Yes as stated above OP I believe you know your path. I have seen others enter USAFA not really sure they want to be here and leave. USAFA is extremely tough your first year. AFROTC will lead you to your goals as stated in your OP. Good luck! I recommend if you go to USAFA you keep your plan B open. That advice is for everyone. Pay your plan B deposits. Anything can happen in BCT.
AFA vs. ROTC
- Thread starter jigmin
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@jigmin. You hit all valid points. Your parents are right and so are you. But here’s the clear difference in experience you’ll get.
USAFA: you’ll get the military college experience and definitely not a civilian full time military part time experience. Academy is a full time active duty student life. Nevertheless, Part Time or Full Time military experience at UCLA or Berkeley depends on you. Berkeley and UCLA are not SMCs. CIV college will definitely give you more free time not less. USAFA Cadets will have <50% of their free time to focus on academics and 50% on intramural athletics and military responsibilities around the Academy. So you’ll have less study time at USAFA. Academic rigor is also more challenging at AFA because you’ll have the Academy core STEM to complete even if you decide to major in Pol Sci. You’ll take the same STEM as Aeronautics Majors.
IMHO, the prestige of AFA ranks higher and commands more respect than UCLA and Berkeley. Civ employers also place higher value on USAFA than CIV school. You’ll also get some points bumped for grad schools as an AFA grad. Of course that’s my opinion as someone who grew up placing higher value on East Coast Ivy Schools and AFA, USNA, and USMA. I would rather hire a USAFA grad with Harvard Business School MBA than hire Berkeley grad with HBS MBA. I just have more respect for those who graduate from USAFA or USNA or USMA. That’s just personal but that’s how many people see it too, especially among top Wall Street firms and many in corporate America. Personally for me, unless your option is between MIT and Air Force, I’ll choose the AFA. Again, this is me. And this is how I advised my DS throughout his Youth. And he’s loving it at USNA. And already making future plans for his Masters and Doctorate at his top CIV school programs. Of course this will only happen after 5+ years in the service.
UCLA/Berkeley while top schools in the country, definitely one of the most liberal schools in the country. If you are a liberal these are the colleges of choice. AFA is definitely more conservative or you’ll have to act like one. Nevertheless, you’ll be conditioned to tolerate and respect others not like you. Prestige, I would say about equal in the civilian world. In the Air Force, definitely AFA. If you plan to get a Masters, and you should, you can always go to UCLA and Berkeley for Masters or Doctorate. You can only go to AFA now or never.
You also have the choice of going to AFA for 2 years and decide to switch to CIV school. And still finish out with ROTC if that’s the path you desire. You can’t do it the other way around unless you want to lose a year or take a chance of not getting an Appointment second time.
If you are bad in time management ROTC is a better route. If you are good in time management you’ll excel at the AFA.
If I were you I’ll choose USAFA over UCLA/Berkeley and try it out for 2 years. Then decide to contract or transfer to Civ school and do ROTC or don’t do military.
Again, the biggest difference between USAFA and UCLA/Berkeley is the military experience while in college, structure vs less structure. More free time in ROTC vs less time in AFA. For Commissioning, I believe AFA grads only compete with AFA grads while AFROTC grads compete nationally with other AFROTC grads. I think you are ranked separately. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. In my personal experience, I always found kids who chose ROTC over Academy regretting. Even those who went to Yale, MIT, and Harvard. I know quite a few who reapplied from these schools to go to the Academy. There’s something about being an Academy grad and the Academy experience you just cannot get at CIV Program. You’ll get more respect from people in general because people know how selective they are and because Academy programs are highly rigorous and prestigious. However, after Commissioning you are all the same butter bars. You’ll have to perform to get ahead and succeed.
I am biased to USAFA!
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I have posted this several times answering this question. I make slight modifications every time, however the core message remains the same. Before you read this, I want to make one important point. If after your Air Force career, the biggest thing on your resume was what school you went to instead of what you accomplished in the Air Force, you have bigger problems. When future employers look at my resume, they will see "F-16 Pilot" and the associated bullet points first. The regular school I attended is simply a footnote.
"I figured I would quickly jump in and give my $.02 since I wish I had more information 6 years ago when I was going through the application process to both USAFA and AFROTC.
A bit about me: I commissioned in 2015 from AFROTC. I applied to USAFA for the class of 2015 and 2016. I got TWE both times. I graduated from the F-16 B Course and I am now flying the mighty Viper overseas. Looking back, not getting into the Academy is the best thing that ever happened to me (YMMV).
