USNA vs U of Michigan NROTC- Marine Option

USNA vs U of Michigan NROTC- Marine Option


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So, there is certainly no shortage of history classes at University of Michigan that focus on gender, religion, sexuality, etc, but if you look closely at the courses offered and look at course descriptions, there are many courses that do address more traditional historical knowledge, as well as courses designed to develop critical thinking skills and spark debate. Here is a sampling that I found interesting:
HISTORY 101 - What is History?
You might think you know what history is: it’s what happened in the past — the names, dates, and events that fill textbooks. But think again. History is not about memorizing facts. It’s about asking questions about the past, finding clues, and using our imaginations to piece those clues together into stories — stories that shape our present and future. • Does this mean history is fiction? • Who gets to do history — whose stories should we accept as true? • How is history different in different parts of the world? • How do political struggles, in the U.S. and around the globe, shape the way people see the past and use it in their everyday lives? • Can history predict or improve the future, and if not, what is history for? • Must histories only be written in books? Or are there other sites that "produce" history? Put another way, where can we "find" history? This course will introduce you to various approaches to history, drawing examples from across the globe and throughout the centuries. But above all, it will teach you new ways of thinking critically and internationally about the world you live in — its past, present, and future. And it will help you prepare for any future courses or endeavors that require you to assess different kinds of evidence, to grapple with conflicting interpretations about a topic, to engage in critical inquiry and analysis, to craft an argument, and to develop empathy through historical or cultural understanding. Book Cost: Course pack and one paperback book (used copies of the book are generally available).

HISTORY 200 - Ancient Greece to 323 B.C.E.
In History 200, we investigate ancient Greek history from the Bronze Age until the death of Alexander the Great (ca. 1500 to 323 BCE). This is a course where we follow the lead of the ancient Greek historian Herodotus, and inquire into the past (historia in Greek originally meant inquiry!) We use ancient evidence to look into a range of issues that emerge in the course of ancient Greek history: the nature of interactions between Greeks and other ancient civilizations of the Near East and North Africa; political developments in Greek city-states (especially Athens and Sparta); the tensions between local identities and a common Greek identity; gender and sexuality, freedom and slavery in Greek politics and society. We do all this while holding up modern interpretations of the ancient Greek past and its legacy to critical re-examination, with the aim of better equipping ourselves to evaluate modern claims about ancient civilizations and what the ancient Greeks might mean for us now.

HISTORY 202 - Doing History
The course provides a structured and cohesive foundation in the analytical, methodological, compositional, and historiographical skills involved in “doing history.” Students will encounter a diverse set of primary sources in order to evaluate how historians identify and interpret the clues, evidence, and omissions in the historical record. Students also will read secondary historical texts on selected subjects, with a focus on historiographical debates over competing interpretations of the past and consideration of the various approaches of political, social, cultural, and other subfields of history. In addition to the critical analysis of primary and secondary sources, HISTORY 202 focuses on the practice of historical writing and the development of research skills, preparing students for the requirements of more advanced history courses, especially the capstone Junior/Senior Colloquium.

HISTORY 202 also introduces concentrators to ways of “doing history” outside the classroom, from archival research to public history. As a group, the seminar will visit one or more of the research libraries affiliated with the University of Michigan for hands-on experience with primary sources and manuscript collections. Individual sections of HISTORY 202 might take field trips to museums and other public history sites in Southeast Michigan, in order to explore the presentation of history and the operation of historical memory in action. The course also will explore the ways in which the Internet and new media technologies have changed the methods of “doing history,” including the increasing availability of digital archives and visual sources.

HISTORY 240 - The World Since 1492
What is globalization and when did it begin? How did different parts of the world become deeply connected? Why are some places rich and others poor? We will address these questions, and more, in this introductory survey of the modern world from c. 1450 to the present. This course is an introductory survey of the modern world from c. 1450 to the present. The course will focus on the development of what has been called the ‘modern world system.’ The modern world-system developed with the advent of capitalism and brought in its wake significant changes for different regions of the world. The manner in which different regions were integrated into this new world-system had far-reaching consequences for their internal development and for their relations with the rest of the world. Our aim will be to examine the process by which the modern world-system integrated different regions during the historical stages of its development. We will examine the development of the modern world-system through the following stages: -the first stage of merchant capitalism, c. 1450 -c1750 -the second stage of industrial capitalism, c. 1750 -c. 1870 -the third stage of monopoly capitalism, c 1870 -c.1914 -the fourth stage of defensive monopoly capitalism, 1914 -1945 -the fifth stage of reformed capitalism, 1945 -c. 1989 -the sixth stage of global capitalism, c. 1989 –2008 -the seventh stage of late or crisis capitalism, c 2008-to the present With each stage, we will identify the defining characteristics of capitalism at that stage, and explore its implications for the internal and external development of different regions of the world.

HISTORY 241 - America and Middle Eastern Wars
This exciting course treats the impact and experience of warfare on the Middle East in the last third of the 20th Century and into the 21st. We will examine how the Cold War, Afghanistan, the Gulf War, the Iraq War and the War on Terror have shaped the modern MiddleEast. We will consider political and social history as well as the military aspect. We will also look at the causes for Washington policy-making toward the region. Grading is based upon class participation and attendance (mandatory) and on examinations.

