morning I found exactly what you just said - Instructions! "Note: Candidates who have taken the CFA as an applicant for the U.S. Military Academy, U.S. Naval Academy, or during a Summer Seminar program can ask them to email the results of the exam to USAFA_RRS.ORGMAIL@USAFA.EDU or fax us a copy of the exam. Our fax number is (719) 333-4200/3012. Please make sure you did well on the assessment by checking to see if your scores are close to the goals posted on page 9 before you have them sent. If you fail the first CFA, you will automatically be rescheduled for a second CFA. Please note that failure of the first CFA will be taken into account when your file is reviewed. If you fail the second CFA your file will be closed."

We will read the whole packet before posting additional topic questions. However, that said, I guess we are not clear on the CFA if you have a concern about NOT submitting these scores to the USAFA. There seems to be some ambiguity to it? Its pass/fail yes (you indicate it is above and is what we've been led to believe)? There are goal and max numbers but we've not located actual required numbers to "PASS". We thought that if the candidate passes then that box is checked off and its not something you are looking to improve - unlike an ACT/SAT score. At NASS when comparing his results to others and to the midshipman working the camp his scores were better than some of the guys who received appointments. He was basically told that his CFA results were good enough and he didn't need to do it again. And the BGO, in reviewing his packet during the interview, quickly said something like the CFA is complete, and moved on to things he needed to get done. I guess I would like for you to elaborate on your concern. Is it just that these scores are possibly passing for USNA but not passing for USAFA? Or is it actually something competitive and not pass fail such that he should strive to do better on the test? Thanks for the help!
 
Personally, I probably would have him re-do his CFA. 70 ft is usually the avg for bball throw so in that situation he is below. I don't recall the max. His sit ups and push ups are fine, but again, he is way below the max. If I recall correctly max for sit up is 95 and push up is 85. His mile run is strong, so is his pull ups.

Again, are they good? Yes, but in the end of the day, and impo you should never leave any points on the table regarding the WCS. CFA is a very small portion of the WCS, but it still is part of the score.

Nobody knows what the applicant pool or the class size for 2023 will look like, but what we all know is that ONLY 1 candidate per MOC slate will get CHARGED to that MoC, the rest will either fight it out on another slate (Pres, VP, Sen A, Sen B, Cong, ROTC) before they move onto the national pool.

I am just saying the what if scenario? What if he re-did it and now maxxed the pull ups at 18, and the sit ups, plus push ups, and increased the bball throw to 80? What if those max points moved his WCS by even 0.376? Maybe that is the difference from being number 1 and number 2 on that MoC slate.

Please do not being rushing forward thinking this might get him an LOA. USAFA is the stingiest of the SAs. Remember that you CANNOT get an appointment until you have a nomination. Typically the early fall appointments come from Pres. noms. MoCs usually don't start closing their applications until end of Sept.
~ You can send in your nom to the MoC in July, but if their instructions state something akin to must be postmarked by X date, than that is the date they will close their applications. No MoC that I know of does rolling nominations. They wait until that date stated and then they start reviewing the files.

Hope that helps.

Finally, remember that while you are doing plan A (SA), keep working on plan B (ROTC). ROTC scholarships are not like SA appointments. ROTC scholarships are the reverse. They start at the national level, not the state level. If 100% come from California and nobody from the remaining 49 states, well than so be it. They were the top from their WCS and that is all that they take into account, not they want to represent every state equally from the start and then move to the national level.
~ ROTC does the PFA. You CANNOT use the CFA. ----the requirements are different...no bball throw, 1 1/2 mile run. NROTC MO is also different than NROTC, AFROTC and AROTC.
 
Sorry to continue to question! You said above "CFA is a very small portion of the WCS, but it still is part of the score."

I guess this is exactly what we are trying to understand. We've read the CFA is pass/fail, and been lead to believe this based on what he was verbally told at NASS and indirectly by the BGO. Now I'm reading that you believe there are points applied to it such that you would want to improve even if you have a passing score. We would like to continue to receive some clarity on where you have found documentation that decisively informs you that it is indeed not pass/fail, but given scores such that it impacts the WCS. Please know I do realize I'm referencing USNA and I'm posting in the USAFA. DS needs clarity if there is a difference between the way the two academies treat the CFA. THANKS!!
 
DS received an email this morning and he logged on and found he was promoted to candidate status. Maybe they just roled out these promotions today (July 1)? He actually had his interview with the BGO last Friday for USNA. He loved NASS.

He's given a heads up to his teachers and evals and recommendations. He needs to get busy writing some essays!

