I need advice badly

Capt MJ said:
Wow - there's a lot here. I will respond to some of the quicker ones. Others will respond too.

Good for you at already diving into research about HPSP and USUHS.

Browse the many, many medical school threads here on SAF - suggest checking USMA, USNA and USAFA forums.

The mission of SAs is to train and produce junior officers for the warfare communities/branches in their services. Medical doctors are staff officers, Medical Corps. A handful are allowed to go to medical school each year from SAs - read about it on SA websites. No guarantee. If you want to be a doctor above all, and have no interest in serving in a non-medical combat warfare specialty, the SA route may not be for you.

The military gets the majority of its healthcare officers via direct commission programs (the ones you are looking at), not via SA.

You will want to research the required years of obligated service associated with each path.

All military people are subject to the needs of their service. This can and will impact everything from duty stations to residency choices. While military people can express preferences, there is no guarantee.

Marine Corps does not have a Med Corps. They get their care from military treatment facilities (MTF) closest to their duty station, usually Navy. They can be single service or joint MTF, staffed by military healthcare providers from Navy, Army, Air Force.

Since you are interested in service, explore the Public Health Service, USPHS. They are one of the 7 uniformed services, but not one of the 5 armed services. They wear Navy-type uniforms, have ranks, have same pay and benefits. They can also attend USUHS. They are professionals and well-regarded. A small Corps but dedicated!
See:
https://www.usphs.gov/student/

Ensure you are talking to officer recruiters, not enlisted recruiters, preferably officer recruiters knowledgeable about the MD programs.
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Captain MJ, I've been looking up some army doctors and one of the guys I found went to a regular medical college, then applied for an HPSP grant, then after the long path through medicine, went on two deployments to Kosovo and Iraq as a vascular surgeon. So what I've kind of derived from this is that you don't have to go to a service academy to end up in the armed forces, you can just as well go to a civilian college then get a grant and end up in the military. Will the military still accept surgeons who have no prior experience with deployments? As a surgeon who never went to one of the SA can you choose whether you want to serve in the army, navy, etc.? Does taking an HPSP grant mean you get to do a military residency? Does USUHS usually accept more candidates from SA vs civilian colleges? I don't remember if it was you or someone else who told me I should do ROTC, but you probably know what is ROTC?
 
USU accepts far more NON-service academy students. So, just regular kids who applied to medical school and wish to serve as officers and physicians in the military. When you apply to USU from a civilian program, you pick your service--or your top two and then the services decide whether they want you. With HPSP, you pick your service.

Also, it is a possible to go to college and then medical school on your own--and then join the military. There is not cost benefit to the individual in tracking this route but often times individuals who feel motivated to serve their Nation can go through the recruitment process for medical officers and attend the training program before practicing medicine in the Army, Navy, or Air Force. You can serve active duty or in the reserves.
 
If I'm not selected for USUHS straight out of USNA, what are the odds of going to a good civilian med school like Baylor or something and getting an HPSP grant. Question: if I get an HPSP grant would I still be able to do a military residency?
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Not entirely sure I understand your question. Some people attend USNA, do 5+ years as an unrestricted line officer and then go to med school -- either to USUHS or a civilian school. If you have great grades in the required courses (organic chem, physics, etc.) and have great MCAT scores, you have a good chance of getting into med school.

Mids who earn one of the 12 med school slots can attend USUHS or a civilian med school. There are pluses and minuses to each approach. If you are permitted by USNA to attend med school but you don't get into any med schools (you have to be accepted by the Navy AND by the med school), then you become a line officer and get whatever billets are still left over for which you qualify. It has happened. And, as noted, there is no special dispensation given to SA students by USUHS -- you compete equally with everyone else.

You can't attend med school directly out of USNA other than getting one of the 12 med school slots. You either are selected to attend med school directly out of USNA or you become a line officer.
 
Official max number for Med Corp each year is currently 15.

https://www.usna.edu/ChemDept/ChemMajor/med-corps-info.php

usna1985 said:
If you are permitted by USNA to attend med school but you don't get into any med schools (you have to be accepted by the Navy AND by the med school), then you become a line officer and get whatever billets are still left over for which you qualify. It has happened.
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At least one case happened to a 2016 grad. He became a NFO, I believe.
 
