So I am completely finished with my usna application, but I recently logged onto DoDMERB to check my medical status. It appears that I have a DQ under D227.60, which is "history of uncorrected herniated nucleus pulposus associated with any treatment, symptoms, or activity limitations." I had a bulging disc in my back a year and a half ago, but havent had any issues since. I guess my question is should I be concerned about this? I play football and baseball and havent had any significant issues, will I get a waiver for this or am I going to get disqualified?
DoDMERB Concern
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Old Navy BGO
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No one here can answer questions about YOUR medical condition. There may be other candidates or parents that had a similar issue, but every case is different. You are listed as DQ ..if the condition is waiverable, DODMERB will tell you what you need to do to be considered for a waiver. Be patient, the USNA (and presumably other Service Academies) don't evaluate waivers until they determine you are competitive for Admission.
My DS had the same issue with bulging disk from weight lifting. He never need treatment after initial diagnosis and was back playing football that next week and lacrosse and power lifting. We found a great MD who was a West Point graduate and specialized in back injuries. He did a complete evaluation, reviewed X-rays etc..and determined that my DS could complete the demands of the Army. He wrote a great letter of recommendation from his findings and my DS received his waiver and is now an MSII.
Your situation is encouraging. Our family is in the same situation. Probably would not have found out about the bulging disk if DS would have rested or went a little lighter on the power cleans for a couple of days. Since he told his coach at school that his back was a little sore, the school required him to get checked. Saw doc on the 11th, had MRI read on the 17th. He was released to full, unrestricted activity for the school's peace of mind the same day he had the MRI read. This release was in his packet along with a second release by the same physician as requested when we were asked for remedial. He never missed football practice and took it easy on the power cleans, but did the other lifts. He is and has been pain free ever since.
Motorguy, outside of the physician writing the letter, were there any other steps taken to help convey how this "issue" was a nonissue for your son to get the waiver? Any advice you can provide would be most appreciated.
No the letter and assessment of this doctor, along with the weight he carried from his rank and experience was all we needed. Without his help I truly believe my DS would not have received his wavier. I tried to send you a private message but to haven't posted enough yet.
Thank you, Motorguy! Since my last post, my DS received a waiver from USNA. He is awaiting a waiver decision from USAFA. We are new to all of this, but the information everyone has shared has been invaluable. Thanks to everyone for the advice and encouragement I have seen on these forums.
USMAisgreat
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Motorguy I could use the contact for this doc - son currently facing similar situation but already at USMA
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Again, the real answer is:
Go to https://DoDMERB.tricare.osd.mil
“Questions about the process.”
Paragraphs 11-12; 15-19; 20
Everything else is pure speculation, especially with this type issue. Case-by-case basis
Go to https://DoDMERB.tricare.osd.mil
“Questions about the process.”
Paragraphs 11-12; 15-19; 20
Everything else is pure speculation, especially with this type issue. Case-by-case basis
Old Navy BGO
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1. In most conditions that have been treated, we want the actual provider medical records. A provider’s license legally authorizes them to treat and document. We take little stock in letters that are written by providers.
2. More often than not, not always, case-by-case basis, if an applicant needs to convince DoDMERB, we will err on the side of caution (e.g. head injuries) and apply the DQ. This is NOT to pass the buck, moreover, it is designed to permit the investing agency, SA(s)/ROTC programs(s) to render the risk assessment. NO APPLICANT, NONE, NEVER, will ever be denied entrance to an SA/ROTC program based “solely” on a DODMERB DQ, regardless of what letters you may receive.
3. Independent results of exams will be considered by DoDMERB and medical waiver authorities, but no guarantees of decisions based on those results.
4. Fundamentally, when you “search out a particular doctor” or “hire” someone, they are being hired to be an advocate.
5. Folks may disagree with that approach, but DoDMERB is the “honest broker” in the process. Our mission is to screen the results of medical history, medical exam, in accordance with the medical standards in DoDI 6130.03 (google it) and determine if an applicants MEETS standards (aka Qualified) or does NOT MEET standards (aka Disqualified). Unlike the applicant, we are not “vested” in the outcome. We try and get to YES, but will render NO, if the results of our evaluation steers us in that direction.
6. A medical waiver authorities’ evaluation is INDEPENDENT from DoDMERB...in every shape, form, and fashion. They can and will request additional medical information (AMI) {tests, consults, documents, questionnaire, etc} [aka”remedials”].
