Chances of becoming a Marine?

harrynm034

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251 midshipmen were selected to become Marines in class of '18, but does anyone know the number of midshipmen that did NOT get selected? Is it better to go Marine Corps Option in NROTC IF I hypothetically want to join the Marine Corps and get accepted into both service academy and ROTC?
 
USNA uses a "service assignment" process. 1/C mids put down their top 6 service selections and are then told which one they get. The overwhelming majority (usually 90%+) get their first choice; some get 2nd or even 3rd.

For those who want to be Marines, you are expected to complete Leatherneck (best analogy is a much-shortened TBS) successfully (alternatives are SEAL or EOD cruise). If you do well at Leatherneck and are OK academically, your chances of being a Marine are very good.

This year, some men who wanted USMC ground were asked to reconsider subs, as there wasn't a sufficient number of males who had selected subs. They try to get the mids voluntarily to change their choice but, in the end, needs of the Navy predominate. Bottom line: you have a very good shot out of USNA if you do well at Leatherneck, but it's not guaranteed.

I can't speak for ROTC.
 
For NROTC Marine Option it's guaranteed you'll become a Marine provided you complete the program successfully, including successful completion of OCS. Successful completion of OCS, which is the ROTC counterpart to Leatherneck (let's not quibble over details) is not guaranteed. The percentage of drops vary from year to year and class to class. When DS did OCS the drop rate was 17%. Some years it's less, Some years it's more. To succeed there, one needs mental and physical stamina. Avoiding injuries by being physically prepared is also important to success. Once commissioned all new Marine Lts, regardless of commissioning source, attend TBS for 6 months where they will learn (almost) everything they need to know to be a Marine Officer.

All that being said, choose the path where you think you'll thrive and not because of any guarantees. If you want it and work hard, you'll get there, regardless.
 
For NROTC Marine Option it's guaranteed you'll become a Marine provided you complete the program successfully, including successful completion of OCS. Successful completion of OCS, which is the ROTC counterpart to Leatherneck (let's not quibble over details) is not guaranteed. The percentage of drops vary from year to year and class to class. When DS did OCS the drop rate was 17%. Some years it's less, Some years it's more. To succeed there, one needs mental and physical stamina. Avoiding injuries by being physically prepared is also important to success. Once commissioned all new Marine Lts, regardless of commissioning source, attend TBS for 6 months where they will learn (almost) everything they need to know to be a Marine Officer.

All that being said, choose the path where you think you'll thrive and not because of any guarantees. If you want it and work hard, you'll get there, regardless.

Thank you, you do NOT have to obtain a scholarship to choose Marine Corps Option, correct?
 
There are lots of threads on this. At USNA your chances are generally very high to get USMC if you complete Leatherneck, can run a first class PFT, not be an idiot and have some leadership skills. I am joking in some ways, but really not. It can vary each year on the competitiveness of USMC. Honestly if you want USMC, show a willingness for it by joining the Semper Fi club, demonstrate some leadership skills, compete Leatherneck satisfactorily and run a First Class PFT you will get USMC. They want those who want to be Marines and have the skill set for it. As kinnem stated, ROTC is the ‘guaranteed path’. I would say that path has a big asterik next to that says... when completing all steps. I don’t have stats to back this up, but I would venture to say that NROTC MO probably has the smallest participants overall, yet a big attrition rate. I think kinnem in the past has spoken to some of the rates he saw while his son completed the program. He started as a college programmer who picked up a scholarship. I am guessing scholarship rates are better than programmer rates. Then factor in OCS completion rates (OCS is no joke)... attrition is pretty high. Lots of things to think about. A guaranteed path vs one that is not so guaranteed, yet also provides more flexibility if you decide maybe the USMC isn’t the right fit for me.
 
As Clint Eastwood once said: "If you want a guarantee, buy a toaster."

Unofficially, it lines up like this. Successful completion of each program presents the following simple comparison:
1. NROTC Marine Option - Marine Officer
2. USNA - Vast majority who want Marines get it. Needs of the Navy came impact the bell curve.
3. PLC and OCS - Needs of the Marine Corps at the time.

Its probably better to focus on your preference of a service academy life vs civilian university life. Once there, excel in all you do and you will find yourself on the path you desire.
 
At USNA your chances are generally very high to get USMC if you complete Leatherneck, can run a first class PFT, not be an idiot and have some leadership skills.

The Service Assignment process was implemented to add some degree of quality control to service selection, and I suspect that USMC had a lot of input. I've mentioned a certain squad leader I had as a Plebe here in the past -- he was worthless as a leader, and selected USMC air because his class rank was too low to get Navy Air. He had no interest in USMC -- he just wanted to fly. I never heard what happened to him, but always imagined that he got chewed up and spit out at TBS.