I can't comment on Academy Pro/Con, but for those individuals on the fence, maybe my AFROTC experience can shed some more light on the issue.
AFROTC Pro's:
1. You get to the same place
-This is something I think so many applicants do not understand. Once you get your commission and get to your first Active Duty base, no one cares if you were USAFA/AFROTC/OTS. They care if you can do your job and if you are a good dude. Once those butter bars are pinned on, everyone is equal. You are not deemed inferior because of your commissioning source. The goal is the commission, not the road to get there. (I can't stress this enough. I have yet to meet one person who cares an iota on the commissioning source. If they do, they are wrong.) Additionally, if your goal is to be a pilot, I never saw an individual in AFROTC who put in the work required not get one. YMMV.
2. Self-Motivation
- This was one of the biggest strengths of AFROTC in my opinion. No one is yelling at you to wake up at 0400 for LLAB, no one is forcing you to go to the gym, no one is forcing you to go to class, no one is forcing you to study. You have to motivate yourself to put in the work when no one is holding you accountable. I had to make my own schedule and stick to it, and I believe this forces you to grow as a person in a way unique to AFROTC. Personally, I credit this factor with my performance in UPT. After a 12 hour day, no one is forcing you to hit the gym for an hour and study the rest of the night. For me, it helped having 4 years of self-motivation under my belt to press through the long year.
3. Experiences
- USAFA gives you unique opportunities, I am not discounting that. However no one talks about the experiences you get going to a normal college. I am not talking about partying and bar hopping (which aren't bad experiences, everything in moderation and legally). During a normal week I got to travel the coast, getting in early morning surf sessions before class and a sunset session afterwards. We would go jet skiing in the local bay on random afternoons. During the weekends you could do anything from go snowboarding up in the mountains, fly ultralights off the coastal cliffs, go windsurfing when the waves sucked, do road trips and travel the state without any real restrictions, literally anything you can think of. The freedom a traditional college entails gives you time to fill with once in a lifetime experiences. My life is owned by the Air Force for the next 10 years, I would not trade those 4 years of freedom for anything.
AFROTC Con's:
1. You aren't locked in to commissioning until after Sophomore year
-This is probably the biggest con. The big cut off is selection for summer field training which happens between Sophomore/Junior year. After you get selected, you are going to commission unless you shoot yourself in the foot with grades/legal problems/PT fails. Even cadets who put in the minimum effort required get a slot. However until that selection, there is still uncertainty.
2. Lack of funding for extra programs
-While this is making a comeback, AFROTC cadets don't get the extra programs that USAFA cadets have. Freefall, powered flight, gliders, ect. are opportunities unique to USAFA.
3. Distractions
-This is the biggest downfall of cadets in AFROTC. While the lack of structure is beneficial for many cadets, it can really hurt those individuals who prefer a structured learning environment. Grades are the first thing to suffer when a cadet gets distracted by all the other time consuming activities a college has. My detachment started out with around 120 cadets for the class of 2015. We commissioned 25. Most individuals dropped out on their own after deciding it wasn't for them. For those who were forced out though, grades was the most common reason.
For the record, nothing I am saying here should be misconstrued as a jab at USAFA. Some of my best friends went there. I simply am trying to illustrate how AFROTC is not just a "backup option", but a completely equal commissioning source with unique inherent strengths. At the end of the day, the best commissioning source depends on the individual."
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This x 10! Brilliantly said, @a400831. So many candidates — and their parents — don’t get this. Thank you.
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That also stuck out to me. I have recently met 2 SA grads that I actually could not believe were SA grads. Not the successful go-getter that I see in my minds eye when I think of a SA grad. It’s up to YOU. Not the title.
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Another thing I thought about that is pretty significant in the different avenues, is that at an SA, everyone there (professors, counselors, chaplains, classmates) are there to see you SUCCEED and get through the next 4 years graduating. “C’s get degrees” is an actual saying there!!
VS your educational experience at a college (not the ROTC element). At DS’s choice of rotc school, the first year is a weed-out year. In huge classes. With kids competing against you.
That’s a big difference. One of complete support vs one of competition (academically). Also the class size, professor ratios, professor availability (unmatched at a SA), all classes at a SA are smaller and taught by professors. Very different than at a ‘regular’ college.
