NAPS Question

Does anyone know why there are candidates like myself that are too qualified to go to NAPS yet there is the possibility of us still not getting in? Wouldn't it make more sense to send those that barely miss offer of appointments to NAPS rather than those that are scholastically, physically, whatever the reason may be less qualified? I guess in my mind it doesn't seem fair to those who are more qualified.

The bottom line is there are so many more qualified kids than there are spots. There are also lots of kids who have tons of the qualities USNA looks for who are missing just a box or two. For some it might be geographics. Example, we had a candidate two years ago who went to a tiny high school. Highest math class they had was pre-Calc, no AP offerings. 10 kids in his class. He took several additional courses remotely like Calc, but Chem is one that is sort of hard without a lab. This kid had it all on his app to include amazing athlete (he played some AAU stuff too) but access to some of the higher level courses he really needed was not one of them. He did go to NAPS and it was 100% the right call. Another candidate might have it all with classes and everything, but their ACT might be lacking. It’s really complex as there is no black and white. Maybe a kid whose parents live overseas and they were educated in a foreign education system. A year of getting comfortable back in the US and fine tuning in core courses could really help them.There are so many great candidates and not enough spots. Someone with a 1480, 4 on Calc AB and similar stats with Chem and calc... prep probably isn’t the answer.

NavyHoops said:

The bottom line is there are so many more qualified kids than there are spots. There are also lots of kids who have tons of the qualities USNA looks for who are missing just a box or two. For some it might be geographics. Example, we had a candidate two years ago who went to a tiny high school. Highest math class they had was pre-Calc, no AP offerings. 10 kids in his class. He took several additional courses remotely like Calc, but Chem is one that is sort of hard without a lab. This kid had it all on his app to include amazing athlete (he played some AAU stuff too) but access to some of the higher level courses he really needed was not one of them. He did go to NAPS and it was 100% the right call. Another candidate might have it all with classes and everything, but their ACT might be lacking. It’s really complex as there is no black and white. Maybe a kid whose parents live overseas and they were educated in a foreign education system. A year of getting comfortable back in the US and fine tuning in core courses could really help them.There are so many great candidates and not enough spots. Someone with a 1480, 4 on Calc AB and similar stats with Chem and calc... prep probably isn’t the answer.

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Ok. That makes sense.

It's a lot more complicated than that. NAPS is not, and was never intended to be for the runners up. There are simply too many highly qualified candidates to send to NAPS.

First, keep in mind, the original purpose of NAPS is to prepare enlisted sailors and Marines who have been identified for their leadership potential. Beyond that, NAPS has evolved into a program to prepare persons that Admissions has identified as having good potential, but lacking something (usually Academic preparation) that would enable them to succeed at USNA. Finally and bottom line, if a candidate is already fully qualified, but fell just short on the competitive slate, there really isn't much that NAPS can do to better prepare the candidate.

(NOTE --Agree with 'HOOPs, I was typing this when her response was posted)

NAPS is a preparatory school. If a candidate is fully qualified in every category, there really is nothing to "prepare" for. Candidates who are fully qualified and do not get an offer of an appointment should simply reapply. Instead of going to NAPS, those candidates will be attending another university for their freshman year. Every year, there are always quite a few (not an insignificant number) who were previously unsuccessful candidates who were fully qualified who earn appointments. There are always more fully qualified candidates than there are openings for an incoming class.

Let's face it, NAPS is mostly about academic preparation. I don't think anybody is ever sent to NAPS so that they can do a few more push-ups but who were, otherwise, fully qualified academically. NAPS is primarily for 1) highly sought after athletes who are not quite ready academically, 2) prior enlisted personnel who have been away from academics for a while and may need to get back in the swing of things and 3) "diversity" candidates who are not ready academically. There is almost always an academic component.

Anybody who has ever claimed that "My son/daughter was fully qualified and sent to NAPS because the class was already full" is usually mistaken (or misrepresenting) about why their son/daughter is being offered NAPS.

Invariably, somebody gets offended when academic deficiency is mentioned because they are unwilling to accept that it has been determined that their son/daughter is "not quite ready" for the rigors of Naval Academy academics. Yet, they should remember that the academy finds something about their son/daughter that is so highly desirable that they prefer them - as opposed to a more academically qualified candidate - and that's why they have been offered NAPS. It's not always about academic qualifications.

You can't have a competitive Division I sports program based on ACT scores.

So, is a foundation scholarship criteria the same as a NAPS appointment? These candidates need additional prep so they are offered a foundation scholarship because of limited spots at the Prep school? I have read contracting explanations on foundation scholarships.