Question:

He did well on the CFA at NASS:
Basketball throw 65'
Pull ups 15
Shuttle run 8.56
Sit ups 64
Push ups 54
Mile 6:43

That box is checked off on his USNA online application so I guess it was good enough? He believed it was an above average result among the kiddos at NASS. Question is - Does anyone know if the USAFA can receive the NASS CFA scores so it will work for both applications? He will email admissions if we can't find an answer on here. =)
Go to the CFA section in the "Instructions to Candidates". The process is described there. However, before he uses his USNA score, he may want to evaluate whether he really wants to submit those scores or practice and submit new scores to USAFA. If he submits his USNA scores, that will be his score with no chance for improvement. If the USNA scores are disqualifying, then he gets a second shot, but is is then just pass fail and it is noted that he failed the first CFA.
Go to the CFA section in the "Instructions to Candidates". The process is described there. However, before he uses his USNA score, he may want to evaluate whether he really wants to submit those scores or practice and submit new scores to USAFA. If he submits his USNA scores, that will be his score with no chance for improvement. If the USNA scores are disqualifying, then he gets a second shot, but it is then just pass fail and it is noted that he failed the first CFA.

In reading the packet he received this morning I found exactly what you just said - Instructions! "Note: Candidates who have taken the CFA as an applicant for the U.S. Military Academy, U.S. Naval Academy, or during a Summer Seminar program can ask them to email the results of the exam to USAFA_RRS.ORGMAIL@USAFA.EDU or fax us a copy of the exam. Our fax number is (719) 333-4200/3012. Please make sure you did well on the assessment by checking to see if your scores are close to the goals posted on page 9 before you have them sent. If you fail the first CFA, you will automatically be rescheduled for a second CFA. Please note that failure of the first CFA will be taken into account when your file is reviewed. If you fail the second CFA your file will be closed."

We will read the whole packet before posting additional topic questions. However, that said, I guess we are not clear on the CFA if you have a concern about NOT submitting these scores to the USAFA. There seems to be some ambiguity to it? Its pass/fail yes (you indicate it is above and is what we've been led to believe)? There are goal and max numbers but we've not located actual required numbers to "PASS". We thought that if the candidate passes then that box is checked off and its not something you are looking to improve - unlike an ACT/SAT score. At NASS when comparing his results to others and to the midshipman working the camp his scores were better than some of the guys who received appointments. He was basically told that his CFA results were good enough and he didn't need to do it again. And the BGO, in reviewing his packet during the interview, quickly said something like the CFA is complete, and moved on to things he needed to get done. I guess I would like for you to elaborate on your concern. Is it just that these scores are possibly passing for USNA but not passing for USAFA? Or is it actually something competitive and not pass fail such that he should strive to do better on the test? Thanks for the help!
The first CFA for USAFA is scored. You can do better, worse, or fail. The second CFA is only given if you fail the first. The second CFA is pass/Fail. You get no extra credit if you have to take the second CFA. The CFA is not, I repeat, not like the ACT/SAT. It is a cumulative loading event (read the instructions). It is not super scored. Also note that USMA, USNA, and USAFA all have different policies regarding the CFA. USMA goes so far as to require candidates to have videos of certain events.
 
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Go to the CFA section in the "Instructions to Candidates". The process is described there. However, before he uses his USNA score, he may want to evaluate whether he really wants to submit those scores or practice and submit new scores to USAFA. If he submits his USNA scores, that will be his score with no chance for improvement. If the USNA scores are disqualifying, then he gets a second shot, but it is then just pass fail and it is noted that he failed the first CFA.

In reading the packet he received this morning I found exactly what you just said - Instructions! "Note: Candidates who have taken the CFA as an applicant for the U.S. Military Academy, U.S. Naval Academy, or during a Summer Seminar program can ask them to email the results of the exam to USAFA_RRS.ORGMAIL@USAFA.EDU or fax us a copy of the exam. Our fax number is (719) 333-4200/3012. Please make sure you did well on the assessment by checking to see if your scores are close to the goals posted on page 9 before you have them sent. If you fail the first CFA, you will automatically be rescheduled for a second CFA. Please note that failure of the first CFA will be taken into account when your file is reviewed. If you fail the second CFA your file will be closed."

We will read the whole packet before posting additional topic questions. However, that said, I guess we are not clear on the CFA if you have a concern about NOT submitting these scores to the USAFA. There seems to be some ambiguity to it? Its pass/fail yes (you indicate it is above and is what we've been led to believe)? There are goal and max numbers but we've not located actual required numbers to "PASS". We thought that if the candidate passes then that box is checked off and its not something you are looking to improve - unlike an ACT/SAT score. At NASS when comparing his results to others and to the midshipman working the camp his scores were better than some of the guys who received appointments. He was basically told that his CFA results were good enough and he didn't need to do it again. And the BGO, in reviewing his packet during the interview, quickly said something like the CFA is complete, and moved on to things he needed to get done. I guess I would like for you to elaborate on your concern. Is it just that these scores are possibly passing for USNA but not passing for USAFA? Or is it actually something competitive and not pass fail such that he should strive to do better on the test? Thanks for the help!

