Acceptance Rate?

H

Humey

5-Year Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,198
I am a CPA so numbers interest me. I have a generic question regarding acceptance rates to the Military academies. Just like all civilian colleges, military colleges have an acceptance rate. I think i read that West Point has a 9% rate. I assume they calculate it based on the number of acceptances divided by number of applicants. Simple enough. However, then the question is, what is an applicant. Is it someone who completed finished their application including nominations or is it someone who went to the USMA website and started an application.

In many cases, these rates are BS as many civilian college heavily promote themselves increasing the number of applicants but not increasing the number acceptances. By promoting yourself, your applicants go up and your acceptance rate goes down. So the question is the military acceptance rate actually lower than stated. I would assume that the number of applicants to West Point, USNA and USAFA increase every year, however, I would also assume that there are tons of High School students who have a 3.2 GPA or higher and apply to an Ivy School and yet wouldnt apply to an academy. When I say they dont apply to the academy, i mean high school kids who would be interested in doing so but think they dont have the grades, wont get a nomination or even have support system in their school that would provide the information needed to apply. These kids in others words disqualify themselves. So if these kids were to actually apply, the number of applicants would increase thus decreasing the acceptance rate.

Makes no difference in the end but it is a thought. However if you want to make it more philosophical, there are probably many high school students who would make great cadets but for whatever reason, never connect with the idea of going to an academy
 
Simply put, the denominator is "applications started" (that may not be the technical term, but if someone starts the process by opening an account, it counts).

Humey said:
there are probably many high school students who would make great cadets but for whatever reason, never connect with the idea of going to an academy
Click to expand...

Very true. There are also many who would "make great cadets" but don't want to jump through the numerous hoops (the process is daunting) or don't want to serve five years after graduation (cadets must eventually become officers) or want to live a different lifestyle (ROTC may be a better fit).
 
MidCakePa said:
Simply put, the denominator is "applications started" (that may not be the technical term, but if someone starts the process by opening an account, it counts).

Humey said:
there are probably many high school students who would make great cadets but for whatever reason, never connect with the idea of going to an academy
Click to expand...

Very true. There are also many who would "make great cadets" but don't want to jump through the numerous hoops (the process is daunting) or don't want to serve five years after graduation (cadets must eventually become officers) or want to live a different lifestyle (ROTC may be a better fit).
Click to expand...
Which probably means there a lot less applications than there could be. My son was interested in atttending USAFA. When i went to my state's senators website, it pretty much said she wouldnt even think about nominating you unlesss you were a straight A student. That wasnt my son so we never bothered going any further.

As for the denominator being open applications but not finished applications, then the acceptance rate must be higher if you only take into consideration those who actually finished their application.

I enjoy these types of statistics but these number can be played with based on which information you use to do the calculations. I always enjoyed the saying "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
 
I have read that WP counts an opened application. Doesn't need to be completed in order to be counted. If this is correct, then it would account for the very low acceptance rate. If they only counted completed applications, the number would be much higher.

Hopefully, others can give more insight.
 
Humey said:
MidCakePa said:
Simply put, the denominator is "applications started" (that may not be the technical term, but if someone starts the process by opening an account, it counts).

Humey said:
there are probably many high school students who would make great cadets but for whatever reason, never connect with the idea of going to an academy
Click to expand...

Very true. There are also many who would "make great cadets" but don't want to jump through the numerous hoops (the process is daunting) or don't want to serve five years after graduation (cadets must eventually become officers) or want to live a different lifestyle (ROTC may be a better fit).
Click to expand...
Which probably means there a lot less applications than there could be. My son was interested in atttending USAFA. When i went to my state's senators website, it pretty much said she wouldnt even think about nominating you unlesss you were a straight A student. That wasnt my son so we never bothered going any further.

As for the denominator being open applications but not finished applications, then the acceptance rate must be higher if you only take into consideration those who actually finished their application.

I enjoy these types of statistics but these number can be played with based on which information you use to do the calculations. I always enjoyed the saying "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Click to expand...

Ask your senator of she was a straight A student.

Understanding that the SA's offer a challenging academic curriculum, I would bet hard money that some of the best leaders (military and other) in our society were not straight A students.
 
Who knows? But, I can assure you many fully qualified candidates do not get in. The process alone requires discipline and perseverance.

The majority of those at our academies would do well at any other school in the nation. However, the majority of the students attending those other schools would not do well at the academies.
 
The question becomes, "What constitutes a file started?"

The class profile on the USMA website indicates 12,294 applicant files started for a recent class year, but does not specify which class year. Using that number leads to an acceptance rate in the 9% - 10% range.

However, that number is not the number of candidates that simply submitted information. Assuming data from the Class of 2018 is representative of the profile on the website:
  • Total in database with a candidate ID: 16,124
  • Number of candidates that submitted test scores (SAT or ACT): 12,630
Almost 4,000 people started the process by submitting information, but dropped out before submitting test scores and were not counted as applicants. Somewhere in the process, admissions determines what constitutes a candidate.
 
bookreader said:
I have read that WP counts an opened application. Doesn't need to be completed in order to be counted. If this is correct, then it would account for the very low acceptance rate. If they only counted completed applications, the number would be much higher.

Hopefully, others can give more insight.
Click to expand...

Most civilian colleges operate in a similar manner
 
Humey said:
I would bet hard money that some of the best leaders (military and other) in our society were not straight A students.
Click to expand...