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VikramT said:
im cool with that.... so what I'm hearing is that if I want to serve/deploy as a surgeon then going to one of the armed forces colleges for undergraduate isn't the best for me. If not, what should I do instead, do ROTC at a civilian college and then apply to USUHS or for a HPSP grant? Long as I get to serve/deploy as a surgeon I'll be happy. Any explanations/ options you could tell me would be awesome.
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The thing is, if you want to be a military doc, you don't have to do ROTC or attend a Service Academy at all. Most do not. No reason to. They do HPSP at a civilian med school, or apply to USUHS and direct commission, or direct commission later on. Keep digging into primary sources to understand the programs.

Direct commission healthcare providers do attend indoc-type schools which help to transition them into life as uniformed officers.

If you are looking for a way to pay for college via ROTC while trying to walk a very narrow path toward the med school route, you run the risk of ending up doing something completely non-medical.

Please go back and review all the posts trying to help you gain insight into the process.

If you know you would be perfectly fine being a Surface Warfare officer serving and deploying on combatant ships, or in another non-medical field, in the years following USNA graduation, in case you were not selected for the medical program, then yes, read everything in the USNA website, all links and dropdowns, and go for it.

As for NROTC, I just grabbed some quick FAQs off the Ga Tech website. Note the comments about med school and NROTC a few questions down. There is likely a current NROTC page addressing this question.
http://nrotc.gatech.edu/faq/
 
Putting it straight, your best bet is to go non-military. Entirely. Go to college, medical school. If you to join the military in some capacity after that, surely there would be ways to do that.
 
VikramT said:
...I'm planning to apply to USNA and then take either the HPSP or head to USUHS where I'll go to Med school and then complete a military residency (my choice residency would probably be in my home state of Washington.... so either Madigan or Lewis Mcchord). ...I want to get out of the whole tech support stereotype and actually help people who are oppressed, not just to show off a uniform. ...P:S: Vascular surgery would be my choice specialty, this would enable me to be an emergency surgeon for wounded soldiers
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VikramT - You should do more research on your options. There are other message boards that have AD (Navy, AF, Army) Physicians responding to questions.

As others have indicated if your primary goal is to be a Vascular Surgeon or any type of medical specialist you should wait to join any military service until you are in your residency or fellowship. The Navy only has Family Medicine as an option for residency in Washington state. General Surgery residencies in the Navy are in San Diego, Bethesda MD, and maybe Portsmouth. For 2018-19 the Navy has one opening for a Vascular Surgery Fellowship. It is rare for an HPSP or USUHS graduate to be allowed to apply to an Integrated Vascular Surgery residency and there are very few Integrated Vascular Surgery residencies even for civilian applicants. The normal path, Gen Surg residency to Vascular Surgery fellowship, for the Navy is verrrrrrrrrrrry small. As in one every other year allowed to pursue that fellowship training.

My recommendation - Go to school close to home to keep costs down. Reassess your interest in military medicine when you are about to graduate and have all your premed requirements complete (Good GPA, MCAT, and EC's). If you choose to attend a Service Academy or ROTC be prepared to complete your commitment as a line officer and delaying medical school for at least 5 years.

If you want to 'help people who are oppressed' join the Peace Corps after UG or volunteer on mission trips or DWB/MSF after you complete medical school as a civilian. As a military doctor there will be limited opportunity for this unless you volunteer while on leave and definitely not like that of MSF doctors.
 
AFROTC Parent makes an excellent point. In the military, you may or may not be able to enter the residency of your choice. It's much more about the needs of the military vs. your desires. I know of one Navy MD a number of years ago who really wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon. He didn't get it. Tried a second time. Didn't get it. Eventually left the military -- and never became a surgeon.

While residency isn't guaranteed for civilians, you tend to have a bit more control than you do in the military. Think about what's important to you and pick a path that sets you up for success.
 
AROTC Parent said:
VikramT - You should do more research on your options. There are other message boards that have AD (Navy, AF, Army) Physicians responding to questions.
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AROTC parent, can you list the link or at least tell the name of the forums you are speaking about? Thanks.
 
VikramT said:
Will the military still accept surgeons who have no prior experience with deployments?
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First things first... if you want to go to medical school right after college, do not go through NROTC. A few years ago, the USN stopped allowing NROTC mids from going directly to medical school. You can go straight to medical school from the USNA BUT you have to be one of the up to 15 who are selected for a MC billet. Competition is tough, but there's at least a chance to go to medical school from USNA compared to 0% through NROTC.

Yes. The military will gladly accept board-certified general, vascular, cardiothoracic, etc... surgeons. Let's say you go to StateU on your own dime and StateU med on your own dime too. You do a general surgery residency and then vascular fellowship. You decide you want to serve after your fellowship. The military will welcome you with open arms.