7. *****Finally, I harken all applicants with questions to go to https://dodmerb.tricare.osd.mil and hit the tab “questions about the process.” Especially those parents that may be helicopter, OSPREY, snowplow, or bull dozer parents. Paragraph 4 is specifically designed for you
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2. More often than not, not always, case-by-case basis, if an applicant needs to convince DoDMERB, we will err on the side of caution (e.g. head injuries) and apply the DQ. This is NOT to pass the buck, moreover, it is designed to permit the investing agency, SA(s)/ROTC programs(s) to render the risk assessment. NO APPLICANT, NONE, NEVER, will ever be denied entrance to an SA/ROTC program based “solely” on a DODMERB DQ, regardless of what letters you may receive.
3. Independent results of exams will be considered by DoDMERB and medical waiver authorities, but no guarantees of decisions based on those results.
4. Fundamentally, when you “search out a particular doctor” or “hire” someone, they are being hired to be an advocate.
5. Folks may disagree with that approach, but DoDMERB is the “honest broker” in the process. Our mission is to screen the results of medical history, medical exam, in accordance with the medical standards in DoDI 6130.03 (google it) and determine if an applicants MEETS standards (aka Qualified) or does NOT MEET standards (aka Disqualified). Unlike the applicant, we are not “vested” in the outcome. We try and get to YES, but will render NO, if the results of our evaluation steers us in that direction.
6. A medical waiver authorities’ evaluation is INDEPENDENT from DoDMERB...in every shape, form, and fashion. They can and will request additional medical information (AMI) {tests, consults, documents, questionnaire, etc} [aka”remedials”].
7. *****Finally, I harken all applicants with questions to go to https://dodmerb.tricare.osd.mil and hit the tab “questions about the process.” Especially those parents that may be helicopter, OSPREY, snowplow, or bull dozer parents. Paragraph 4 is specifically designed for you
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Did you mean to say "We take little stock in letters that are not written by provider" ?
does that mean that you do not place much value on letters from others, such as coaches etc who have observed a candidate over a long period of time - especially for some of the issues where the standard is "does not interfere with normal function" etc.
thanks for the clarification
Old Navy BGO
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1. In most conditions that have been treated, we want the actual provider medical records. A provider’s license legally authorizes them to treat and document. We take little stock in letters that are written by providers.
2. More often than not, not always, case-by-case basis, if an applicant needs to convince DoDMERB, we will err on the side of caution (e.g. head injuries) and apply the DQ. This is NOT to pass the buck, moreover, it is designed to permit the investing agency, SA(s)/ROTC programs(s) to render the risk assessment. NO APPLICANT, NONE, NEVER, will ever be denied entrance to an SA/ROTC program based “solely” on a DODMERB DQ, regardless of what letters you may receive.
3. Independent results of exams will be considered by DoDMERB and medical waiver authorities, but no guarantees of decisions based on those results.
4. Fundamentally, when you “search out a particular doctor” or “hire” someone, they are being hired to be an advocate.
5. Folks may disagree with that approach, but DoDMERB is the “honest broker” in the process. Our mission is to screen the results of medical history, medical exam, in accordance with the medical standards in DoDI 6130.03 (google it) and determine if an applicants MEETS standards (aka Qualified) or does NOT MEET standards (aka Disqualified). Unlike the applicant, we are not “vested” in the outcome. We try and get to YES, but will render NO, if the results of our evaluation steers us in that direction.
6. A medical waiver authorities’ evaluation is INDEPENDENT from DoDMERB...in every shape, form, and fashion. They can and will request additional medical information (AMI) {tests, consults, documents, questionnaire, etc} [aka”remedials”].
7. *****Finally, I harken all applicants with questions to go to https://dodmerb.tricare.osd.mil and hit the tab “questions about the process.” Especially those parents that may be helicopter, OSPREY, snowplow, or bull dozer parents. Paragraph 4 is specifically designed for you
Mr. Mullen ..thank you for your response.. and participation on this Forum. I have never read the DODMERB FAQ, but they confirm much of what I have seen or heard over the years. USNA BGO's are cautioned to steer clear of Medical issues (for HIPAA reasons), but your FAQ are very clear and well written, and answer about 99% of the DODMERB questions that come up . I will certainly refer candidates to the FAQ if questions come up .. although they should already be aware. This should be included in CAPT MJ's standing admonition to read the USNA Admissions website , including all drop downs ,etc. The DODMERB FAQ should actually be linked into the USNA Admissions FAQand perhaps a link posted in a Sticky at the top of the DODMERB Forum here...that would preempt a lot of the questions we see here.. (PS - I heartily endorse Paragraph 4 !)