I think Hoops hits the nail on the head with the statement above. USMC is one of the most common service assignments, if not the most numerous. It is natural for USMC to want physically fit, motivated leaders who want nothing more than to be Marines. If you meet that criteria, you will most likely ..if not 100%, get your USMC assignment. Like anything in the Navy/Marine Corps, performance is paramount ...strong performance is always rewarded. To OP's question, it is alot more likely that someone isn't going to make it to USMC because failure of Leatherneck , PFT, etc. , and that applies to both Marine Option ROTC and USNA, than it is likely to fail to get USMC as your first choice of Service Assignment.

Sure, needs of the Navy controls...but I would suspect that it is highly unlikely that a USNA graduate who had strong performance at USNA and Leatherneck, and got the favorable selection by Senior Marines at USNA is ever going to get drafted into nuclear submarines.
 
Thank you, you do NOT have to obtain a scholarship to choose Marine Corps Option, correct?
The short and direct answer to your question is yes. You can enroll in NROTC Marine Option or Navy Option without a scholarship. There are opportunities to win a scholarship along the way. The kicker is that if you do not win a scholarship, you must be awarded what's called 'advanced standing' between sophomore and junior years. This is something you apply for and your application is reviewed by a national board. That's right, it's a national competition. The number they need to get out of this process varies year to year and there always seems to be more folks applying than there are slots... so no guarantee there. Again, your best chance is to work hard, give it your all, and be at the high end of the leader/scholar/athlete scale.

I thought I'd also expand a bit on drop rates that @NavyHoops alluded to. I already mentioned the drop rate at OCS in my earlier post. Hoops is right, OCS is no joke, and she would know even better than me. My kid lost 15-20 lbs while there. A LOT of physical activity, knowledge learning, lack of sleep, getting wet, muddy, and dirty.

What I hadn't mentioned is the drop rate from NROTC. DS's freshman class started with 45 midshipmen, both Marine Option and Navy Option. They had a fairly tough orientation for a week prior to starting classes. When I say tough, I mean tough for kids who are new to this stuff. Every kid thought about dropping from the program that first week. 10 did drop, leaving 35. Others dropped along the way because they thought it wasn't the right path to their goals. Some dropped because they decided to focus on academics and do OCS after college. Some dropped because they thought they couldn't earn a scholarship and therefore thought it not worth the effort. Some dropped, even with a scholarship in hand, because they just didn't fit. (One was in my son's first squad... what a jerk!), Others were forced out because of DUIs, drunken barroom brawls, not meeting academic standards, and even taking a swing at a Sgt. during OCS. Some were not awarded advanced standing.

Of the 45 who started that first day, 15 commissioned, 6 of them Marines. This is similar to stories I've heard from other units, although the drop rate varies. NROTC is no cakewalk. It too takes dedication, hard work, physical training, leadership skills, and scholastic ability. In this sense too, pursuing the Marine Option in NROTC is no guarantee either.

Hope this is helpful.
 
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I feel that I cannot further add to the advice already given. But I will offer some more recent stats. For my class ('19), some 350 Firsties put Marine Air/Ground as their first choice. 272 got it (I think a little over 100 Air contracts, the rest Ground). Of the 11 guys in my company that wanted Marines, only 8 got it. One of the three was a victim of the Sub draft, and the other two wanted Marine Air but got Navy Pilot. Two of the three performed poorly at Leatherneck, the other faced the issue of previous conduct trouble. If the academy is your commissioning program, then performance at Leatherneck is key. All I can say to Leatherneck is take it seriously, be fit, and be willing to put out.
 
One of the three was a victim of the Sub draft, and the other two wanted Marine Air but got Navy Pilot. Two of the three performed poorly at Leatherneck, the other faced the issue of previous conduct trouble. If the academy is your commissioning program, then performance at Leatherneck is key

Thanks Middy ...you confirmed what I've been thinking about the process, at least with regard to USMC. The three in your Company didn't get USMC because of Leatherneck performance and the selection process, not because Needs of the Navy. Back in my day, USMC selectees didn't have Leatherneck, and went to Quantico cold.. There were a number of cases where USNA graduates didn't perform well, in some cases because of cockiness, but others it was simply a bad fit (I've always imagined the First Class Squad Leader I mentioned above was part of the issue !). By attending Leatherneck, USMC can screen and select those they want, and reduce problems at TBS. That is actually a benefit to both USNA , USNA and USMC.
 
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