USNA Course Rigor/Depth

Hello

I was wondering how the courses offered at the USNA, more specifically their Computer Science/Computer Engineering programs, compare to the top, non-military colleges (MIT, Princeton, Georgia Tech, etc.) in terms of rigor/depth. I've heard that, because of the other missions of the Naval Academy (develop morally and mentally), the classes can be a bit more "bare-boned." Is this true? To reiterate, I am not comparing the performance/intellect of the Midshipmen to these colleges; I know the top 10% at USNA meet and more often surpass the top 10% at any other institution. I just want to know about any disparities course wise.

Thank you

Your question is virtually impossible to answer in a meaningfully objective way, for several reasons. First, you’re asking for a relative measure, which would require the opinion of students or teachers who’ve experienced both USNA and other schools. Second, widely available rankings don’t take into account “rigor” or “depth” because those are amorphous aspects that can vary dramatically depending on teachers and classes. Third, even if these aspects could be measured somehow, the SAs seldom participate in these surveys. Finally, whatever rankings you may find are driven by reputation and hearsay, and often by perception of the graduate program and not the undergraduate offering.

You can certainly get opinions from current and past midshipmen regarding the rigor and depth they faced, but again, it won’t be relative to anywhere else because they haven’t experienced anywhere else at a comparable level. Perhaps someone who did undergrad at USNA and grad at another school can offer perspective, but that’s a small sample size. Perhaps someone who attended USNA for the first two years, then transferred, but again a small sample size.

So you’re back to reputation and hearsay, which along with $1 will get you a cup of coffee.

atanglejwoodg said:

Hello

I was wondering how the courses offered at the USNA, more specifically their Computer Science/Computer Engineering programs, compare to the top, non-military colleges (MIT, Princeton, Georgia Tech, etc.) in terms of rigor/depth. I've heard that, because of the other missions of the Naval Academy (develop morally and mentally), the classes can be a bit more "bare-boned." Is this true? To reiterate, I am not comparing the performance/intellect of the Midshipmen to these colleges; I know the top 10% at USNA meet and more often surpass the top 10% at any other institution. I just want to know about any disparities course wise.

Thank you

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It depends on what you're talking about. For example, everyone has to take Electrical Engineering, but there are different levels of it. The group 3 majors (English, History, Poly Sci, etc) take a much more watered down version, probably what you've heard about in terms of "bare-boned" classes. The same applies to classes like Thermodynamics. There's thermo for non-engineers, thermo for the mechanical/aero type engineers, and somewhere in the middle there's thermo for systems/ocean/computer engineering.

That being said, at most other colleges like the ones you mention, an engineering degree typically takes 5 years. You don't have that option at USNA. You have to complete your degree in 4 years and you also have to take humanities electives, seamanship, leadership, etc. So no, an engineering degree at USNA probably won't be quite as in depth as other schools, but it's hard to say whether the courses themselves are less in depth, or the curriculum as a whole is.

atanglejwoodg said:

I've heard that..................." Is this true?

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One thing you will learn about applying to any of the SA's is that well meaning friends, relatives, neighbors or even the postman will offer all sorts of dubious opinions even when they have no idea what they are talking about. As mentioned above, this is a very subjective topic and you probably won't find many individuals who actually attended both an SA AND civilian college to effectively make such comparison. I would focus more on why you want to join the military, talking to as many current/former mids as you can and also keep your Plan B options open until you actually accept an appointment.

Courses in your major make up less than a third of what you take at the Naval Academy, in contrast to a civilian college where they are the majority. So you may not get to take as many courses in Comp Sci, but the courses themselves here are not bare-bones. They can be very in-depth and some of the professors here are really quite outstanding.

If it's watered down, then just get a 4.0 at USNA and go to any graduate school in the country. Won't be a problem getting into grad school with those grades.

atanglejwoodg said:

more specifically their Computer Science/Computer Engineering programs

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USNA's Cyber Security major is setting the standard for programs around the Country, perhaps the world. I don't know about other Computer Science programs, but Navy has always been a leader in the Computing ., e.g. Adm Grace Hopper. My recollection is that the Academic Dean has a Computer Science background, so the program will be in the forefront of USNA majors. Can't go wrong with a USNA degree in Computer Sciences or Cyber.

There have been several threads on this Forum debating the merits/depth of the USNA education v. the dedicated Engineering schools like MIT. It think the best summary I could come up with is that you should go to the MIT type school if your life objective is to sit in a cubicle and design stuff, but USNA is a better program if you want to lead --both in the fleet , and once you get out, leading those engineers that sit in the cubicle and design stuff.

Old Navy BGO said:

atanglejwoodg said:

more specifically their Computer Science/Computer Engineering programs

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USNA's Cyber Security major is setting the standard for programs around the Country, perhaps the world. I don't know about other Computer Science programs, but Navy has always been a leader in the Computing ., e.g. Adm Grace Hopper. My recollection is that the Academic Dean has a Computer Science background, so the program will be in the forefront of USNA majors. Can't go wrong with a USNA degree in Computer Sciences or Cyber.

There have been several threads on this Forum debating the merits/depth of the USNA education v. the dedicated Engineering schools like MIT. It think the best summary I could come up with is that you should go to the MIT type school if your life objective is to sit in a cubicle and design stuff, but USNA is a better program if you want to lead --both in the fleet , and once you get out, leading those engineers that sit in the cubicle and design stuff.

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That's a great way of thinking about it and an even better reason to go to USNA.

I second/third OLD NAVY BGO. Similarly, there’s a saying at Harvard and Yale that MIT grads work for their graduates because their schools produce significantly more leaders in business and government. While MIT grads are exceptionally brilliant, there’s a perception that MIT produces more technicals and less leaders compared to their Harvard Yale peers. Similarly, I truly believe that USNA produces more leaders for the Navy than their top civilian peer schools. Because the mission is producing leaders who are intellectually, technically, leader and Naval service ready from day one when they commission. Although there are many top respectable NROTC programs that we all admire and I wish to send my DD, I believe that USNA will always serve as the benchmark for the Midshipman program in the country. This is just IMHO.

Agree with nearly everything stated here. A few items. USNA is an undergrad only program. So your profs won’t be focused on grad or PhD students, just you and a few other Mids. We had a thread a few months ago discussing this topic and there was some great dialogue regarding undergrad vs grad focus at other institutions. Class size is incredibly small especially for upper level majors courses. USNA has a culture of professors and Mids working closely together and their support is incredible. You want deeper level, they have the Trident scholars program too. Your senior year project will go deep too. You pick the topic (with approval). USNA is definitely different than other schools in your curriculum, because it is there to produce officers. You won’t graduate and be a mechanical engineer. Sure maybe in 5, 8, 20 years. But guess what? You are going to get hired for your leadership skills, management, problem solving at that point, not because you will be an entry level engineer. You can always go to MIT for grad school, you can’t go back and go to USNA.

billyb said:

If it's watered down, then just get a 4.0 at USNA and go to any graduate school in the country. Won't be a problem getting into grad school with those grades.

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Getting into a grad school, true. Whether or not the Navy lets you actually go right out of USNA is another story. A 4.0 won’t guarantee that, so if you’re dead set on grad school right after undergrad that’s something to keep in mind.

My DD is a 1/C mid and a Comp Sci/IT double major. She spent Block 3 of this past summer at the Air Force's Maui High Performance Computing Center with one of her CS profs and 3 other mids doing research. So, not only 3.5 weeks doing some cool research (which will be used), but fun after hours in Hawai'i.

I can definitely say the intern programs are much greater than when I was going through USNA. Way more options.