Memphis9489 said:

NAPS is a preparatory school. If a candidate is fully qualified in every category, there really is nothing to "prepare" for. Candidates who are fully qualified and do not get an offer of an appointment should simply reapply. Instead of going to NAPS, those candidates will be attending another university for their freshman year. Every year, there are always quite a few (not an insignificant number) who were previously unsuccessful candidates who were fully qualified who earn appointments. There are always more fully qualified candidates than there are openings for an incoming class.

Let's face it, NAPS is mostly about academic preparation. I don't think anybody is ever sent to NAPS so that they can do a few more push-ups but who were, otherwise, fully qualified academically. NAPS is primarily for 1) highly sought after athletes who are not quite ready academically, 2) prior enlisted personnel who have been away from academics for a while and may need to get back in the swing of things and 3) "diversity" candidates who are not ready academically. There is almost always an academic component.

Anybody who has ever claimed that "My son/daughter was fully qualified and sent to NAPS because the class was already full" is usually mistaken (or misrepresenting) about why their son/daughter is being offered NAPS.

Invariably, somebody gets offended when academic deficiency is mentioned because they are unwilling to accept that it has been determined that their son/daughter is "not quite ready" for the rigors of Naval Academy academics. Yet, they should remember that the academy finds something about their son/daughter that is so highly desirable that they prefer them - as opposed to a more academically qualified candidate - and that's why they have been offered NAPS. It's not always about academic qualifications.

You can't have a competitive Division I sports program based on ACT scores.

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I think kids with Special Skills and Diverse talents, the ones that are Not important in the classroom, also get noticed .... examples, Piano Virtuoso, gobs of Writing Awards, and so.
.
Skills that don't show on Transcripts .... And many kids are Not pushed to get Straight A's, and C's are Ok by their parents .... and they take all the Hard Courses before the 12th grade, are Multi-Sport, are in 4H, are in JROTC, Perform for their church every Sunday, and on and on .... And these kids usefully perform Very well on the SAT and ACT.
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So, since their Grades are not indicative of their abilities, NAPS will get them reoriented to the Fast-Paced classroom mindset ....
.

Would it be appropriate for DS to ask his BGO if his file has been reviewed yet? We are holding out perhaps a thin sliver of hope for NAPS before deciding on Plan B or C school. Plan B school has given financial motivation to decide by 3/31 (additional scholarship). I say "thin" because DS did not receive a nom and does not fit any of the three criteria listed above from Memphis9489, although he could use an extra year of math prep. We live in a competitive region and DS was told by his MOC that his math scores kept him from receiving a nom. Really, we're just trying to determine if it's a long shot for him or if he stands a reasonable chance.

VT93 said:

Would it be appropriate for DS to ask his BGO if his file has been reviewed yet?

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NO ! It is not appropriate to ask. First, BGO's are not supposed to tell you , either way. Second, the appropriate response from the BGO is that USNA will let you know, one way or another, by April 15. Asking the questions suggests that 1) you didn't read the Admissions website, or 2) you don't have the discipline to wait patiently. Waiting is a trait that comes in handy in the Navy.

I do understand how difficult it is to wait patiently...my DD just got accepted to the grad school she wanted last night. That said, all the angst and impatience is is self induced, and fed by a combination of the desire for instant gratification and the information age.

Thanks for the guidance. We’re actually fine with waiting, knowing the 4/15 date. It was the $ part that was making it a bit more challenging

Call the school and ask if they can push the date to 4/15. What is the worst they can say... no. Or what is the impact if he says yes to the scholarship and backs out?

Dr. Strange Love said:

Memphis9489 said:

NAPS is a preparatory school. If a candidate is fully qualified in every category, there really is nothing to "prepare" for. Candidates who are fully qualified and do not get an offer of an appointment should simply reapply. Instead of going to NAPS, those candidates will be attending another university for their freshman year. Every year, there are always quite a few (not an insignificant number) who were previously unsuccessful candidates who were fully qualified who earn appointments. There are always more fully qualified candidates than there are openings for an incoming class.

Let's face it, NAPS is mostly about academic preparation. I don't think anybody is ever sent to NAPS so that they can do a few more push-ups but who were, otherwise, fully qualified academically. NAPS is primarily for 1) highly sought after athletes who are not quite ready academically, 2) prior enlisted personnel who have been away from academics for a while and may need to get back in the swing of things and 3) "diversity" candidates who are not ready academically. There is almost always an academic component.

Anybody who has ever claimed that "My son/daughter was fully qualified and sent to NAPS because the class was already full" is usually mistaken (or misrepresenting) about why their son/daughter is being offered NAPS.

