Army R.O.T.C. to pilot

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My girl.attie

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My DS received his TWE this morning from the USAFA. He wants to be a pilot and would like to pursue that at his plan B university but unfortunately the school does not offer or is affiliated with another school’s AFROTC. If he went to the Army ROTC route, does he still have a chance to be a pilot or would he be better off going to his plan C school with AFROTC? Also, if reapplying next year, would USAFA care that he did Army ROTC and would his commanding officer be able to nominate him for USAFA? Thank in advance for your help.
 
Depends on what he wants to fly. Army has rotary and some (small I believe) number of fixed wing aircraft. Does he have either an AROTC and/or AFROTC scholarship?
 
He is interested in flying rotary. No scholarships. I read somewhere in one of the forums that going to AROTC to pilot was a rarity and that most get assigned based on needs upon graduation. Being new to SA and ROTC world, I’m not sure how everything works.
 
Well, you raise a good point regarding opportunities to get a pilot slot via AROTC. I don't know the answer to that but hopefully others here will.
 
There is a poster on here who has two DSs I believe are Army pilots. I think getting pilot in the Army is harder than in the USAF. I also really think your DS needs to look at ‘what if’. What if some reason he doesn’t fly or isn’t medically qualified to? The services in this regard are very different in selections. Both services are great, but are different in personality and mission.
 
I can add a little bit of clarification here.

Army is not necessarily "harder" than the Air Force to wing, however it is much harder for a regular officer to remain an Army Aviator past O-3/4. The bulk of Army Aviators are Warrant Officers. Warrant Officers receive their commission via the Warrant Officer Commissioning School at Fort Rucker, AL. There is no route comparable to AROTC for Warrants-- it's just WOCS at Fort Rucker. Similarly, a degree is not technically required for a warrant commission, but it is definitely helpful.

And yes, the majority of Army Aviators are rotary-wing. Fixed-wing options are pretty limited (mostly single or dual-engined props like the C-12) and usually only initially offered to the top percentage of students in each class after primary flight training (again at Fort Rucker). In each class, you're looking at maybe 10-15% of the seats being open to regular officers.

It is not at all uncommon for O-3's to switch to warrant in order to stay flying rather than moving into command.

Army Aviation is a really great option, as long as you are comfortable with the loss of lifetime earnings (warrant pay is significantly less than regular officer pay), very limited promotion opportunities past CW4, and you have no aversion to spending a lot of time in Enterprise, Alabama.

The Air Force has warrant officer billets, but has not filled them since the late 70s. I believe the last USAF warrant officer was a reservist that retired in 92 or 93. The Air Force chooses to put the bulk of WO-level responsibilities on SNCO's and seasoned O-3's. l
 
NavyHoops hit the nail on the head, your son really needs to think about which service he would be best suited for if he does not get a pilot slot. There are opportunities in both branches but they are very different in the specific jobs. Figuring out where he would best fit is the first step.

That being said, I may be the one that NavyHoops was referring to, I have two sons that both branched Aviation in the Army. While Army AV is competitive and there are a lot of cadets that may desire the branch, there is a lot that comes into play before the selections are made. First, anyone that branches active duty Army AV has a 6 year service obligation instead of the standard 4 year obligation, some choose not to commit to those two extra years. To be eligible for Army AV the cadet must first pass the SIFT (Think flight aptitude test), then they need to pass a Flight Physical which is more complete then the standard DODMERB physical. Both of these tend to shrink the pool of qualified applicants.

While competitive, ROTC does branch a pretty good number to AV each year. The key is to keep the GPA up and the APFT as well as doing well in ROTC and the Advanced Camp. This does not mean the cadet needs to be at the top of the class to branch AV, they select about 55% from the top part of the OML and the rest are selected from the rest of the OML so every year there are cadets that were lower down the OML that still get AV.

One option that Army ROTC has that the other branches do not is that the cadet can choose to go National Guard, they can look for a unit that has AV openings and get a LOA from them to branch AV. This can be an easier way to get AV if they don't think their chances are good for active duty.

There is another option for Army AV that the other branches do not have. Your son could skip ROTC altogether, complete their degree and apply for the Army WOFT (Warrant Officer Flight Training), they actually don't need a degree to apply but it does help.

