HELP!!! Is giving up the scholarship the only way to ensure infantry?

Devil Doc said:
AROTC-dad said:
On a serious note, my DD's husband was a combat medic (68w) and now has a compressed vertabrae as a result of dodging ISIS mortar shells by jumping off an eight foot wall with a full ruck along with his medical gear.
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Yep, Doc has to carry the same gear everybody else does, plus medical gear.

Also as implied above, people want infantry until they have to do infantry stuff.
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Said no Infantryman ever...

Folks, it's the Army. It is run by those in the infantry and those like them. I agree it's not for all. If I were ever in a position to hire employees...I'd start with those who carried 80 pounds on their backs. Just my opinion...I know it won't be shared by all, and am OK with that.
 
AROTC-dad said:
Soldiergriz said:
Said no Infantryman ever...
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No infantryman said what? I don't follow your point Grizz. Please clarify.
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I think he's questioning the remark by Devil Doc that "People want Infantry until they have to Infantry stuff" which of course is nonsense because I'm sure there are many that chose Infantry and regret it for one reason or another. Admittedly, working in San Diego we didn't deal with many soldiers but I dealt with a plethora of Marines and a metric ****-ton of Sailors in my time and at least 1/3 of them hated whatever they were doing and couldn't wait to get out. I'd guess the Army Infantry numbers are similar and that doesn't mean they aren't proud of their service.
 
Soldiergriz said:
AROTC-dad said:
Soldiergriz said:
Said no Infantryman ever...
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No infantryman said what? I don't follow your point Grizz. Please clarify.
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Lots of folks who are not infantry talking about the pitfalls of the infantry. I am not a chef, so I try not to talk about cooking.
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Figuring you are referring to me since I’m a mere Senior Chief Navy Corpsman, I’ll respond with; I was assigned with the Marines three times in 26 years. I spent more time with the Marines than most Marines ever did. Never dropped out of a hump or run. I ran my last Marine PFT, not Navy, at age forty. Qualified Expert with both rifle and pistol. As an Independent Duty Corpsman (IDC) I was able to serve as detachment commander, primary healthcare provider, and logistics officer which freed up a couple billets for a couple Corpsmen instead of officers. The USN uses Corpsmen differently than the army. We use IDCs in places where the army has physicians and PAs. With three joint meritorious unit commendations at retirement, I served with all branches and was qualified to go down range or to sea with any unit. So, if I make a comment about the infantry, I do so from a background of time, knee surgeries, and expert knowledge in the ground combat element. And believe this Soldier, I’ve encountered numerous grunts who which they had done something else.
 
confused mom said:
They were told by this cadet that only graduates with the highest gpa's get their first choice, so now my child thinks that it is impossible to get it, and if they want infantry, the only way is to drop out of college and enlist.
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This is not the way Branching works, GPA is only one part of the OML, a significant part but there is still a majority of the OML points that come from other sections.

Branch selections are made from the entire list, they don't just give the popular branches to only those with the top OML scores.

This is just the first semester, as others have said it can be tough but there is plenty of time to improve.

Everyone seems to have an idea of what they want to branch when they start ROTC. My older son was set on MI with an Infantry Detail, he was within the top 10% so his branch was guaranteed, right at the end he switched to Aviation. Point being a lot of cadets change their goals once they have been exposed to different branches.

Staying with ROTC and commissioning will give a person a lot of options down the road, My older son was Aviation to start but is now a Civil Affairs Officer, his friend from ROTC branched Ordnance out of school but is now a SF Officer.

If your DS/DD dream is to be in the field kicking down doors at the front of the line for their entire career in the Army, then enlisted may be the right route, Infantry Officers will be PL's for up to a couple years only, then on to staff time and then to a more command position.

In the end he/she should work toward their goals and decide which path is right for them, research each branch with an open mind and gather as much information from those within the branches they want. Just don't fall into the trap of those that say their branch is the best and all others aren't worth the time, search out good unbiased information.

Best of luck.
 
