Any improvements?

S

SCubb

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Jan 18, 2019
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I value the insights and advice of the seasoned hands in this forum. You’ve all seen every aspect of this climb, and recognize every twist and turn.
I know the admissions process for SAs is long, complex and arduous, with the added complexities of nominations, medical clearances, CFAs, lots of quality candidates, etc.
But in your years of experience, are there any suggestions you would make to improve the process? Make it quicker? More transparent? Why dont MOCs submit by Nov. 30th? Oct?
Watching people, most whom can go to almost any college they want, wait until such a late date is painful. I can only imagine how my DS is going to deal with the wait next year.
If you seasoned hands say “its really, really complicated and admissions really is doing the best they can”, then I’ll certainly believe it. But it’s hard to imagine there aren’t improvements to be made.
 
SCubb said:
I value the insights and advice of the seasoned hands in this forum. You’ve all seen every aspect of this climb, and recognize every twist and turn.
I know the admissions process for SAs is long, complex and arduous, with the added complexities of nominations, medical clearances, CFAs, lots of quality candidates, etc.
But in your years of experience, are there any suggestions you would make to improve the process? Make it quicker? More transparent? Why dont MOCs submit by Nov. 30th? Oct?
Watching people, most whom can go to almost any college they want, wait until such a late date is painful. I can only imagine how my DS is going to deal with the wait next year.
If you seasoned hands say “its really, really complicated and admissions really is doing the best they can”, then I’ll certainly believe it. But it’s hard to imagine there aren’t improvements to be made.
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Well, One reason for the late date in submitting noms is that kids need time to put their application together, put nom packages together, get SATs done, get teacher recs, etc. in the autumn after school had started. Also, although I know the wait is tough, many colleges don't hand out admittance decisions and financial aid offers until late March or April 1, nor do they generally require decisions until May 1, so personally I don't think waiting is a bad thing.
The academies have been doing this for a very very long time. I think they have the process down. Of course, if it's too hard to wait, one need not apply, but it is part of the process, and will be through many different steps in their military career. Just my 2 cents which doesn't even buy anyone a coffee.
 
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Let’s just say the process builds character, which the candidates will need at SA and on AD. There’s plenty of angst in both settings. This is likely the least angst they’d deal with over the next 9+ years. That angst, by the way, holds for applicants to civilian colleges also. They can deal with it, SA applicants can deal with it — all part of life and growing up.

By the way, this is why SA applicants should have a Plan B. That removes most of the angst. May not be their first choice, but many candidates elsewhere don’t get their first choice either. Again, it’s life.
 
MidCakePa said:
Let’s just say the process builds character, which the candidates will need at SA and on AD. There’s plenty of angst in both settings. This is likely the least angst they’d deal with over the next 9+ years. That angst, by the way, holds for applicants to civilian colleges also. They can deal with it, SA applicants can deal with it — all part of life and growing up.

By the way, this is why SA applicants should have a Plan B. That removes most of the angst. May not be their first choice, but many candidates elsewhere don’t get their first choice either. Again, it’s life.
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Adding to Mid Cake’s comments, this will not be the last time prospective Military Officers face the prospect of not getting their first choice, and I would argue it is the least emotionally challenging to deal with. Imagine the kid who dreamt their entire life of being a Marine Corp Infantry Officer and they end up as a Navy Supply Corp Officer, or the kid who always wanted to fly jets that ends up driving an Amphib Ship. Both have happened and they are far more impactful than missing out on USNA and having to take a 4 year NROTC scholarship instead. The potential disappointments become more adult as you move through the professional ranks.
 
I mean aren’t there kids waiting on Princeton and Yale too? USNA does it’s best to have a well rounded admissions board. Some of these folks come from around the yard and have other main jobs. So they do not meet 5 days a week. Doesn’t mean the hard working folks in admissions aren’t putting together briefing sheets, reviewing items, etc to prep for that week. Also the process is long because of DoDMERB and the CFA. It’s a long wait yes, but many kids are waiting right now for lots of schools. SAs have adjusted slightly over the years... LOAs being one of them. Back in my day, they were rare. Not like today rare, but less than 50 per class rare. ROTC boards take just as long. Same thing... lots of folks working to prep packages, board flies in for the few weeks, makes selections, list goes for review and then release. It is meant to be a long arduous process to weed out many. As mentioned, this won’t be the only wait someone in the military makes. It’s an entire career of waits for service selection, ship or aircraft selection, next duty station (oh and throw in a pregnant spouse due 2 weeks before you move to add some spice to life), did I get that school I wanted, oh just kidding they changed my orders a month before I was going to move, did I get command, the selection list was slated to come out next week and it’s being held and expected to be a 12 week delay. This is just a glimpse of the waits someone could very easily have... there is always a wait in the military and each one impacts the career.
 
kinnem said:
I don't think waiting is a bad thing
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MidCakePa said:
Let’s just say the process builds character
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Stork103 said:
this will not be the last time prospective Military Officers face the prospect of not getting their first choice
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NavyHoops said:
It is meant to be a long arduous process to weed out many
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THParent said:
It is really complicated, and admissions is doing the best that they can. :D
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We can always count on the seasoned hands. Above is my takeaway. "The process is hard, trust the process, get used to it... and it works in the long run."
Thanks to all. This actually helps.
 