The thing that is different for Army AV compared to the other service branches is that in Army AV the Warrants will actually fly much more over their career then a commissioned officer. In the Army a commissioned officer is an Aviation Officer first, they do fly about the same as a Warrant for the first 2 or 3 years but they will move to staff and mission planning after that and their flight time will decrease. In the other branches commissioned officers are the only ones that fly and their main job will be being a pilot. A plus for an Army commissioned AV officer is that they will be a platoon/flight line troop leader right out of the gate and be in a leadership position much quicker, but it also means they will fly less then their Warrants.

It all depends on what your son is looking for in his time in the service, if he stays in for just his initial obligation then he will get both leadership roles and flight time, if he stays in longer his role in Army AV will lean toward the leadership side.

Feel free to ask any questions and I will try and relay the experiences both sons have had.
 
Tbpxece said:
Fixed-wing options are pretty limited (mostly single or dual-engined props like the C-12) and usually only initially offered to the top percentage of students in each class after primary flight training (again at Fort Rucker). In each class, you're looking at maybe 10-15% of the seats being open to regular officers.
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This is not really how it works anymore. The Army has gone to a Fixed Wing for life plan and they are now giving the slots during flight school. The days of a rotary pilot deciding to switch to fixed wing later is really not an option unless they switch to MI. The fixed wing slots are simply included on the list of available airframes for each classes selection day. The flight students pick their airframes based on a flight school OML, sometimes the fixed wing are selected toward the top and sometimes the last couple students on the list are forced into them. There are more fixed wing slots available these days since that don't do the transitions anymore.

Tbpxece said:
It is not at all uncommon for O-3's to switch to warrant in order to stay flying rather than moving into command.
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It's not uncommon for them to apply but it is far less common for them to make the switch, Army AV is in need of commissioned officers and are not really letting very many make the switch. This was more common a while ago.
 
My girl.attie said:
Also, if reapplying next year, would USAFA care that he did Army ROTC and would his commanding officer be able to nominate him for USAFA?
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If he wants to fly helos and will reapply next yr., why not go USMA? Or USCGA?
Chances of getting a pilot slot out of USAFA is very high, but chances of getting a helo out of UPT is very low. Maybe 1 helo will drop out of every class. When you think about it, the statistical chances are slim. A typical UPT class will weed out 25% in the 1st phase (T6). Than they will add in washbacks and get back to around that original class size start. During the T38/1 phase another 25% will be weeded out. My DS's class during the 38/1 phase started with 28 students, at winging there were 21 students. Only 1 helo dropped and that was common. So statistically it is a 5% chance, and if that is if they drop a helo.
Whereas, if you Army, be it USMA or AROTC your chances maybe lower of going rated, but getting a helo is much higher.

My husband flew with AF, but actually did 2 tours with the Army (joint positions). He jumped with 82nd for 2 yrs, and than went a few yrs later to CGSC at Leavenworth as an O4. CGSC is an in residence school for O4s in the Army. The Army lifestyle is much different than the AF lifestyle. That even starts as an O1. It includes their missions, deployments, etc.
~ AF is known as the corporate/bankers branch. Non-flying duty days and it is 8-4. PT? AF PT is a golf outing with the squadron carrying your clubs every few months, not getting up at O Dark thirty for a 3 mile run with a 70 lb rucksack on your back once a week.

AF helo pilots can fly the majority of their career, but if they want to make rank, just like fixed wing, they will need to step out of the helo and fly a desk.

The same can be true regarding flying helo's in the AF vs flying fixed wing. The lifestyle will be different.

Just putting this info out there for him to digest if helo's are his dream.
 
My girl.attie said:
He wants to be a pilot and would like to pursue that at his plan B university but unfortunately the school does not offer or is affiliated with another school’s AFROTC. If he went to the Army ROTC route, does he still have a chance to be a pilot or would he be better off going to his plan C school with AFROTC?
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To be successful in ROTC, you have to love not only the school, but the program too. It is a very delicate balance. Love the school, hate the program, than you will fail in succeeding in ROTC. Love the ROTC program, but hate the school, than your academic grades will probably suffer, and since grades are part of the OML system, you get dinged there too.

Have you reached out to the AROTC det at his plan B, and the AFROTC det at plan C? Does plan B university sing to him and would he be happy commissioning AROTC if he never gets appointed? Is going plan C just biding time to reapply for USAFA?