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A6E Dad:
We take very little stock in “letters” (vice the actual clinical—-legal—-medical records) written “by” providers. Plenty of examples, but the best/worst (depending on your perspective) case was an applicant that was treated since birth for asthma by a pulmonologist professor (friend of the family) @ a major university. The records were replete with diagnosis/plans/treatment for 17 years. When DQ, the Doc wrote a letter that started with “I’ve known XXXX his whole life. He has never had a problem with physical performance due to any respiratory problems or asthma.” That was a complete contradiction of all his medical records/diagnosis/plans/treatment.
Non-medical letters are ONLY important if DoDMERB or the waiver authority request these. Again, case-by-case basis vs “a general principal that applies to all.” An applicant who breaks their arm in Aug of the year prior to entering an SA, will in all likelihood, heal and recover in time to be qualified or waived to be admitted the next year. The applicant who has the exact same break 2 weeks before entering an SA, will NOT be admitted.
We take very little stock in “letters” (vice the actual clinical—-legal—-medical records) written “by” providers. Plenty of examples, but the best/worst (depending on your perspective) case was an applicant that was treated since birth for asthma by a pulmonologist professor (friend of the family) @ a major university. The records were replete with diagnosis/plans/treatment for 17 years. When DQ, the Doc wrote a letter that started with “I’ve known XXXX his whole life. He has never had a problem with physical performance due to any respiratory problems or asthma.” That was a complete contradiction of all his medical records/diagnosis/plans/treatment.
Non-medical letters are ONLY important if DoDMERB or the waiver authority request these. Again, case-by-case basis vs “a general principal that applies to all.” An applicant who breaks their arm in Aug of the year prior to entering an SA, will in all likelihood, heal and recover in time to be qualified or waived to be admitted the next year. The applicant who has the exact same break 2 weeks before entering an SA, will NOT be admitted.
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Mr. Mullen, thank you for the clarification, what you said makes perfect sense.
I guess I was conflating "letter" with "additional info". I get the point about a letter, which is not part of the official record and not subject to the legal and/or professional standards and requirements.
However, in the case of records that are somewhat ambiguous or lacking detail (ie. detailed treatment record for one issue includes some tangential info about another issue, which happens to be disqualifying). In that case, there is very little detail about the secondary issue but there is enough to assume that the dq exists. In that case, as you said, DODMERB tends to err on the side of caution and rule it a DQ and let the SA look further into it.
In that sort of case, would it be advisable for candidates be proactive and show the 6130.03 standard to the doctor and ask that the record be updated with any additional details (perhaps based on addi'l exam or testing) that are available, to make it more clear whether or not the dq'ing condition actually exists?
I think the standard answer would be "if DODMERB or SA wants or needs anything they will ask for it", but I think it's also true that DODMERB will always accept any new medical info that might be relevant. In some situations, it seems that if the add'l info isn't sent it may never be asked for and without it a waiver cannot be supported.
Thank you for everything that you and your team do for the candidates to all the SAs and ROTC programs. I know you respond to countless emails every day and go way out of your way to interact directly
I guess I was conflating "letter" with "additional info". I get the point about a letter, which is not part of the official record and not subject to the legal and/or professional standards and requirements.
However, in the case of records that are somewhat ambiguous or lacking detail (ie. detailed treatment record for one issue includes some tangential info about another issue, which happens to be disqualifying). In that case, there is very little detail about the secondary issue but there is enough to assume that the dq exists. In that case, as you said, DODMERB tends to err on the side of caution and rule it a DQ and let the SA look further into it.
In that sort of case, would it be advisable for candidates be proactive and show the 6130.03 standard to the doctor and ask that the record be updated with any additional details (perhaps based on addi'l exam or testing) that are available, to make it more clear whether or not the dq'ing condition actually exists?
I think the standard answer would be "if DODMERB or SA wants or needs anything they will ask for it", but I think it's also true that DODMERB will always accept any new medical info that might be relevant. In some situations, it seems that if the add'l info isn't sent it may never be asked for and without it a waiver cannot be supported.
Thank you for everything that you and your team do for the candidates to all the SAs and ROTC programs. I know you respond to countless emails every day and go way out of your way to interact directly
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Recoveringhelicoptermom
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Shout out to Mr Mullen who deserves employee of the year (decade?) for his dedication, humor and knowledge of all things Dodmerb. Laughing hysterically at your last paragraph!1. In most conditions that have been treated, we want the actual provider medical records. A provider’s license legally authorizes them to treat and document. We take little stock in letters that are written by providers.