The CFA is scored, however, a candidate must "pass" in order to receive an appointment. In the big scheme of things, the CFA may not account for a lot of points in their whole candidate scoring system. If he doesn't retake it and he doesn't get an appointment, then he may always wonder if that was the area where he gave up points. If he doesn't retake it and gets in then he knows it was good enough. It simply comes down to the strength of his total application package in comparison to his direct competition and it's hard to know what that really looks like. Each academy does have it's own "passing" standards and one may score it as a pass, while at another it could be a fail. Personally, I don't fear his scores would not pass at any of the academies.

A few questions you/he should ask yourself/himself are: 1) Will he really continue to work out and practice for the CFA than he has done so already in order to improve his score? 2) Is he highly involved in other competitive sports where he stands out? 3) Will the extra time he would spend on working out, be better spent studying for the ACT/SAT to improve his scores which could dramatically change his score? 4) What is the strength of the rest of his packet in regards to leadership, etc.? 5) Has your DS asked the BGO or the regional admissions rep what they they of his total packet and what they may recommend for improvement or where he may stand in comparison to peers? t may be too early in the cycle for the BGO, etc. to have a true picture, as some highly competitive candidates may not have identified themselves, yet. 6) Is he an underrepresented minority? 7) Is he being recruited for D1 sports? 8) If he does decide he wants to take it again to improve his score, at what point, will he feel his score is "good enough" to submit and stop stressing about it.

I would bet the vast majority of currently enrolled cadets and midshipmen here only took the CFA one time (maybe multiple if they attended multiple summer programs) and didn't keep busting their rumps to try to improve it, as they were doing the rest of the things they needed to do in life: apply for the ROTC scholarships, take their required fitness assessment, apply to all the civilian schools, apply for civilian scholarships, go on family summer vacation, have their 2-a-day summer sports practices, study for their school tests, study for the ACT/SAT tests and take them multiple times, work at their summer jobs, go to their homecoming dances............
 
Go to the CFA section in the "Instructions to Candidates". The process is described there. However, before he uses his USNA score, he may want to evaluate whether he really wants to submit those scores or practice and submit new scores to USAFA. If he submits his USNA scores, that will be his score with no chance for improvement. If the USNA scores are disqualifying, then he gets a second shot, but it is then just pass fail and it is noted that he failed the first CFA.

In reading the packet he received this morning I found exactly what you just said - Instructions! "Note: Candidates who have taken the CFA as an applicant for the U.S. Military Academy, U.S. Naval Academy, or during a Summer Seminar program can ask them to email the results of the exam to USAFA_RRS.ORGMAIL@USAFA.EDU or fax us a copy of the exam. Our fax number is (719) 333-4200/3012. Please make sure you did well on the assessment by checking to see if your scores are close to the goals posted on page 9 before you have them sent. If you fail the first CFA, you will automatically be rescheduled for a second CFA. Please note that failure of the first CFA will be taken into account when your file is reviewed. If you fail the second CFA your file will be closed."

We will read the whole packet before posting additional topic questions. However, that said, I guess we are not clear on the CFA if you have a concern about NOT submitting these scores to the USAFA. There seems to be some ambiguity to it? Its pass/fail yes (you indicate it is above and is what we've been led to believe)? There are goal and max numbers but we've not located actual required numbers to "PASS". We thought that if the candidate passes then that box is checked off and its not something you are looking to improve - unlike an ACT/SAT score. At NASS when comparing his results to others and to the midshipman working the camp his scores were better than some of the guys who received appointments. He was basically told that his CFA results were good enough and he didn't need to do it again. And the BGO, in reviewing his packet during the interview, quickly said something like the CFA is complete, and moved on to things he needed to get done. I guess I would like for you to elaborate on your concern. Is it just that these scores are possibly passing for USNA but not passing for USAFA? Or is it actually something competitive and not pass fail such that he should strive to do better on the test? Thanks for the help!

The CFA is scored, however, a candidate must "pass" in order to receive an appointment. In the big scheme of things, the CFA may not account for a lot of points in their whole candidate scoring system. If he doesn't retake it and he doesn't get an appointment, then he may always wonder if that was the area where he gave up points. If he doesn't retake it and gets in then he knows it was good enough. It simply comes down to the strength of his total application package in comparison to his direct competition and it's hard to know what that really looks like. Each academy does have it's own "passing" standards and one may score it as a pass, while at another it could be a fail. Personally, I don't fear his scores would not pass at any of the academies.

