How important is Boys State?

My son is a Junior this year and will be applying to USMA. We are debating on whether or not he should attend Boys State and if it would improve his chances in any way if he already a lot of leadership points. His dad who is a USMA grad and former USMA admissions officer said that it makes no sense for him to go because his leadership points have already been maxed out. He hasn't taken the SAT yet, but his GPA is a little low at 3.5. Below is a copy of his "resume." My opinion is that it can't hurt him and everything being equal with another applicant it could be a deciding factor. Thoughts?

Leadership
Selected and attended JROTC Cadet Leadership Challenge (JCLC)-10th Stuttgart High School JROTC Winners of 2018 JCLC

Selected and attended S2S Frances Hessellbein Leadership Program at West Point Military Academy-11th-20 students selected worldwide

Selected and attended International Student Leadership Program at Oberweisel, Germany-11th

JROTC Honor Corp 1LT - Company XO-11th

JROTC Honor Corp Battalion Commander-12th (next year)

Wrestling Team Captain-11th
Track Team Captain-11th
Cross Country Captain-11th

Clubs
Student2Stutdent Club-President
Military Child Education Coalition-Student Advisory Council

Athletics
Cross Country- 1 JV letter-9th, 1 Varsity letter-11th
Football-1 JV letter-10th
Track & Field-3 Varsity Letters-9th, 10th , 11th
Wrestling-1 JV letter-9th, 2 Varsity letter-10th,11th
KSV Musberg German Wrestling team (Oberliga)- 11th

Volunteer
CYS Track & Field Volunteer Coach-9th, 11th
CYS Wrestling Coach-10th, 11th
MWR Special Events Volunteer- 9th, 10th, 11th
Army Community Service (ACS)Middle School Integration Event-11th
Harriet Tubman Chapter Spring Bazaar-11th

Awards
Advanced to European Track championship-9th, 10th
Advanced to European Wrestling Championship-10th, 11th, placed 3rd overall in weight class
Voted “Most Improved” wrestler by coaches and teammates-10th

Does he have a conflict with going to Boys State this summer? If not, he should go. Not for the leadership points for his USMA application, but to experience the program.

Why wouldn't he go?

It is a great program and is specifically listed on the app so the SA’s all think highly of the program. If he is able I would say go.

He spends the summers with his dad during the time of the particular Boys State that he was selected and sponsored for. His dad doesn't think it's necessary so he won't support him going. I am trying to get him into a Boys State that runs before he goes to his dad's for the summer, but that means he will be missing the last two weeks of school for Boys State then USMA SLE and possibly USNA NASS. I would also have to pay for an additional flight from Germany to send him since his flight to USMA has already been booked. I will literally have to jump through hoops to make it happen for him.

I believe that Boys State is more important than SLE or NASS especially given the family knowledge of the military. There is no application benefit for either of those programs, and maxed out or not, Boys State does provide leadership points. What does your son want to do?

You have stated that your DS's father is a former USMA admissions officer. With this being the case, he is probably more experienced with how the admissions process works than 99.9% of us in this forum. If he knows the metrics and already know that your DS can't improve in the leadership category, then I would follow his lead. Just my humble opinion.

humblebeginnings said:

You have stated that your DS's father is a former USMA admissions officer. With this being the case, he is probably more experienced with how the admissions process works than 99.9% of us in this forum. If he knows the metrics and already know that your DS can't improve in the leadership category, then I would follow his lead. Just my humble opinion.

Click to expand...

I'm sure that's the case, but I don't want to wonder if he doesn't make it in by a margin, could attending Boys State have tipped the scales in his favor. I just don't want to compromise his chances in any way.

cptenca said:

I believe that Boys State is more important than SLE or NASS especially given the family knowledge of the military. There is no application benefit for either of those programs, and maxed out or not, Boys State does provide leadership points. What does your son want to do?

Click to expand...

He wants to go and it would not conflict with SLE which he wants to go to as well.

FCH76 said:

humblebeginnings said:

You have stated that your DS's father is a former USMA admissions officer. With this being the case, he is probably more experienced with how the admissions process works than 99.9% of us in this forum. If he knows the metrics and already know that your DS can't improve in the leadership category, then I would follow his lead. Just my humble opinion.

Click to expand...

I'm sure that's the case, but I don't want to wonder if he doesn't make it in by a margin, could attending Boys State have tipped the scales in his favor. I just don't want to compromise his chances in any way.

