Potential to be Recruited Athlete?

First post, please be kind....

DS is a HS freshman and is terribly in love with the thought of being a Cadet and playing USAFA football. I have told him how incredibly difficult the process is and that if he is serious he must do and continue to do all the things that would make the SA want him. He is smart and driven but not to the same degree as many of the applicants I have seen post herein. I am former Army NCO so I have very little valuable guidance to give him as to how an SA (and their selection process) works but have used the knowledge gleaned here to help guide him. I have stressed to him that nature of the military and that the Academy is not to be taken lightly and that upon completion there is the possibility that he could be ordered to lead armed men in combat in a foreign land with little to no support. While he still doesn't get that part of it, at least it gave him some pause.

We are attending this month for a football event and will be returning for a football camp in the summer, but I have told him often how he cannot hang his hat on this being his only path, and that if he really wants this he should be prepared to apply without any potential for athletics being considered (as a Recruited Athlete). He is very talented football player but there are so many of those that will not get past PCQ.

He is currently:
top 5% of his class,
4.33 GPA with one AP class (all that the Fr are allowed),
two sport letter winner,
few leadership opportunities taken yet,
most outside activities are church related or YoungLife.

Sorry for the long post, here is the question. Whether someone is a recruited athlete or not, is there that much of a difference in the application or the appointment process?

I apologize in advance if there are other threads with this information. Thanks for reading my rambling post, I will go back to my corner and lurk.

My son is a High School senior and currently exercising his patience as he awaits an appointment to USAFA. I am no expert on the process but would like to offer one piece of advice. Look into Civil Air Patrol. My son joined our local squadron and the experiences he has had as a result have been incredible and so beneficial in enabling him to show his leadership skills. Many of the cadets in his squadron have gone on to attend SAs. Last year one cadet was accepted to all four, largely in part to his CAP experience.

It sounds like you;re giving him the right guidance and I wouldn't expect a high school freshman to fully comprehend what they might be committing to. Although I don't think she was recruited (not sure), and it's a different academy and sport, perhaps @NavyHoops might provide some useful info.

Our DS too is a senior and exercising his patience while we wait. I think your son's academic credentials sound solid to start, and you are clearly a loving and involved Dad. Find some kind of leadership opportunity your son can excel at. If not CAP--if your son hustles it's not too late for Eagle Scout. Or look into Boys State. His academic credentials look good, so that will work for him at either an SA or another school on football scholarship. But see if he can bolster some leadership experiences. Does his school have JROTC?

Also--when he's at USAFA at the football camp--make sure he tells the coaches he's interested in USAFA.

I'll let others more knowledgeable chime in, but the path is nearly the same for recruited athletes versus non-athletes. It's just the nomination process that might vary. Again--I'll wait for the really smart folks here to chime in on this aspect.

I'll repeat what I've read a lot here--if he doesn't apply, there's zero chance he'll get in.

One thing I'll add on leadership... football team captain sounds like it would be a natural fit for him.

LubbockDad said:

Whether someone is a recruited athlete or not, is there that much of a difference in the application or the appointment process?

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Even recruited athletes should be prepared to go through the same (academy and nomination) application processes.

The one scenario I would personally probe would be to assume that something happens very early in his academy career that eliminates the possibility of playing USAFA football (but not medical disqualification from the USAF). Would he be prepared to complete his four years in the academy and then a minimum of five additional years in the operational Air Force? JMPO, but the end goal should be commissioning in the Air Force, not just to play USAFA football.

@FMSH-79,

I could not agree more. We spend a ton of time talking about the difference between a SA and normal college. The end goal of having a career should mean more than any athletic endeavor. And to add in the seriousness of an Armed Forces career...but I am glad you brought that up about an injury. That is one path I had not gone down with him. That will now be part of our talks. Thanks!

To be honest, I am quietly against a career in the military (based on my experiences), but it is his life and so I will do whatever we need to do to help him begin his path.