2. More often than not, not always, case-by-case basis, if an applicant needs to convince DoDMERB, we will err on the side of caution (e.g. head injuries) and apply the DQ. This is NOT to pass the buck, moreover, it is designed to permit the investing agency, SA(s)/ROTC programs(s) to render the risk assessment. NO APPLICANT, NONE, NEVER, will ever be denied entrance to an SA/ROTC program based “solely” on a DODMERB DQ, regardless of what letters you may receive.
3. Independent results of exams will be considered by DoDMERB and medical waiver authorities, but no guarantees of decisions based on those results.
4. Fundamentally, when you “search out a particular doctor” or “hire” someone, they are being hired to be an advocate.
5. Folks may disagree with that approach, but DoDMERB is the “honest broker” in the process. Our mission is to screen the results of medical history, medical exam, in accordance with the medical standards in DoDI 6130.03 (google it) and determine if an applicants MEETS standards (aka Qualified) or does NOT MEET standards (aka Disqualified). Unlike the applicant, we are not “vested” in the outcome. We try and get to YES, but will render NO, if the results of our evaluation steers us in that direction.
6. A medical waiver authorities’ evaluation is INDEPENDENT from DoDMERB...in every shape, form, and fashion. They can and will request additional medical information (AMI) {tests, consults, documents, questionnaire, etc} [aka”remedials”].
7. *****Finally, I harken all applicants with questions to go to https://dodmerb.tricare.osd.mil and hit the tab “questions about the process.” Especially those parents that may be helicopter, OSPREY, snowplow, or bull dozer parents. Paragraph 4 is specifically designed for you
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Hmmmmmm, as the infamous Johnnie Cochran (younger folks, Google him) said "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit." But, I'm just "guessin" here, that your handle kind of gives you away AND "recovering" is in the eyes of the beholder 
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OMG --that wasn't that long ago, was it ?
Memphis9489
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It's surprising how many candidates basically eliminate themselves just by checking a box on a medical questionnaire. The military is a bureaucracy just like most large organizations. And, the medical branch in the military is its own bureaucracy.
Here's my advice to candidates who no longer have a condition that they once had a long time ago - and is no longer an issue: DON'T CHECK THAT BOX! Make the doctors do their job and determine what conditions you have or don't have. Don't do their job for them.
Did you once eat a peanut and break out in a rash when your were 4 yrs old? And, have you been eating peanuts ever since without any problems? Then, don't mention it! QUESTION: Have you ever had any allergic reaction to any food product? ANSWER: No!
I know that sounds a bit duplicitous but, if you truly don't have any symptoms of this ancient malady - don't put yourself into the medical, bureaucratic waiver machine.
I had twins attend the academy some time ago. At the time of their DODMERB medical examination they were both wearing braces on their teeth. They brought with them a signed letter from their orthodontist saying the treatment was progressing successfully and that the braces were scheduled to be removed in June - prior to I-Day. No big deal, right? I'm sure this must happen with a certain degree of regularity. So - what happens? One of my twins is medically disqualified for the braces and the other is not. They had their medical exams on different days and had different personnel evaluating them and filling out the forms. This is the essence of a bureaucracy - mistakes and inconsistency. Of course, we eventually got this rectified but it took a lot of phone calls. This is the type of crazy stuff that happens in a medical bureaucracy. They are noted for inconsistencies and mistakes. Again - make them disqualify you. Don't disqualify yourself.
Here's my advice to candidates who no longer have a condition that they once had a long time ago - and is no longer an issue: DON'T CHECK THAT BOX! Make the doctors do their job and determine what conditions you have or don't have. Don't do their job for them.
Did you once eat a peanut and break out in a rash when your were 4 yrs old? And, have you been eating peanuts ever since without any problems? Then, don't mention it! QUESTION: Have you ever had any allergic reaction to any food product? ANSWER: No!
I know that sounds a bit duplicitous but, if you truly don't have any symptoms of this ancient malady - don't put yourself into the medical, bureaucratic waiver machine.
I had twins attend the academy some time ago. At the time of their DODMERB medical examination they were both wearing braces on their teeth. They brought with them a signed letter from their orthodontist saying the treatment was progressing successfully and that the braces were scheduled to be removed in June - prior to I-Day. No big deal, right? I'm sure this must happen with a certain degree of regularity. So - what happens? One of my twins is medically disqualified for the braces and the other is not. They had their medical exams on different days and had different personnel evaluating them and filling out the forms. This is the essence of a bureaucracy - mistakes and inconsistency. Of course, we eventually got this rectified but it took a lot of phone calls. This is the type of crazy stuff that happens in a medical bureaucracy. They are noted for inconsistencies and mistakes. Again - make them disqualify you. Don't disqualify yourself.