VikramT said:
As a surgeon who never went to one of the SA can you choose whether you want to serve in the army, navy, etc.?
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If you're a vascular surgeon off the streets who has no military connection whatsoever, you can pick whatever service you want. If you like the water, join the USN. If you like nice things, join the USAF. If you want to jump out of perfectly good planes and potentially be part of units that don't officially exist, then join the Army. If you go to a civilian undergrad and get into USU, then you can also pick any of the services (to include PHS) when you enter. I don't know this for sure, but I think PHS will want you to only a primary care specialty though.

VikramT said:
Does taking an HPSP grant mean you get to do a military residency?
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No. Only USU grads are guaranteed a residency in the military health system. If you are in HPSP, you have to go through the military match in December. If you don't match, then you will have to go through the civilian match in March. In reality, unless you mess up a clinical rotation, you've got a good chance of matching in the military system. As in the civilian world, matching in some specialties (eg dermatology, radiology, ortho, neurosurgery) is difficult within the military.

VikramT said:
Does USUHS usually accept more candidates from SA vs civilian colleges?
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USU accepts more candidates from civilian colleges than SAs with its entering class. Remember, up to 2% of graduates (up to 15 from USNA) can go to medical school right after graduation. That means up to 20 (assuming 1000 graduates) each from USMA and USAFA and up to 15 from USNA for a total of only 55 medical students (and that's only IF they ALL go to a USU- many will go to civilian medical schools on an HPSP scholarship). There are approx. 160-170 medical students in an entering class at USU.

What I tell people who want to go to a SA and then medical school are the following:
1) Getting into medical school is primarily getting a high GPA and MCAT. SAs are not known to inflate GPAs.
2) You must be willing to serve in in a non-medical capacity because there's a decent chance you won't be allowed to go to medical school after graduation. If you're willing to serve as a SWO, infantry officer, CSO, etc, before going to medical school, then by all means go for it.

As an aside, my DD put in her essay for the USNA app that her goal is to be a military doctor. After she sent in the essay, I thought maybe it would disadvantage her with the adcom. She got an appointment to the USNA yesterday.
 
VikramT said:
If I'm not selected for USUHS straight out of USNA, what are the odds of going to a good civilian med school like Baylor or something and getting an HPSP grant. Question: if I get an HPSP grant would I still be able to do a military residency?
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Let's say you're one of the mids who are selected for a MC billet. Frankly, if you can't get into USU out of the USNA, then the chances of you getting into a medical school like Baylor, Vandy, UChicago, etc... is not good.

Yes, if you go through a civilian medical school through HPSP, you've got a very good chance of doing a residency in the military.
 
GoCubbies said:
Yes, if you go through a civilian medical school through HPSP, you've got a very good chance of doing a residency in the military.
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Well....maybe....who knows if military GME is even going to exist in a couple years. Huge changes coming to military medicine in the next couple years. It’s all clear as mud right now [emoji30]
 
kp2001 said:
Well....maybe....who knows if military GME is even going to exist in a couple years. Huge changes coming to military medicine in the next couple years. It’s all clear as mud right now [emoji30]
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Well, you’re right in that it’s as clear as mud now.

With the NDAA provisions, military medicine as we know it will be a shadow of itself. However, I do know the one piece that all the services are fighting for is the retention of GME. We just cannot rely on the civilian GME system to train all (maybe some) the physicians needed by the military. Heck, the civilian GME system can’t even accommodate all allopathic medical graduates.
 
VikramT said:
Are you an American citizen? Usna has that as a requirement for entry
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Yes! Parents are immigrants from India but I'm born and raised in Washington.[/QUOTE]

@Vikram. Join the Navy to serve. Don’t view the Navy as a piggy bank. Forget about Med School until your first 5 year commitment is done. Thereafter apply to top Medical schools in the country. NYU offers free tuition to all their Med students. Apply with an incredible resume earned with blood and guts from your service in the Navy. Med schools will dig that. You may even get into Harvard Med School like Jonny Kim who served as an enlistee for 10 years as a Navy Seal Sniper and Medic then finished his college at UofSan Diego and graduated from Harvard Med School in 2016. He’s now an Astronaut in training at NASA. He’s only 35 yet he already had 3 life long dream careers for many young men and women who can only dream of. Join the service because you want to serve others, period. Earn your pay through service and performance to go to Med School. Then you will be truly honored and others will honor you! And no one will look at you as “Tech Support” but a Bad Ass Warrior.
 
Thanks @THParent. After all that care Chat Room offered. Maybe @Vikram went to become Tech Support. If he chimes back in now he would be a Midshipman.
 
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