DS was a recruited athlete with USNA (different SA, similar process). Did the official visit and all that. When he returned, coach called and we had a conference call. So I heard this first hand. Coach told DS to ‘apply for any/all nominations that he can. And if he wasn’t able to secure one, they would go from there’. Ultimately DS received his own noms. I recall Coach inquiring who his congresspeople were, and to let him know when all his MOC apps were done. I was led to believe Coach would let DS’s MOC’s know of their recruitment (It also came up in DS’s interviews). So MOC’s knew. He received 3 nom’s. I do not expect he would have been blue chipped in, which is a highly desirable athlete a coach wants. I know it happens BC there is a football player who decided to apply AFTER MOC nominations closed and received an appointment.

So the answer is both yes and no. There is no difference in the process. For your applicant. Obviously they want you to get in on your own. If you aren’t able to, Coach has a small amount of ability to assist your entrance. But the ACTUAL process is the same for you on the front end. As far as the appointment, coaches can endorse an athlete which would probably give a little bump in the application (or straight up blue chip).

Bottom line: attack it without relying on anything. Supply your absolute best package. Period.

In our case, DS also received AFROTC and NROTC, which are truly national competitions outside any athletic recruiting. I add this BC I wondered at one point if he got his appointment only BC of the recruiting. The answer is no.

Another thing to keep in mind is recruiting is a fickle thing! You are number 1 until there’s a new number 1. Plus you may find being a varsity athlete on top of all the other requirements vying for your limited time to be too much. And quit your sport.

It would be great to hear from some recent grads or current cadets on this topic. My data is about 30 years old - back then there was a significant difference in the academic qualifications of the average cadet and the average recruited football cadet. One of the biggest things that people do not realize about our SAs is that the admissions process is not designed to appoint our nation's most qualified applicants - it is a political process. That statement encompasses a lot of different topics. I won't go down any of those rabbit holes right now other than to say I suspect that football is still a part of that mix. The fabulous thing about our SAs is that after the cadets arrive, everyone is on an equal playing field when it comes to developing their leadership abilities and having a successful career in our military which should be the ultimate goal of everyone attending our SAs.

LubbockDad said:

To be honest, I am quietly against a career in the military (based on my experiences), but it is his life and so I will do whatever we need to do to help him begin his path.

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Keep in mind that attending an academy doesn't necessarily mean a career in the military. Many folks do five and dive, and there is nothing wrong with that.

LubbockDad said:

Sorry for the long post, here is the question. Whether someone is a recruited athlete or not, is there that much of a difference in the application or the appointment process?

I apologize in advance if there are other threads with this information. Thanks for reading my rambling post, I will go back to my corner and lurk.

Click to expand...

DS was a Blue Chip Football recruit this year and received his appointment a couple weeks ago. He also had a dozen other D1 football scholarship offers and multiple academic scholarships as well. 4.0 non weighted GPA, 31 ACT, all 5s and 4s on a dozen AP classes, football captain, multi year 1st team all state, academic all-state, multi year 3 sport varsity athlete, Eagle Scout, worked 2 jobs in the summer, many many volunteer hours in the community and in our church, he has spent the last 2 years as a missionary and held every leadership position available. He was asked to seek and received 2 nominations and was told by coaches that if he didn’t get one on his own they would find one for him. (he got one of the Senators slot for our state) I’d like to think he was qualified on his own to attend USAFA, but it is a very competitive place.

So, while the application process is the exact same, the football team does have people to help with the process. For example, there were over 60 young men that committed to USAFA football this year and there were only 5 on the text message from his coach telling them their package was going to be approved the week before he got a call from our Senator to congratulate him on his appointment. I assume not everyone of them is a blue chip, many will go to the pro school and still others will be expected to be admitted on their own. DS was also told before he got medically qualified, that if he did not get a nomination he would receive an LOA. There are just so many factors at play.

My best advice to your son would be to prepare academically and otherwise as if he will receive no assistance. Then prepare athletically to receive other scholarship offers and he will then be making a decision that is right for him if he chooses to come to USAFA.

I’d be happy to discuss it in more detail if you want to send me a PM.

Thank you to everyone who responded. I cannot tell you what a relief it has been to find this site so that I could become more educated on SA's so that I could be less of a hindrance to him, and maybe even helpful!