Soldiergriz said:
Lots of folks who are not infantry talking about the pitfalls of the infantry. I am not a chef, so I try not to talk about cooking.
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Soldiergriz- I see very few people talking about Infantry on here - I see lots of folks talking about a freshman in college who is considering dropping a scholarship because they think that their record won’t get them branched Infantry. So to be clear - my points are:
a. 20 + years as an Infantry officer here and father of a current Infantry NCO in the 82d. A life as an 11B is not the same as it may seem to an 18 year old who has never seen the peacetime Army. It’s not all Hooah hardcore stuff all the time.
b. A degree is a pretty important and expensive qualification for those in or out of the Army. Giving up a 4 year scholarship is a potentially life changing decision.
c. One semester into one’s college career is insufficient to judge either your overall college performance or your likelihood of being commissioned into the branch of your choice.
d. Making that decision because you are certain (at age 18) that you will be the hardest nail in the toolbox is also preliminary. I don’t believe I can count the number of cadets who I have seen change over the years from being the most “hooah“ cadets out there to suddenly being concerned about their post Army careers and going into CS/CSS branches ( or whatever they call them now). - (BY THE WAY, that post-Army career concern that I have heard from so many Cadets is equally horse droppings. Infantry Officers are in as high employment demand as any other branch for civilian employment. Army logistics is not civilian logistics, Army Finance is not business finance etc etc... Your service in the Army will be as marketable as you make it. An Infantry Officer is an operations manager and the elements of success are the same in the civilian world and the Army! Just a personal pet peace of mine[emoji33]!)
e. Dropping all of the above because some senior cadet gave erroneous commissioning “advice” is a serious, serious mistake. If the cadet in question has determined that they are just unsuited for college then that is a different conversation. But as relayed the cadet has received neither good advice on how branching occurs, nor are they far enough along in their Army experience to really know what they will want at age 22.
f. Bottom line the cadet needs to stick it out and work harder academically, physically and in their ROTC Military Science classes and don’t leap to conclusions about a future that is 3 years down the road still!
 
A couple of things:

The notion that infantry officers wish they had chosen a different branch later in life based on bad knees etc....is just simply not true. That was one of the ideas being posted. It was also insinuated infantry officers are less employable post-Army career. That is also false.

I am not a doctor, medic, or medical services officer, so will avoid speaking authoritatively about scrapes, sprains, and concussions. But, I appreciate all they do for our Soldiers.

The cadet wants infantry and should drive himself to that goal...
 
I don’t understand how branching happens 100%, but according to my daughter (MS-III), the Army decided (just like mentioned earlier by K2rider), that they only fill a certain percentage of spots by OML list, then at a certain percentage, they draw by lottery for the remaining spots. Maybe someone else on here has a more detailed account of how it works. But it will also depend on which branches you are requested as how deep into they go for that branch before starting to assign by lottery. So that is why it takes a higher OML for Infantry because it is more popular of a choice.
 
The cadet wants Infantry and should keep an open mind as he navigates the next 3 years of ROTC and do his best to give himself the most opportunity among the 17 Branches the Army has to offer. What he should not do is have only a single goal which in most cases he has no control over only to end up with self induced regret. If the goal is to be an officer in the Army in any capacity, then keep forging ahead, if the goal is to be in the Infantry and only the Infantry, then drop ROTC and enlist. Just be aware the paths are as different as night and day.
 
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bruno said:
Soldiergriz said:
Lots of folks who are not infantry talking about the pitfalls of the infantry. I am not a chef, so I try not to talk about cooking.
Click to expand...

Soldiergriz- I see very few people talking about Infantry on here - I see lots of folks talking about a freshman in college who is considering dropping a scholarship because they think that their record won’t get them branched Infantry. So to be clear - my points are:
a. 20 + years as an Infantry officer here and father of a current Infantry NCO in the 82d. A life as an 11B is not the same as it may seem to an 18 year old who has never seen the peacetime Army. It’s not all Hooah hardcore stuff all the time.
b. A degree is a pretty important and expensive qualification for those in or out of the Army. Giving up a 4 year scholarship is a potentially life changing decision.
c. One semester into one’s college career is insufficient to judge either your overall college performance or your likelihood of being commissioned into the branch of your choice.
d. Making that decision because you are certain (at age 18) that you will be the hardest nail in the toolbox is also preliminary. I don’t believe I can count the number of cadets who I have seen change over the years from being the most “hooah“ cadets out there to suddenly being concerned about their post Army careers and going into CS/CSS branches ( or whatever they call them now). - (BY THE WAY, that post-Army career concern that I have heard from so many Cadets is equally horse droppings. Infantry Officers are in as high employment demand as any other branch for civilian employment. Army logistics is not civilian logistics, Army Finance is not business finance etc etc... Your service in the Army will be as marketable as you make it. An Infantry Officer is an operations manager and the elements of success are the same in the civilian world and the Army! Just a personal pet peace of mine[emoji33]!)
e. Dropping all of the above because some senior cadet gave erroneous commissioning “advice” is a serious, serious mistake. If the cadet in question has determined that they are just unsuited for college then that is a different conversation. But as relayed the cadet has received neither good advice on how branching occurs, nor are they far enough along in their Army experience to really know what they will want at age 22.
f. Bottom line the cadet needs to stick it out and work harder academically, physically and in their ROTC Military Science classes and don’t leap to conclusions about a future that is 3 years down the road still!
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Thank you, Soldiergriz. These points you make are good ones - so valid. I kind of felt all along that it was terrible advice the upperclassman was giving my child, but it's not as if I can call the ROTC office - I'm sure you know how they would frown upon a mother calling! I feel better about the situation, and I know more so I can approach my child with valid arguments or at least things for him/her to consider. Many thanks.
Thanks to everyone else, too. This has been so helpful to me.
 