Invariably, somebody gets offended when academic deficiency is mentioned because they are unwilling to accept that it has been determined that their son/daughter is "not quite ready" for the rigors of Naval Academy academics. Yet, they should remember that the academy finds something about their son/daughter that is so highly desirable that they prefer them - as opposed to a more academically qualified candidate - and that's why they have been offered NAPS. It's not always about academic qualifications.

You can't have a competitive Division I sports program based on ACT scores.

Click to expand...

.
I think kids with Special Skills and Diverse talents, the ones that are Not important in the classroom, also get noticed .... examples, Piano Virtuoso, gobs of Writing Awards, and so.
.
Skills that don't show on Transcripts .... And many kids are Not pushed to get Straight A's, and C's are Ok by their parents .... and they take all the Hard Courses before the 12th grade, are Multi-Sport, are in 4H, are in JROTC, Perform for their church every Sunday, and on and on .... And these kids usefully perform Very well on the SAT and ACT.
.
So, since their Grades are not indicative of their abilities, NAPS will get them reoriented to the Fast-Paced classroom mindset ....
.

Click to expand...

I wish what you describe above was common - and maybe I'm being a bit too cynical - but I think it is actually quite rare (to nonexistent) as far as describing the typical profile of a NAPS appointee today. First of all, there's no question that the majority of NAPS appointments are related to sports. As described by another poster, NAPS used to have another mission - a different focus. But the Naval Academy has moved in concert with most schools that have a Division I sports program. More emphasis is placed on sports and obtaining the talented athletes it needs to make those programs successful or, at least, respectable - certainly more profitable.

NAPS isn't about getting prospective standouts to perform in the Masqueraders (theater group). For lack of better terms, I'm convinced the Naval Academy is less interested in the "soft talents" and is far more interested in the "hard talents" - the type of aptitudes that immediately translate to value to both the Naval Academy and the Navy. That would be sports and leadership. The athletes provide the needed talent to the Naval Academy's sports programs - prior enlisted students provide the needed leadership to the Navy - and the "diverse" students facilitate the Navy's quest to interject more diversity in its officer corps, a mission that it has been aggressively pursuing for a decade - ever since it was declared as the Navy's "number one mission" by the Secretary of the Navy (2009-2017), Ray Mabus .

So, while I'm sure the profile of a NAPS appointee like the one you've described has probably occurred at one time or another, I'm convinced it's quite rare. I do know that there is a history of the Admissions Board being manifestly unimpressed, for instance, with a candidate's participation in a JROTC program if that candidate, for instance, has not played four years of a sport. And, although active participation in a 4H program may be a good bullet on a candidate's resume, ultimately, Animal Husbandry is not an available course in any Naval Academy curriculum. That would be what I would label as a "soft talent" - right alongside with being a talented pianist - nice ancillary skills but not really what the Navy is looking for in their premiere officer procurement program. A candidate would be better off having won a Science Fair.

Memphis9489 said:

for instance, with a candidate's participation in a JROTC program if that candidate, for instance, has not played four years of a sport.

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So since I did four years of JROTC and am now the Battalion Commander in addition to playing four years of football, does that help my chances?

It won’t hurt your chances. I think it’s great points to your WCS and speaks to some great leadership roles, but it comes down to what you did with those roles. Titles don’t mean much if you don’t demonstrate leadership. That is the difficult part and what BGOs try to dive into during interviews, what essays help scope and LORs to help provide a full story. Bottom line, You are looking for black and white answers to a system that is very complex and very few knows the behind scenes details.

JoeAmerican0921 said:

Does anyone know why there are candidates like myself that are too qualified to go to NAPS yet there is the possibility of us still not getting in? Wouldn't it make more sense to send those that barely miss offer of appointments to NAPS rather than those that are scholastically, physically, whatever the reason may be less qualified? I guess in my mind it doesn't seem fair to those who are more qualified.

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I’ve often wondered that very thing.

NavyHoops said:

The bottom line is there are so many more qualified kids than there are spots. There are also lots of kids who have tons of the qualities USNA looks for who are missing just a box or two. For some it might be geographics. Example, we had a candidate two years ago who went to a tiny high school. Highest math class they had was pre-Calc, no AP offerings. 10 kids in his class. He took several additional courses remotely like Calc, but Chem is one that is sort of hard without a lab. This kid had it all on his app to include amazing athlete (he played some AAU stuff too) but access to some of the higher level courses he really needed was not one of them. He did go to NAPS and it was 100% the right call. Another candidate might have it all with classes and everything, but their ACT might be lacking. It’s really complex as there is no black and white. Maybe a kid whose parents live overseas and they were educated in a foreign education system. A year of getting comfortable back in the US and fine tuning in core courses could really help them.There are so many great candidates and not enough spots. Someone with a 1480, 4 on Calc AB and similar stats with Chem and calc... prep probably isn’t the answer.