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Being the politically correct and fact based man that I am, I respectfully disagree with Memphis9489, because the suggestions presented are totally incorrect/ill-advised. One of the things about a forum is sometimes people speculate, pontificate, or give personal opinions ,that are not based in fact. This may be misleading and not only potentially cause disenrollment procedures, but may also involve recoupment in some ROTC programs.
FACT # 1a:
21. “History of….” - There are many standards that are NOT related to an applicant’s current medical status, current ability to function, or prognosis for the future. However, these are significant enough to warrant additional scrutiny by the Service where the applicant has applied. Examples regarding knees:
1) This refers to current only - “Current or loose foreign body in the knee joint ”(does NOT meet medical accession standards).
2) This refers to a history of - “History of uncorrected anterior or posterior cruciate ligament injury” (does NOT meet medical accession standards).
FACT #1b = The standards that are specified as "history of," are done so after a great deal of deliberation and approval by the Consultants and Specialty leaders of the Services ; the Surgeons Generals; the Service 3 star Personnel Officers; and the Service Secretary for Manpower and Reserve affairs. The current DoDI 6130.03, Medical Standards for Appointment, Enlistment, and Induction in the Military Services had to be approved by the Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness (@ the time The Hon. Robert Wilke, now the Secretary of the VA.)
FACT 2:
I am personally responsible for the Ides of March (15 March) theory that we employ at DoDMERB.
a. If DoDMERB gets a file in late or we feel it will eat up potential waiver authority review time, we will DQ after the 15th of March to allow the waiver review folks to conduct their deliberations and request what they NEED to render a waiver decision. Whereas, in September, we will request the remedials of the applicant to try and get them to a straight up Qualified status.
b. With respect to specifically to: "e. Current orthodontic appliances (mounted or removable, e.g., Invisalign®) for continued active treatment unless: (1) The appliance is permanent or removable retainer(s); or (2) An orthodontist (civilian or military) provides documentation that: (a) Active orthodontic treatment will be completed before being sworn in to active duty; or (b) All orthodontic treatment will be completed before beginning active duty.
1. We have moved that to 31 May, if the appliances have not been removed yet. The documentation might state they'll be removed prior to R & I Days, but there have been many cases over the years, where that did not occur.
2. We avoid surprises for applicants and Academies alike that will end up badly.
FINAL FACT 3:
1. Don't disqualify yourself, is correct. But also don't employ "truth elongation" or concealment, because that "may" be a reason for a turn-back; separation; disenrollment; and in the case of ROTC, possible recoupment.
FACT # 1a:
21. “History of….” - There are many standards that are NOT related to an applicant’s current medical status, current ability to function, or prognosis for the future. However, these are significant enough to warrant additional scrutiny by the Service where the applicant has applied. Examples regarding knees:
1) This refers to current only - “Current or loose foreign body in the knee joint ”(does NOT meet medical accession standards).
2) This refers to a history of - “History of uncorrected anterior or posterior cruciate ligament injury” (does NOT meet medical accession standards).
FACT #1b = The standards that are specified as "history of," are done so after a great deal of deliberation and approval by the Consultants and Specialty leaders of the Services ; the Surgeons Generals; the Service 3 star Personnel Officers; and the Service Secretary for Manpower and Reserve affairs. The current DoDI 6130.03, Medical Standards for Appointment, Enlistment, and Induction in the Military Services had to be approved by the Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness (@ the time The Hon. Robert Wilke, now the Secretary of the VA.)
FACT 2:
I am personally responsible for the Ides of March (15 March) theory that we employ at DoDMERB.
a. If DoDMERB gets a file in late or we feel it will eat up potential waiver authority review time, we will DQ after the 15th of March to allow the waiver review folks to conduct their deliberations and request what they NEED to render a waiver decision. Whereas, in September, we will request the remedials of the applicant to try and get them to a straight up Qualified status.
b. With respect to specifically to: "e. Current orthodontic appliances (mounted or removable, e.g., Invisalign®) for continued active treatment unless: (1) The appliance is permanent or removable retainer(s); or (2) An orthodontist (civilian or military) provides documentation that: (a) Active orthodontic treatment will be completed before being sworn in to active duty; or (b) All orthodontic treatment will be completed before beginning active duty.
1. We have moved that to 31 May, if the appliances have not been removed yet. The documentation might state they'll be removed prior to R & I Days, but there have been many cases over the years, where that did not occur.
2. We avoid surprises for applicants and Academies alike that will end up badly.
FINAL FACT 3:
1. Don't disqualify yourself, is correct. But also don't employ "truth elongation" or concealment, because that "may" be a reason for a turn-back; separation; disenrollment; and in the case of ROTC, possible recoupment.