A few questions you/he should ask yourself/himself are: 1) Will he really continue to work out and practice for the CFA than he has done so already in order to improve his score? 2) Is he highly involved in other competitive sports where he stands out? 3) Will the extra time he would spend on working out, be better spent studying for the ACT/SAT to improve his scores which could dramatically change his score? 4) What is the strength of the rest of his packet in regards to leadership, etc.? 5) Has your DS asked the BGO or the regional admissions rep what they they of his total packet and what they may recommend for improvement or where he may stand in comparison to peers? t may be too early in the cycle for the BGO, etc. to have a true picture, as some highly competitive candidates may not have identified themselves, yet. 6) Is he an underrepresented minority? 7) Is he being recruited for D1 sports? 8) If he does decide he wants to take it again to improve his score, at what point, will he feel his score is "good enough" to submit and stop stressing about it.

I would bet the vast majority of currently enrolled cadets and midshipmen here only took the CFA one time (maybe multiple if they attended multiple summer programs) and didn't keep busting their rumps to try to improve it, as they were doing the rest of the things they needed to do in life: apply for the ROTC scholarships, take their required fitness assessment, apply to all the civilian schools, apply for civilian scholarships, go on family summer vacation, have their 2-a-day summer sports practices, study for their school tests, study for the ACT/SAT tests and take them multiple times, work at their summer jobs, go to their homecoming dances............
The goals are in the Instructions to Candidates. If you are at or above them you pass. If you are below--well you just don't know. The SAs intentionally do not posts mins. Who wants someone who mins out?
 
Pima nails it. Has DS done his absolute best on the CFA? If not, then practice and do it again. Don’t think because others got appointments with similar numbers that DS will too. You don’t know what the rest of their package looked like. It’s so early in the game. Do NOT leave points on the table, whether it’s CFA or grades or test scores or anything else.
 
Thank you all for your replies! We do not disagree with any responses. We are still looking for documentation by an academy that indicates that the CFA is not just pass/fail, but points are somehow scored such that the better a candidate does would impact their WCS. Several of you know have said it, and no offense.... but how do you know this?

I did not plan to outline his application strength in detail, as I see other candidates/parents posting up all the stats and asking for opinions - which - no one can assure them of anything and just comment on what they see they can improve upon. Which is not what we are looking for in this posting =) And we've read many of these postings and responses so we think we have a decent idea. But since you did kinda "go there" I will share the following:
SAT 1460 (700 ela 760 math)
2nd/115 class rank (made a 97 in Calculus his junior year as he was ahead of his peers in math)
Varsity letter in baseball and track and cross country
Band percussion section leader
Math Tutor job at Mathnasium >10hrs/wk
Mathmatics UIL Area participant

He is a white male from an upper middle class family. No military family history.

So to summarize, he's a math gifted smart white boy from rural Central Texas who's athletic (but not overly so - mostly just fast), somewhat shy so leadership is weak but at least not nonexistent, who has aspirations of being an astronaut (I've already told him he is not allowed to go to Mars). He is obsessed with Elan Musk and SpaceX. He self teaches math via youtube videos that are barely in English because the math is so complicated. He also endlessly listens to podcasts and other youtube channels produced by super smart people so to have a conversation with him regarding just about anything (if you can get him talking) you quickly realize he is fascinating with the wealth of knowledge he has accumulated in a mere 18 years. He's a cool kid. But I'm his mom. Hopefully he will be comfortable and engaging in interviews such that those with influence will see his potential based on his passion.

He/we are not illusioned to think he is is in the front of the line for an LOA. His resume just isn't strong enough. But he is not just a super smart kid with nothing else on the resume. The BGO seemed very impressed last week so that's good. Hopefully his recommendations and evaluations also are very strong. The other good thing is I don't think that our congressional district is as competitive as others have to face (TX-17).

Plan B is in place. Several options to chose from if he does not get into an Academy. Applying to Rice University, for one. Fall back is Texas A&M Corps of Cadets ROTC program.

If you've made it to here thanks for reading!
 
Beware Texas is very competitive for MoC noms. It is one of the states that we say they (MoCs) spread the wealth. IOWS, it is not uncommon to get only ONE nom to ONE SA because they have so many applicants.
~ Typically in a spread the wealth state, the MoCs will talk and try not to duplicate nominations for any candidate. I have seen candidates from TX get 2 noms, but they are not the norm, the avg is 1 nom.

It is important for you to understand this for 1 reason. Your DS is interested in both USAFA and USNA. MoCs will ask them to rank their selection. If Sen A. comes back and gives a nom to USAFA, and Sen B, plus the Cong. gives no nom, even though he ranked USNA as his #1, is he going to be okay with no nom to USNA?
~ Think about it long and hard. This is not a 4 yr option like college, it is 9 yrs when you add in Active Duty requirement.
 
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