Thanks again!

kinnem said:

LubbockDad said:

To be honest, I am quietly against a career in the military (based on my experiences), but it is his life and so I will do whatever we need to do to help him begin his path.

Click to expand...

Keep in mind that attending an academy doesn't necessarily mean a career in the military. Many folks do five and dive, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Click to expand...

I am sure I am going to receive some backlash with my response here, but I wholeheartedly disagree with "there is nothing wrong with doing the five and dive"! And I honestly wish the military could figure out who actually wanted to get into one of the academies and actually serve their country and who actually wanted to do their five and dive. My DD desperately wants to get into the USNA or USAF academy so that she can serve her country and she knows that being trained by the best of the best will ultimately help strengthen the military and feels that she would be a great asset. It's frustrating that with such fierce competition of DD & DS wanting in and others wanting to serve like my DD against those who just want in and plan on bailing.

frogwoman said:

I am sure I am going to receive some backlash with my response here, but I wholeheartedly disagree with "there is nothing wrong with doing the five and dive"! And I honestly wish the military could figure out who actually wanted to get into one of the academies and actually serve their country and who actually wanted to do their five and dive. My DD desperately wants to get into the USNA or USAF academy so that she can serve her country and she knows that being trained by the best of the best will ultimately help strengthen the military and feels that she would be a great asset. It's frustrating that with such fierce competition of DD & DS wanting in and others wanting to serve like my DD against those who just want in and plan on bailing.

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So you think that the people who do five and get out didn't serve their country? They served honorably and fulfilled the obligation required of them in return for their education. There is nothing wrong with that.

Additionally, the military doesn't want everyone to stick around after 5 years. The military is a pyramid hierarchy. They need less and less people to stay as each year passes after graduation. They need a lot of Lieutenants to train and do the lower level work. Then as Captains they become the experts in their tactical field and flight leads. At 9-10 years they become Majors but they are Flight Commanders so they need less of them than they needed Captains. It continues on up the chain as they get higher in rank they need less in each position. The military knows what it needs and the commitment is at 5 years for a reason.

Stealth_81

frogwoman said:

And I honestly wish the military could figure out who actually wanted to get into one of the academies and actually serve their country and who actually wanted to do their five and dive.

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They don't separate the markers at Arlington between those who intended to have a long term career versus those who sought to "five and dive."

All served and gave the ultimate sacrifice.

We are a nation that has a long history of citizen soldiers (and Airmen, Sailors, Marines, and Coast Guardsmen). If our military intended to have 100% career officers, then the SA obligation would be longer than 5 years of active duty.

frogwoman said:

kinnem said:

LubbockDad said:

To be honest, I am quietly against a career in the military (based on my experiences), but it is his life and so I will do whatever we need to do to help him begin his path.

Click to expand...

Keep in mind that attending an academy doesn't necessarily mean a career in the military. Many folks do five and dive, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Click to expand...

I am sure I am going to receive some backlash with my response here, but I wholeheartedly disagree with "there is nothing wrong with doing the five and dive"! And I honestly wish the military could figure out who actually wanted to get into one of the academies and actually serve their country and who actually wanted to do their five and dive. My DD desperately wants to get into the USNA or USAF academy so that she can serve her country and she knows that being trained by the best of the best will ultimately help strengthen the military and feels that she would be a great asset. It's frustrating that with such fierce competition of DD & DS wanting in and others wanting to serve like my DD against those who just want in and plan on bailing.

Click to expand...

There is no way a 17 or 18 year old graduating high school or 21 or 22 year old SA graduate will know how their career may work out. I graduated almost 24 years ago and it is always amusing to look at what your classmates are doing. There are guys or gals who fit the mold and are now Brigade Commanders and General Officers and others who you assumed would get out as soon as possible. There are just as many who were the exact opposite as well. I have a friend who talked about his only future was 30 years in the Army during our Academy days and he separated in less than three years because the Army was not what he expected.