True - Wasn't Senator John McCain at, or near, the bottom of his class? And, most likely he would not have even gotten into the USNA if his father and grandfather were not Admirals. But the all institutes of higher learning have to have ways to distinguish between the numerous applicants for limited slots. And they do look for evidence of leadership in applications.
 
GaitherDad said:
Humey said:
I would bet hard money that some of the best leaders (military and other) in our society were not straight A students.
Click to expand...

True - Wasn't Senator John McCain at, or near, the bottom of his class? And, most likely he would not have even gotten into the USNA if his father and grandfather were not Admirals. But the all institutes of higher learning have to have ways to distinguish between the numerous applicants for limited slots. And they do look for evidence of leadership in applications.
Click to expand...
The last true democratic army the US had was during WWII. Democratic in that just about everyone served from all groups and all ages. It would seem that many a of the most famous leaders (non generals) and individual acts of heroism came from men who never went to the academy. Assuming the show Band of Brothers is truthful, Major Winter attack on a German artillery is still studied at West Point and he never attended an academy. I would assume most of these men would never have been admitted to West Point. Having said that, i dont know how else you would evaluate a person without taking GPA, test scores and the rest into consideration. On the other hand, being a 4.0 student doesnt mean you would be able to lead a group of men and women in combat. On ther other hand, maybe you want the guy or gal with a 4.0 leading the men and women in the finance office. Maybe if their werent so many hoops into getting into the academies, more people would at least try to apply. I definitely dont have the answer
 
Acceptance rate is a meaningless for SA’s, minus CG, with the nomination, physical, and medical requirements It’s not top 1400 students that are offered appointments, rather from #1 to last fully qualified candidate (around 2500). I don’t think Harvard cares if an applicant can run 7 min mile or don’t have asthma. With the nomination requirement, a candidate is mostly competing against other candidates in his or her nomination category, not against everyone that applied.
 
If you look at the numbers posted on all of the academy profile pages, you can understand the appointment rates a bit better. The number of applicants is irrelevant as the academies only consider those who are 3Q with nominations (expect Coast Gaurd, of course). The appointment rate for that pool is close to 50%. What I think is disingenuous is not reporting that metric as the true rate.
 
VelveteenR said:
If you look at the numbers posted on all of the academy profile pages, you can understand the appointment rates a bit better. The number of applicants is irrelevant as the academies only consider those who are 3Q with nominations (expect Coast Gaurd, of course). The appointment rate for that pool is close to 50%. What I think is disingenuous is not reporting that metric as the true rate.
Click to expand...
Sure but you could then give a rate for those who get 3Q with nomination. It sort of like saying of the three ways to commission ( AFRotc, USAFA or OCS) the academy gives you the best chance to get a pilot spot. The statement is true however, it is also the hardest way to commission and apply for the pilot spot. My point being that 50% isnt a real rate either. You got to go through lots of hoops before you reach that point
 
Humey said:
Sure but you could then give a rate for those who get 3Q with nomination.
Click to expand...

That’s the pool my post is referring to — those who’ve already cleared the hoops. For those who have cleared those hurdles (3Q + nom), the appointment rate is about 50%. Those are the only real candidates in the running.

For example, it’s pretty easy to do this math from these recent USMA class profile stats:

https://westpoint.edu/admissions/class-profile
 
The data reported on the USMA website is a fair representation of the acceptance rate and consistent with the way other colleges report acceptance rates.

Civilian college admissions offices filter applications to identify a pool of qualified candidates according to their admissions criteria, just as USMA does according to its criteria.

Those qualified applicants to the civilian college are the only candidates competing for admission, yet the college still counts the unqualified candidates as applicants in their acceptance rate calculation. If they excluded unqualified applicants, the acceptance rate would be much higher.

It would be inconsistent with accepted standards for USMA to use the number of qualified candidates in reporting the acceptance rate.
 
One could argue that civilian colleges -- particularly the so-called elites -- benefit disproportionately from the Common App, which makes it exceedingly easy for anyone to "apply" no matter how (un)qualified. In fact, one could argue that being seemingly unqualified isn't really a deterrent anymore because these schools long-ago established that straight academic credentials are not the sole or even main determinant of admission. So having a good story -- a qualitative value, to be sure -- aided by the ease of the Common App -- abets these colleges in pumping up their denominator, and hence in pushing down their acceptance rate.

Is it right or wrong? That's for another day and another thread.
 
MemberLG said:
Acceptance rate is a meaningless for SA’s, minus CG, with the nomination, physical, and medical requirements It’s not top 1400 students that are offered appointments, rather from #1 to last fully qualified candidate (around 2500). I don’t think Harvard cares if an applicant can run 7 min mile or don’t have asthma. With the nomination requirement, a candidate is mostly competing against other candidates in his or her nomination category, not against everyone that applied.
Click to expand...

I disagree. You are competing against everyone that applies. The pool just gets smaller along the way (i.e., 3Q, Nomination, slate, etc.). All schools have filters to weed out candidates. SAs just have more.

Service Academies want well-rounded individuals not book worms. As stated earlier, a large number of SA kids were accepted into Ivies. Not many kids accepted into Ivies could gain acceptance into a SA
 
Prior to World War II the only way to rise as an officer in peace time in the military would be via a service Academy. That is just not true anymore. E.g. Colin Powell: City College of City University University of New York
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top