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The point he’s asking is that it’s odd to give those missing the academics a path and then to tell those already academically and physically qualified No because there are simply too many great candidates meeting all the qualities each year.

mcfamilyof4 said:

The point he’s asking is that it’s odd to give those missing the academics a path and then to tell those already academically and physically qualified No because there are simply too many great candidates meeting all the qualities each year.

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It still has to be recognized that a candidate who has certain other desirable attributes (like athletic talent), yet is slightly deficient academically, may be a preferred candidate over one who is more academically qualified. Or, maybe the less academically qualified candidate helps the academy meet its "diversity" goal. Or maybe the less academically qualified candidate has demonstrated some highly desirable leadership traits that the more academically qualified candidate did not.

It's not as if only the most academically qualified candidates are the ones who get appointments. And, there's no point in sending them to NAPS if they are academically qualified. Just reapply or move on with your life.

The Naval Academy is not the only college that doesn't accept every applicant who is "qualified". There are always more applicants than spots and, sadly, some outstanding candidates are inevitably going to be left behind. It seems unfair but it has been like that for a very long time and it will probably not change in the future.

I’m just seeing this thread now but I am currently at naps and it should be known there is a fairly large percentage of people who DID get in almost SOLELY on academics and were/ are not in physical shape. Not everyone here is an athlete, nor “academically insufficient”.. also, in defense of the part about people saying they got in because the class was already full I can say not only do we have several HS valedictorians, but personally that I came from Northern VA- the most competitive area- where tons of kids got appointed; at my picnic just for the northern tip there were 40 directs and two napsters. I got a perfect english ACT, 27 math, senator nominated, multiple time state runner up and recruited athlete in three track events, brother who went to navy, lead role in many plays, captain of several teams, etc. I normally am not one to brag on that stuff but seeing that some people think Naps is just for kids who are athletes, while in some cases is true for powerhouse D1 kids, there’s also very many factors that play into it, and I was told that I was somewhat of “a product of overflow”. The miconception of everyone here being fit is also a bigger deal than people tend to think, because while most athletes have been able to show improvement in their grades, some who came for grades are now in extreme danger of not getting appointed because they now have two weeks to pass the PRT. It gets more competitive every year so these miconceptions may have at one point been true but overall they now look at everyone as a whole person. A lot of the athletes here were already interested in Navy and showed promise as a LEADER before even getting recruited. Don’t undermine other candidates’ value because you feel as though it should be you instead. Everyone has valuable attributes they keep to themselves and perhaps if you are struggling with why it wasn’t you, you should take a step back and evaluate your own humility.

JoeAmerican0921 said:

I guess in my mind it doesn't seem fair to those who are more qualified.

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Beware your presumption that you are more qualified than others! Especially if you are using surface-level evidence such as GPA or ACT/SAT test scores. There is so much more — so much more! — to this than the highly obvious academic markers.

USNA measures the whole person — emphasis on whole. They’ve been at this for a while, so they know what the best-qualified candidates and future officers look like far better than you do.

Beware presumptions should you be appointed to USNA. At Plebe Summer, you will find yourself constantly surprised and humbled. That pencil-neck nerd in glasses — he is more physically fit than you but has the grace to hang back so that you don’t finish the run by yourself. That thick-neck muscle-head who grunts his way through lectures — he is a chem and call ace who has the kindness to tutor those falling behind. That meek-looking petite woman who practically drowns in her white works — she is the boldest leader in the company.

Check your presumptions — and attitude — at the gates. Otherwise you will find yourself humbled, and not in a pretty way. USNA has a way of exposing the good — and the bad — ones.

I think the OP recently received a TWE. Great posts by many. To the current NAPSter, good post. Actually you will be surprised how many at USNA struggle with the PRT. NAPS isn’t alone with that. It actually surprised me when I got to USNA. Big difference between the CFA and PRT. And at some point you have to take the responsibility of being fit on your own. Plebe Year there are lots of mandatory workouts, but eventually that goes away too and someone is now a youngster who can do what they want with their time. You will see folks struggle with a variety of things at USNA. Where one struggles another will thrive. It’s about asking for help when needed and helping one another out. NAPSters tend to do well Plebe Summer and then the playing field evens out around the 6 week mark of Plebe Year.