USNA Culture

T

The Blue Baron

Banned
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Sep 5, 2018
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119
Hello.
I am deliberating between USNA and USAFA. I enjoy the culture of both branches and also have as my set desire to be Pilot. Supposing I'll become Uber competitive for a pilot slot and get it, what are the differences between both Academy cultures? Or at least the highlights of USNA.
I already saw the movies, read the websites and read all the posts in this forum regarding such(ie USNA vs USAFA and its variants) and in other websites and it did not satisfy me.
Furthermore, I understand that such a decision is not to be taken lightly.
 
Add this into your comparative analysis: if you do not get an aviation slot, are there other officer specialties which you could see yourself doing? Things do happen - something may DQ you while at an SA from aviation.

The commissioning programs, including the SAs, are simply way stations to active duty in the Service itself. Reverse engineer your research. Look at the individual Service mission, culture, available career paths. Rack and stack. Work backward to the commissioning source that best suits you. In-person visiting and spending time with current cadets and mids is invaluable.
 
Naval Aviation culture > Air Force culture. In my humble but probably ill-informed and biased opinion
 
Capt MJ said:
-person visiting and spending time with current cadets and mids is invaluable.
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I do have an Idea, but how you suggest I do that, supposing I already did the rest of what you mentioned and here I am ?
For the former : with the USNA tours you don't even enter any "real" buildings, as per what page says ; You tour it in a car.
As for the latter : One Word : How ?
 
Are you a high school senior who has applied to both SA's? They offer candidate visit weekends where you are assigned a mid (usually a Plebe) and you become their drag, meaning they drag you around with them to classes, company stuff, athletic practices, etc...And yes, you get to enter "real" buildings. Heck you even get to experience the divine pleasure of sleeping in Bancroft Hall. You do not get offered a CVW unless you are an official candidate. If you are anything other than a high school senior or college re-applicant, you're not an official candidate yet. I think they open up a page for Summer Seminar applicants around 1 January and applying for that gets you in the system as a potential candidate.
As for different cultures, it's hard to say. My Uncle was an Air Force pilot and an instructor at USAFA. My husband was a Navy pilot. Listening to the 2 of them over the years, I have the impression that in the Air Force it's like a 2 class system. You are either a pilot, or you're not. Navy offers more areas for service I believe, in the event that you are not selected for pilot or you see other areas that may be a better fit for you and the Navy. My ensign did not pursue avation and is so far really thrilled and challenged with his community. His roommate at USNA wanted aviation forever and he was selected, but was told during commissioning week he was receiving a medical DQ and he's currently a SWO
 
It would really be something if it were that easy.

I will pick...Air Force! Okay here's my application. When do I report?
 
Good to see this guy banned....take a look at the USAFA board if you want to see why.
That being said, its a good question for the others that are looking at both USNA and USAFA because they want to fly. A couple of my thoughts:

1) CAPT MJ hits it on the head when she questions what happens if you don't fly -- USNA has many more alternative service selection opportunities, most of which are line officers with great career prospects and opportunities for command.

2) HTHP37 also points out that there are two classes of individuals in the Air Force , those with Wings and those without. Sure, there are plenty of opportunities for non-aviators, but how many lead to Command opportunities ?

By the way, both of these observations were discussed during my BGO interview almost 40 years ago, and still come up frequently in my interviews now.

With respect to culture , my observation based upon 6 months doing Nav training at an Air Force base, and a couple joint operation opportunities, is that the biggest difference is that Air Force does everything by the book, ie. if it isn't in the book, you don't do it; where the Navy culture was more of a "if it's not prohibited,then its okay." Air Force seemed much more heavily regulated . I don't know where I heard this theory, perhaps in a history class at USNA, but in the old days of sailing ships, Naval Captains were sent out to see on long deployments with only broad orders and a lot of discretion on how to carry out their mission, while the Army (and their spin off the Air Force), which had better communication with its commanders in the field (albeit, often lengthy delays when in Indian Country), had a much tighter command structure. Hence, the Naval Officer got used to making independent decisions based upon broad policy.
 
Agree with Old Navy. I spent a good chunk of my time working with the USAF. I actually lived and worked with the Air Force a lot. I always appreciated the nice base I got to live on the few days I was around before I went down range. The SAs are a sub culture of their overall service component. You will spend more time in your service than at a SA. You should focus on the service first. I also agree in looking at the what you would do if you don’t fly. The USN has a broad range of items you can do as a line officer. Each community has its own traditions and cultures too. First and foremost the Navy is a sea going organization. If you can’t see yourself at sea, then don’t go to USNA. Even Marines go to sea. The Air Force has a lot of career fields also, to include research and acquisitions. The Navy has these too, but you can’t do that out the gate.