Thank you, all. If you didn't see above, you have all been very helpful and I feel much more "in the know" about ROTC now.
 
Soldiergriz said:
A couple of things:

The notion that infantry officers wish they had chosen a different branch later in life based on bad knees etc....is just simply not true. That was one of the ideas being posted. It was also insinuated infantry officers are less employable post-Army career. That is also false.

I am not a doctor, medic, or medical services officer, so will avoid speaking authoritatively about scrapes, sprains, and concussions. But, I appreciate all they do for our Soldiers.

The cadet wants infantry and should drive himself to that goal...
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The scrapes and sprains comment shows a lack of respect and appreciation of what grunt medics and Corpsmen actually contribute to the operational environment.
 
confused mom said:
My child has an Army ROTC four year scholarship at a difficult college. They (I don't want to reveal gender) are in their first year, and their grades were not good the first semester. Someone (an upper level cadet/maybe platoon leader?) told them that one of the most popular choices for officers upon graduating is infantry, which is what my child desperately wants at this point. They were told by this cadet that only graduates with the highest gpa's get their first choice, so now my child thinks that it is impossible to get it, and if they want infantry, the only way is to drop out of college and enlist. I think this would be a huge mistake after so much has been given to my child. Does anyone know if the advice this older cadet gave is accurate?
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I think your DS/DD is just panicking after a bad semester. Cadets and all people for that matter feed off each other. Problems are always shared. If you are going to lose your scholarship(bad grades) than an answer is to enlist. Wanting infantry may be only a justification to the real deep issue that I may not be able to do this ROTC thing. Bad grades can create real doubt about success over the next few years. Your job is to try(key word try) to guide them to make good decisions and seek the best outcomes. In the end all decisions are ultimately theirs to make. I walked my son off the ledge many times in his life. Especially in college. Other people's problems became his. He would explain an upsetting situation. I would always respond how does that effect you. He always quickly got over it and moved forward. Soon he will lead 250 soldiers overseas. Let him/her talk. Be indirect about the issue and make each conversation comfortable so it lasts a long time. In time you will find the real problem instead of the rash solution. The you can think of solutions to discuss with him or her. Or even better gently suggest they find the Plan A, B, C for their life from this given point. It can be but does not have to include the Army. There is much more in life than just the Army Infantry. There will much bigger problems and worries in life ahead. But there will also be cheeseburgers, fries and chocolate milkshakes!
 
EDelahanty said:
Not sure what you mean by "difficult college." Do they have to climb a rope or crawl through mud to get to class? Possibly your daughter thought she could coast like in high school or just didn't use her time efficiently. Cut out the video games and facebook, don't skip any classes, restrict binge-drinking to weekends, do all assigned work, and set a goal of getting As in every course. If you fall behind get academic help - don't let it slide.

The first semester is tough for a lot of people, but she can turn it around. My son had a mediocre first semester academically but then set goals and ruthlessly followed them. By the end he was a DMG, summa cum lawdy, and got his goal of active duty infantry
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I believe a certain George S Patton had to repeat his first year at West Point. Graduated in the middle of his class.

And George Armstrong Custer barely graduated at all.

Both ended doing fine.

Though, admittedly, neither were infantrymen.
 
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