Most of the career officers I know, including flag and general officers, were surprised by the arc of their careers, having originally planned to serve their time and get out and fly for the airlines, go corporate, return to the family business, go back to school for a different career path, and so on. I thought I was going to do the minimum, use my GI Bill and go to B School (did 26 years!). I intended to serve honorably, learn job skills, see the world, but certainly not stay for a full career. DH thought he was headed to a major airline (did 26 and 4 commands at sea!). The Dant I worked for at USNA went on to become the 4-star Chief of Naval Operations, and his story of how he changed his mind was hilarious. Many of the gung-ho gonna-be-a-lifers left at the first opportunity, and that is perfectly fine.

The point is, actual AD in an operational environment is different from the SAs and other commissioning pipelines training, by its very nature. This is a classic case of “you don’t know what you don’t know,” especially at ages 17-22! After I hit the Fleet, and about in the middle of my second tour, I realized I loved what I did, thrived in operational situations, enjoyed the heck out of “my people,” and I was actually getting good at it. I started thinking about command and what it would take to get there, and realized I really wanted to go a full career.

A career, if served honorably, can be as short as 5 years or longer than 30. To the best of my knowledge, nothing in the mission statement of the various SAs specifies the production of full career officers.

The point was already made above that the system is calibrated to manpower models that have expected attrition. DOPMA is the law regarding how many officers are allowed in each paygrade, fewer and fewer as the rank increases. People have to get out, for whatever reason.

Wow there are sure some rock stars here. What a great resource. So humbled at their service! Thank you!!!

frogwoman said:

kinnem said:

LubbockDad said:

To be honest, I am quietly against a career in the military (based on my experiences), but it is his life and so I will do whatever we need to do to help him begin his path.

Click to expand...

Keep in mind that attending an academy doesn't necessarily mean a career in the military. Many folks do five and dive, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Click to expand...

I am sure I am going to receive some backlash with my response here, but I wholeheartedly disagree with "there is nothing wrong with doing the five and dive"! And I honestly wish the military could figure out who actually wanted to get into one of the academies and actually serve their country and who actually wanted to do their five and dive. My DD desperately wants to get into the USNA or USAF academy so that she can serve her country and she knows that being trained by the best of the best will ultimately help strengthen the military and feels that she would be a great asset. It's frustrating that with such fierce competition of DD & DS wanting in and others wanting to serve like my DD against those who just want in and plan on bailing.

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I get what you are saying you are passionate about wanting the best for your DD and DS. I would caution that even if one or both of them received an Appointment to any SA no one can guarantee that they will not change their mind and leave after 5 yrs. Heck every year there are a handful of Candidates who leave SA's on I-Day, R-Day. They get there and find out it just isn't for them. In my parent club we had a Mid who always wanted to attend USNa and he was in Tango Co within 2 days. He just didn't want it any more. In closing, best of luck to your kids on their future! Just remember a 17-22 yr old changes their mind. Frequently.

frogwoman said:

kinnem said:

LubbockDad said:

To be honest, I am quietly against a career in the military (based on my experiences), but it is his life and so I will do whatever we need to do to help him begin his path.

Click to expand...

Keep in mind that attending an academy doesn't necessarily mean a career in the military. Many folks do five and dive, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Click to expand...

I am sure I am going to receive some backlash with my response here, but I wholeheartedly disagree with "there is nothing wrong with doing the five and dive"! And I honestly wish the military could figure out who actually wanted to get into one of the academies and actually serve their country and who actually wanted to do their five and dive. My DD desperately wants to get into the USNA or USAF academy so that she can serve her country and she knows that being trained by the best of the best will ultimately help strengthen the military and feels that she would be a great asset. It's frustrating that with such fierce competition of DD & DS wanting in and others wanting to serve like my DD against those who just want in and plan on bailing.

Click to expand...

I sort of agree with you. My son is going through Undergraduate Pilot Training in the AF and once he gets his wings, he will have to serve 10 years. That means at a minimum he will be in the AF for at least 12 years. I have no issue with that and more importantly neither does my son, but it makes you think, four years of academy equals 5 years of service vs 1 year at UPT equals 10 years of service. I guess if you quantify by money, an academy education is worth 250,000 while UPT training is over a million and supposedly 11 million for a fighter pilot