I would say the aspect (for which there is no easy answer) that would help is to find a way for applicants to put in to a Plan B college as ED. A lot of really top schools have much higher acceptance rates for ED. They almost demand that you demonstrate your love for them by applying ED. If it were possible to apply ED to one plan B and then have the ability to withdraw because you were accepted to a federal SA, that might really help candidates. Ain’t happening, though.
 
SCubb said:
I value the insights and advice of the seasoned hands in this forum. You’ve all seen every aspect of this climb, and recognize every twist and turn.
I know the admissions process for SAs is long, complex and arduous, with the added complexities of nominations, medical clearances, CFAs, lots of quality candidates, etc.
But in your years of experience, are there any suggestions you would make to improve the process? Make it quicker? More transparent? Why dont MOCs submit by Nov. 30th? Oct?
Watching people, most whom can go to almost any college they want, wait until such a late date is painful. I can only imagine how my DS is going to deal with the wait next year.
If you seasoned hands say “its really, really complicated and admissions really is doing the best they can”, then I’ll certainly believe it. But it’s hard to imagine there aren’t improvements to be made.
Click to expand...

Looks like we will be waiting together, my DD will be applying for 2024 and I am not a patient person at all. :D I have learned so much from this forum and the advice is invaluable. I used to lurk every now and then but recently I have found myself checking several times/day hoping to read more good news from these amazing candidates who want it so badly. I can’t imagine what my life will be like next year when my own DD will be waiting. :eek:
 
SCubb said:
But in your years of experience, are there any suggestions you would make to improve the process? Make it quicker? More transparent? Why dont MOCs submit by Nov. 30th? Oct?
Click to expand...

None of us actually work in SA admissions, so not sure of the value of soliciting opinions/suggestions from us about the process. Far too many who are current applicants seem to make little efforts to read/comprehend the information on the official SA application websites (or the MOC website) and then come here asking really basic questions or the endless 'what are my chances' or 'what % of this or that'.......then stress out over the application process. Virtually the same questions get asked every year. ALL SA's are highly competitive schools and far more apply than will eventually get appointments. Those are the suggestions I would offer to anyone who is applying.

Anyone applying to a competitive school also needs to have a plan B and go from there.
 
@SCubb If it helps, they say it's harder on the parents than on the kids. Seemed to be the case with my son when applying for an NROTC scholarship, and we didn't get a reply until April 15 thanking him for his inquiry, so he started without a scholarship.
 
IMO, the process and wait is a ‘badge of honor’ so to speak. Makes admittance all the more special! This is part of
joining a program that is regarded as the best in the WORLD. Other nations send people to our academies. Their heads of state attend Iday ceremonies. Their is honor and pride that comes from the wait. If it were easy, or without worry/stress/angst, the reward wouldn’t be as great.

I especially appreciate the ‘wait’ in these days of instant gratification that our youth only know. They have no idea what waiting really means (they will get a good taste when they return to snail-mail communication only during their summer). I also think this ‘wait’ and the whole process is a very physical reminder they can draw upon when they face challenging times ahead. They can draw upon how ‘difficult’ it was for them to actually set foot on the yard. They can emote that feeling of knowing how challenging it was to get to where they are.

Even if the process were able to get “easier”, I personally wouldn’t want it to be easier. I want my DS to remember how hard he worked to get where he is. And to remember how lucky and blessed and fortunate he is that he is there! Because there are many other equally qualified amazing people that didn’t get the chance. I think the process is humbling. Which is good imo.

I do think the process is ‘easier’ without places like this. Where candidates/parents ‘see’ what the other person ‘got’. And start comparing. Which is normal! But that’s all self-brought worry/stress/angst. There IS a remedy for that: stay away. Harder said than done. But there is a cost to having all this information available 24/7.
 
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SCubb said:
If you seasoned hands say “its really, really complicated and admissions really is doing the best they can”, then I’ll certainly believe it. But it’s hard to imagine there aren’t improvements to be made.
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1) IT IS a unique (except for other Service Academies) process. The Ivy's don't have to deal with Medical, CFA or nominations.
I've been involved for over 15 years, and I do think it is a pretty good system.

2) Every system has room for improvement, and I know that USNA Admissions continuously adjusts its process. However, keep in mind,
I wouldn't expect that instant gratification of candidates is a high priority.