I have been here long enough to tell you that the majority of the TWE recipients swear that they will reapply next yr. HOWEVER, the majority of them will never reapply. This is because once in the ROTC program at the school, it becomes really hard to walk away. They come to realize that you can make general as a ROTC grad (Colin Powell). They now have a close knit group of friends, probably both in ROTC and in college. They start to think do I want to commission 1 yr later to experience an SA life. I am not flaming those that re-apply, just illustrating why some decide to stick with the ROTC route.

Whatever route your DS decides, he should at the 1st opportunity impo inform the det CoC. A strong det CoC will support the cadet for the ROTC nom. Their job is to create leaders. It is not ROTC vs SA. The sooner they know that this is their goal, the sooner they can make them a stronger candidate for the SA. IE max CFA. Give a job within the det to show leadership abilities. Make sure that their curriculum and gpa is on track to be competitive
~ College candidates will not be reviewed until their fall semester grades are submitted. Yes, they may get an LOA, but they still will want their fall grades before they appoint.

Hope this helps
 
Such good information in this thread. My son is finishing his sophomore year in AROTC and really wants to branch aviation but understands how hard it is. His approval for an air assault spot this summer just came through but I did not know about SIFT. Does he have to do this before he graduates to help with getting into aviation or is this done if he gets an aviation branch.

I am sorry to be so clueless - my son keeps me on a ‘need to know’ basis as he thinks the less I know the less I worry !!!
Thank you
 
Bluepit said:
I did not know about SIFT. Does he have to do this before he graduates to help with getting into aviation or is this done if he gets an aviation branch.
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Taking the SIFT is required before Advanced Camp, which is the summer after MS-III year. If he/she passes the SIFT with a 50 or better qualifying score, the medical exam can be done at Advanced Camp. If the score is between a 40 49, they might still qualify but would have to arrange for the medical exam on their own. (Ace the SIFT....you do NOT want to have to find an Army physician on your own to do this. It is difficult to arrange).

There are study guides for the SIFT available online. The HR rep at the Battalion can arrange for the SIFT to be scheduled.
 
Thank you all for all your wisdom and sharing your experience, the information is invaluable. I am glad to hear that if he chooses AROTC that he does have a chance to fly. As a 17 year old, I know that he may well have a change of heart about being a pilot in the military or may not qualify or may stay on that path but just wanted to help him to make an informed decision when choosing a school. We will provide as much guidance as we can to help him choose a school he loves as a priority. He did apply to USCGA as well but was not selected. I’m going to let this weekend pass to decompress and get going again. We hope to talk to his ALO and evaluator to try to get feedback on his application or guidance. Do ALOs get to see the candidates information? Thank you again.
 
Army aviation slots are very competitive for USMA..... can’t speak for AROTC but they are probably similar. Our son at USMA is in the top 20% of his class and is borderline for branching aviation. We also have a USAFA grad who was mid-pack but easily got aviation....one team but different missions/focus.
 
For this Advanced Camp cycle, the score to get a flight physical at Advanced Camp changed. It used to be a 49 or 50 on the SIFT, but for this summer, it is just a passing score (I think it's a 40).

However, this is the Army we're talking about so it may change for the next Advanced Camp cycle. The SIFT is taken maybe Jan-Mar of the MSIII year I think. Whatever date it is, it's taken before Advanced Camp because the score is used to determine if you get a flight physical at Advanced Camp.

@AROTC-dad is spot on. If you do not get a high enough score (this summer, it's just getting a passing score) on the SIFT and therefore not eligible to get a flight physical at Advanced Camp, then you are on your own to find a flight surgeon who will do the flight physical for you. It is difficult to arrange. Some AROTC units have a go-to flight surgeon (school is near a large Army post), but most don't. Even if you were able to arrange on your own for a flight physical, it would be at your own expense. The labs, EKG, hearing ,etc... can be done at the flight surgeon's clinic. But the travel and overnight lodging, if used, are at your cost. Remember, if you don't get done at camp, then you have to do a flight physical in August and early September which means you may have to miss classes to travel to the Army clinic. It's just tough all around to have to arrange for your own flight physical. My point is the same as that of @AROTC-dad... just do well enough on the SIFT so you are eligible to get a flight physical at Advanced Camp.

Year after year, I am told AROTC graduates in the top 10% of the OML get their first choice of branch. It's something (top 10% of the OML) to shoot for if your DS really wants aviation.
 
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