I also agree 100% with Old Navy on the differences of decision making between the services. The Navy and Marine Corps expects you to lead day 1 and make critical decisions. Know the Commanders intent and go forward. Make decisions, stand by them. You are the one who will be held accountable. I always felt the response from an Army or Air Force Officer was let me go ask my sergeant, I need to check the regs or run that up the chain. I am not saying this to bash the services or talk badly, it is purely my observations. One type of culture might work better for one person than another.
 
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@NavyHoops and @Old Navy BGO, that’s a very interesting contrast that you highlight between Navy and Air Force.

Reminds me of the contrast between the main legal philosophies of Western Europe. Under Napoleonic law, you can only do something if it’s explicitly allowed. Under Anglo-Saxon law, you can do something as long as it’s not explicitly prohibited. The Navy’s approach seems more akin to Anglo-Saxon traditions. The context of a ship at sea, operating autonomously and independently, makes great sense.
 
The Blue Baron said:
Hello.
I am deliberating between USNA and USAFA. I enjoy the culture of both branches and also have as my set desire to be Pilot. Supposing I'll become Uber competitive for a pilot slot and get it, what are the differences between both Academy cultures? Or at least the highlights of USNA.
I already saw the movies, read the websites and read all the posts in this forum regarding such(ie USNA vs USAFA and its variants) and in other websites and it did not satisfy me.
Furthermore, I understand that such a decision is not to be taken lightly.
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Did you post the same question on the USAFA forum? Just curious if you got the same or similar answers there?
 
If I remember correctly under Napoleonic Law you were guilty until proven innocent. In old Louisiana days you had to know Napoleonic Law to pass the State Barr. It was probably a history test.
 
AF6872 said:
If I remember correctly under Napoleonic Law you were guilty until proven innocent. In old Louisiana days you had to know Napoleonic Law to pass the State Barr. It was probably a history test.
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\

Most, perhaps all except Louisiana, operate under the old English Common Law (to the extent not addressed by express statutes). Louisiana is the exception, and still incorporates the old French Civil Code, which incoporates many of the Napoleonic Code principles. I don't practice in Louisiana, so really don't know what the difference is.
 
The Blue Baron said:
Hello.
I am deliberating between USNA and USAFA. I enjoy the culture of both branches and also have as my set desire to be Pilot. Supposing I'll become Uber competitive for a pilot slot and get it, what are the differences between both Academy cultures? Or at least the highlights of USNA.
I already saw the movies, read the websites and read all the posts in this forum regarding such(ie USNA vs USAFA and its variants) and in other websites and it did not satisfy me.
Furthermore, I understand that such a decision is not to be taken lightly.
Click to expand...

Having attended the Naval Academy, I can't really can't speak much toward the differences in the cultures. Compared to civilian universities, all the academies have much more in common than differences. So, if I were you, I would be much more focused on whether you want to serve in the Air Force or the Navy. Ultimately, that is the "culture" that's going to have a greater impact on your life.

Let me just say this ... culturally speaking, in the Air Force, you're either a pilot or you're not. Nobody will ever come right out and say it, but there are the pilots and everybody else. If you're not a pilot, you're somewhat a second class citizen. Most of all the highest ranking officers in the Air Force come from pilot backgrounds.

In the Navy, that is far from the case. Surface Warfare, Submarines, Aviation and even the Marine Corps are all respectable communities with career advancement readily available. Nobody in those communities are considered "second class" citizens. If you're dead set on flying and you're at the Air Force Academy ... and if something comes up that precludes you from flying (a not uncommon occurrence) ... you are going to quickly come to the horrifying realization, "Uh, what now?" That problems doesn't exist at the Naval Academy.

As I tell candidates who are applying to all the service academy, the Naval Academy is the only one that has a little bit of what all the others have. You like getting dirty and crawling through the mud? We have the Marine Corps! You want to fly? We have plenty of aircraft in the Navy! Plus we have ships and submarines. There's simply more varied opportunities.
 
Good advice except when you got to the part about the Naval Academy being the only academy that has a "little bit of what all the others have." The often overlooked Merchant Marine Academy has all that plus many more options that are unique. Just sayin'.
 
DS is Merchant Marine and graduate of one of the State Merchant Marine Academies and also Naval Reserve Officer. There are many ways to your goal. He just got back from Guam ,Siapan and then San Diego for USN training. Tough duty. Now three months off in Tampa before shipping out again.
 
Haven't read the above posts thoroughly, but do keep in mind that although your time in the service will be longer than the time you spend at the SA you choose to go to, the SA is what will form your perspective and leadership as you enter the service. Find a place that you feel like you will grow in.
 
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