Click to expand...

There are many people who were appointed that did not attend Boys/Girls State, SLE or NASS with my DD being one of them. With that being said, I understand your position of wanting to give your DS the best footing possible for an appointment. That's what we as parents do. If your son wants to attend and you can work out the logistics then yes send him. I'm sure that his father will understand that he made a decision and sacrificed his father/son time to better himself.

There are many people who were appointed that did not attend Boys/Girls State, SLE or NASS with my DD being one of them. With that being said, I understand your position of wanting to give your DS the best footing possible for an appointment. That's what we as parents do. If your son wants to attend and you can work out the logistics then yes send him. I'm sure that his father will understand that he made a decision and sacrificed his father/son time to better himself.[/QUOTE]

My guess is that the dad wont understand as he already said it wont benefit him and it is cutting into his time

It really is unique to each candidate and the strength of their profile. My 2019 was offered both SLE and Boys state. He contacted his RC who advised him based on the strength of his leadership score to take SLE over boys state.

So if there is a question...the applicant should discuss with their RC who is in position to offer the best guidance

@JWP

JWP said:

It really is unique to each candidate and the strength of their profile. My 2019 was offered both SLE and Boys state. He contacted his RC who advised him based on the strength of his leadership score to take SLE over boys state.

Click to expand...

Just curious - given the kids looking at Boys State versus SLE have only submitted their SLE apps and not even opened their full candidate files, how would the RC be able to advise - was it just based on the SLE app or did they have a discussion on his leadership roles?

Not an Eagle Scout. I would go w Boys State to ensure those points are covered. However what does your son want to do? No other time to see dad? .

Again your kid has this once in a lifetime opportunity—it has to be worth more than just points for USMA admissions.

We had numerous briefings from our RC over time and he, and the admissions staff we met on campus, all pointed to Boys State as a preference over SLE. My son actually got to do both as the timing worked out. He loved both experiences. Boy's State is a great primer on the political process and also on how to quickly assimilate with strangers from all over the State. Given politics dictates how the military is funded, where the military is utilized overseas, and appropriations for weapon systems, I think it is pretty darn important.

williamsdr3 said:

@JWP

JWP said:

It really is unique to each candidate and the strength of their profile. My 2019 was offered both SLE and Boys state. He contacted his RC who advised him based on the strength of his leadership score to take SLE over boys state.

Click to expand...

Just curious - given the kids looking at Boys State versus SLE have only submitted their SLE apps and not even opened their full candidate files, how would the RC be able to advise - was it just based on the SLE app or did they have a discussion on his leadership roles?

Click to expand...

Not sure what the RC had access to but to the best of my understanding, he did explain to my son based on the strength of his leadership experience (he was not an Eagle Scout) he felt his leadership points were pretty much maxed out. 2019 handled all the correspondence and I was fortunate enough to get an update from time to time lol.

Very!!!!!! If your DS is not an Eagle Scout and don’t go to Boys State then he’s not maxed out. Please go!!!!

JWP said:

It really is unique to each candidate and the strength of their profile. My 2019 was offered both SLE and Boys state. He contacted his RC who advised him based on the strength of his leadership score to take SLE over boys state.

So if there is a question...the applicant should discuss with their RC who is in position to offer the best guidance

Click to expand...

When my DS was a senior in H.S., he had a sit down with his RC who reviewed his whole file that had already been submitted. At the time, he had gone to Boys State and was a Life Scout. He was worried about not yet having his Eagle Scout. His RC told him that based upon his file, he also had already "maxed"out his leadership points before even going to Boys State and not having yet completed his Eagle Scout. So, yes, the RC, can review all of your leadership positions and assess where you stand to see if you "need" Boys State. BTW, my DS did get his Eagle, but didn't finish it until after he already has his appointment.

At some point it has to be if your son wants the experience or not. Boys and girls state are great programs and if he wants to go he should. It gives the kids immersive experiences of how the branch’s of govt actually work. It’s not like jrrotc or ssl it doesn’t have anything to do with the military so it’s a completely different experience. It’s not really about maxing the points in my opinion, it is about the life experience they take away from it. All 4 of my daughters went to girls state and all had an amazing understanding of how our government works when they returned from that week. A better understanding than a semester in us government class.
Let your son decide!