3) Most of the problems are self created, the process itself is pretty simple -submit the best application you can, as promptly as possible (both USNA and Nominations), and let the system work. I see a lot of angst created by this Forum, as candidates and parents try to figure out exactly how the decision is made. Again, after 15+ years, I still haven't figured it out.

time2 said:
None of us actually work in SA admissions, so not sure of the value of soliciting opinions/suggestions from us about the process.
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The issue is that most of the people here don't know enough about the process or internal workings at USNA Admissions to make informed suggestions. Most of the people here focus on their own experience, and as I often say here, one data point doesn't make a trend. There are alot of forces at play in the Admissions process. That said, if there is truly a suggestion that can improve the process, fire away ...there are several BGO's onboard here, and we have a process for making suggestions to Admissions.
 
Old Navy BGO said:
SCubb said:
If you seasoned hands say “its really, really complicated and admissions really is doing the best they can”, then I’ll certainly believe it. But it’s hard to imagine there aren’t improvements to be made.
Click to expand...

1) IT IS a unique (except for other Service Academies) process. The Ivy's don't have to deal with Medical, CFA or nominations.
I've been involved for over 15 years, and I do think it is a pretty good system.

2) Every system has room for improvement, and I know that USNA Admissions continuously adjusts its process. However, keep in mind,
I wouldn't expect that instant gratification of candidates is a high priority.

3) Most of the problems are self created, the process itself is pretty simple -submit the best application you can, as promptly as possible (both USNA and Nominations), and let the system work. I see a lot of angst created by this Forum, as candidates and parents try to figure out exactly how the decision is made. Again, after 15+ years, I still haven't figured it out.

time2 said:
None of us actually work in SA admissions, so not sure of the value of soliciting opinions/suggestions from us about the process.
Click to expand...

The issue is that most of the people here don't know enough about the process or internal workings at USNA Admissions to make informed suggestions. Most of the people here focus on their own experience, and as I often say here, one data point doesn't make a trend. There are alot of forces at play in the Admissions process. That said, if there is truly a suggestion that can improve the process, fire away ...there are several BGO's onboard here, and we have a process for making suggestions to Admissions.
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I for one would love to know what goes into the admissions thought process. My DD unfortunately got that TWE email this morning and we are completely dumbfounded. She exceeded all of the criteria they were looking for from the SAT scores, GPA, athletics, medically qualified, was invited to STEM, got into NASS, has 3 generations of family members in the navy with a grandfather who was a Rear Admiral in the Navy and served with Nimitz in WWII and received Navy's distinguished metal of honor for helping control malaria, a grandfather who was a navy seal during the vietnam war and her father who served 9 years so our family has a long history, which the navy is huge on tradition. She wants to serve her country and do physics or engineering. Her BGO said she was his top candidate and would bet his car on her getting in, and yet she got that damn TWE this morning and is devastated. The damn generic TWE says to reapply next year after she makes improvements on her application............ Honestly, none of the above can get much higher than they already are. I shake my head. Makes no sense............. Yes, I understand there are many qualified candidates and congratulations to all. I read about the amazing candidates and I am in aw on what tremendous bunch of kids that are out there and super impressed.
 
I should probably stay away from this post, but...

frogwoman said:
I for one would love to know what goes into the admissions thought process. My DD unfortunately got that TWE email this morning and we are completely dumbfounded. She exceeded all of the criteria they were looking for from the SAT scores, GPA, athletics, medically qualified, was invited to STEM, got into NASS,
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I'm sure your daughter is a fine young woman, but this is a competition and it's possible for very fast runners to still lose any given race. NASS and STEM participation have nothing to do with appointments BTW, since you're looking for their reasoning.

has 3 generations of family members in the navy with a grandfather who was a Rear Admiral in the Navy and served with Nimitz in WWII and received Navy's distinguished metal of honor for helping control malaria, a grandfather who was a navy seal during the vietnam war and her father who served 9 years so our family has a long history, which the navy is huge on tradition.
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I'm glad to see she had such examples to inspire her, but these are their accomplishments, not hers. Do legacy's get some points? Probably. Does it guarantee them an appointment? No.

She wants to serve her country and do physics or engineering. Her BGO said she was his top candidate and would bet his car on her getting in,
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That's great and I'm sure she was HIS top candidate. But he doesn't sit on the admissions boards.

and yet she got that damn TWE this morning and is devastated. The damn generic TWE says to reapply next year after she makes improvements on her application............ Honestly, none of the above can get much higher than they already are. I shake my head. Makes no sense............. Yes, I understand there are many qualified candidates and congratulations to all. I read about the amazing candidates and I am in aw on what tremendous bunch of kids that are out there and super impressed.
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I certainly understand her disappointment and yours. Truly I do. Take some time to grieve and then, after the dust has settled, reconsider re-applying, or not if that's the path she chooses.

I wish you all nothing but the best.
 
Back in 2015, my DS received his TWE from USNA four years ago almost to the day. He was disappointed but dusted himself off and proceeded with Plan B.

Cut to today, he commissions through Army ROTC this May 15th, and will proceed to Ft. Benning as an Active Duty Armor Officer. He thoroughly enjoyed his ROTC experience, enjoyed being a snowboard instructor on the weekends and made the Dean's list several times.

Plan B can become Plan A+
 
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