In the sense that everyone there at a SA is there to support you to succeed and graduate, this is a different emphasis than a regular college. In this sense, a SA vs ROTC route is ‘easier’. Perhaps not in the actual academics/duties performed, but in the ability to be supported to succeed in them. EVERYONE is on the same page at the whole institution. I have one at USNA, and one at a regular college and we had this discussion recently. It’s a reality!! My regular college DS is competing AGAINST his classmates for that job. My USNA DS is competing right along side, and WITH his classmates. It’s a whole different vibe. Also a vibe that’s hard to convey in a forum post [emoji849][emoji51]. BTW, both of my sons are very different and are each in the place that is perfect for them!
When must you make your decision??
VS your educational experience at a college (not the ROTC element). At DS’s choice of rotc school, the first year is a weed-out year. In huge classes. With kids competing against you.
That’s a big difference. One of complete support vs one of competition (academically). Also the class size, professor ratios, professor availability (unmatched at a SA), all classes at a SA are smaller and taught by professors. Very different than at a ‘regular’ college.
In the sense that everyone there at a SA is there to support you to succeed and graduate, this is a different emphasis than a regular college. In this sense, a SA vs ROTC route is ‘easier’. Perhaps not in the actual academics/duties performed, but in the ability to be supported to succeed in them. EVERYONE is on the same page at the whole institution. I have one at USNA, and one at a regular college and we had this discussion recently. It’s a reality!! My regular college DS is competing AGAINST his classmates for that job. My USNA DS is competing right along side, and WITH his classmates. It’s a whole different vibe. Also a vibe that’s hard to convey in a forum post [emoji849][emoji51]. BTW, both of my sons are very different and are each in the place that is perfect for them!
When must you make your decision??
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Also keep in mind, you may not get your choice of service upon completion of either USAFA or ROTC. You may not get into into intelligence (or xxx). You may not get into law school (I have no idea how that works...).
Are you OK with that? Something to consider. I just don’t hear the WHY you applied (is it Bc of your parents that you even applied?) to USAFA. It’s important, BC lends to the fact that if your WHY is not your drove, but someone else’s, you should NOT attend a SA. Maybe you are indeed committed to serving already so that’s a given, and not the reason for you Rpost. But I just have this ‘feeling’ about me.
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+1 to @justdoit19. It was mentioned earlier in this thread that time management is more important at an SA than in ROTC. I dispute that. At an SA, especially during plebe year, everything is highly regimented. Yes, there are many responsibilities and obligations. But also many parameters and boundaries. As one advances in class, there’s a bit more freedom. But significant portions of “forced fun” remain.
In ROTC, students are largely left to their own devices. Besides class and ROTC, there’s plenty of downtime and football games and fraternity/sorority parities and town distractions. One can sleep in and turn lights out when they please. Weekends are theirs and they can leave campus when their heart desires. As has been said on SAF many times, ROTC requires enormous commitment because there is no built-in time management. The onus is on the cadet/mid in a way that it’s not at SAs.
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YES!! In our same discussion. And all three of us agree. IMO, it’s easier at a SA in this sense. Less self discipline in a sense. And less peer pressure to not take care of things. At a SA, you are all in the same club. At college, you are not (outside of ROTC stuff).
Not saying one is better. They are different. When I hear a SA IS ‘harder’, I have to say that ‘it depends...’
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@a400831. This is brilliant! Well said. And well done with your accomplishments. As mentioned on your post, I believe there is a better fit to each type of candidates depending on their prep and attitude toward college experience. Of course people change once they get there and this change is determined by your prep and attitude as a Cadet. From the outside who are onlookers to the process, where you commission from is more perception which cannot be discounted. But as you so eloquently articulated, you’re all same butter bars when you commission and have to prove yourself on the job. Perform or perish or perform and promote. That’s how it is also in the Civ world. Military experience is well valued in Civ professions even if what you did in the military is not directly relevant. How you led and managed people and having been tested under stressful circumstances are very valuable. Civ world can be more brutal and cold hearted how people are evaluated and treated. Higher paid jobs carry higher risk to keep the job. Long term, I believe better job security in the military and the government.
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Jigmin, Put the reasons “Why” down on paper.
out of the roughly 10,000 that started the process to apply, the Academy saw something in you and believed in you to the point you earned an offer of appointment.
This decision is yours and yours alone. Our DS had similar options & we sat down, talked through it and wrapped up telling him We believe in Him & and are proud; however, the decision was His, does not matter what we think or want. After I-day he will be the one living with the decision not us.
Best of luck with your decision, when in doubt I would recommend praying about it & continue to seek council from people you trust.