HISTORY 260 - United States to 1865
This course introduces the student to American history from the founding of European settlements in North America to the fighting of the Civil War. Lectures and discussions emphasize the migration of people from Europe and Africa, the variety of settlements, racial interaction, the formation and development of new political, economic, social and religious institutions, and their role in the transformation of everyday life. Certain events, like the American Revolution and the Civil War, are examined in detail. This course also familiarizes the student with the interpretation of a wide range of evidence available for historical analysis – diaries, letters, accounts, newspapers, autobiographies, biographies, essays, monographs, fictional narratives, paintings, and films. Course lectures sketch the big picture, while discussion sections explore issues addressed by the lectures and raised in the readings.

HISTORY 318 - Europe in the Era of Total War, 1870-1945
In 1945, Europe was in ruins. Two global conflicts between 1914-1918 and 1939-1945 had leveled entire cities with the destructive powers of industrialized warfare. These conflicts produced genocidal regimes that pursued mass murder at a previously unimaginable scale. What made such violence possible, and how did ordinary men and women experience it? History 318 will seek answers to these questions by beginning with an account of Europe at the end of the nineteenth century. We will explore the social dislocation that accompanied Europe’s transformation from a predominantly rural and agrarian society into a modern industrial economy and consumer society. You will read about the ideologies and cultural forces that helped people understand—and misunderstand—these often bewildering developments: liberalism, socialism, and nationalism. We will follow the events that took Europe from the devastation of World War I to the postwar revolutions that reshaped political and economic life in Russia. The final weeks of the class will explore the rise of fascism and Nazism in Europe, and the prolonged nightmare of the Second World War.

The list continues. None of this answers the OP's original question of where she should attend. Only she can answer that, after careful consideration. I just didn't want U of M to be painted as a place where there are only "fluff" history courses. DS is a STEM major, but I wouldn't mind seeing him take some of these courses to broaden his scope and develop critical thinking and debate skills.
 
I would also want to major in History or economics with a minor in spanish.

The OP said history OR economics and did not specify what type of history she is interested in. For all we know, Michigan's offerings may be perfect for her. We don't know, so I'm not sure why anyone would offer an opinion on any university's catalog without knowing exactly what the student is looking to concentrate in but, as @ProudDad17 pointed out above, there certainly are courses in the "causes, conduct and consequences of wars in western history," so if that happens to be the OP's interest, she'll have no problem satisfying her requirements at U-M. In any case, both Michigan's history and economics programs are among the top-ranked in the country, so she'd hardly go wrong with either.

And, IMO, there is no better college campus/experience on the planet than Ann Arbor. ;)

However, even with my bias, I would tell the OP to choose her dream school as concerns about transitioning from home should not be the driver. Eventually, that's going to happen no matter where she goes, so she should not pass up her top choice just to smooth or delay the inevitable. Both routes will enable her to become a Marine officer, but she hasn't even started down this path yet, so she doesn't really know if her goals will change along the way. (Our son was hell-bent on Marines in high school, ended up at Army hell-bent on Infantry, branched Cyber.) I think her choice should be made based on the type of college experience she wants to have and no one can decide that but her.
 
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I forgot the OP said History OR Economics. In that case, this course might be of interest:

HISTORY 282 - A History of the Economy
When historians study the economy they are interested in far more than the development of institutions like banks or stock markets, far more than the changes over time in indices of productivity or wealth. Instead, we want to understand how the very concept of a “stock” came to be, or how different people have understood the meaning of “productivity” in different times and places. The foundational premise of any good historical study of the economy is that this topic cannot be reduced to universalistic formulas, valid always and everywhere. This course will teach you how the economies that we know today were created, exploring the complicated stories behind the values, social norms, power relations, and unstated assumptions that constitute economic life. We will shift back and forth from the macro level (examining long-term patterns and trends and grand economic theories) and the micro level (studying our every-day practices regarding things like money, jobs, or consumption).

The readings for this class will consist mostly of primary sources, including the writings of famous economists, political manifestos dealing with economic policies, and first-hand accounts from workers, business-owners, merchants, bankers, union activists, and more.
 
Again, there's nothing wrong with studying the history of religion or the history of witches or sexuality or Southeast Asia or anything human. That's the scope of historical study, after all.

The point is the extreme dearth of core historical courses on the history of states, statesmen, and the causes of war and the preservation of the peace.

If there were more than 3 or 4 such courses - out if 87 total - this wouldn't be an issue.

But the ridiculous imbalance - 10x ! - suggests a deliberate disdain among this group of scholars for the core subject of historical study, the political-military-diplomatic dimension. (That's also weird: it's as if a university Economics department refused to teach more than a couple of courses on how markets work, because, well, that would be giving aid and comfort to conservatives.)

As I say, if a student is fine with a vegan & tofu intellectual diet for four years, then no problem. Different strokes etc.

Thibaud, I think we're in agreement that knowledge of history is good, but perhaps we're talking past each other in other respects. You've mentioned "causes of war" a couple of times, and I'm saying that studying religion is very relevant to this topic, as religious conflict has been the cause of a huge majority of (or most?) wars and violent conflicts, in "western" history and "non-western" history alike.
If you're looking at the study of states and state structures, then the Poli Sci department or International Relations department will have plenty of courses in those topics. "Statesmen"? I'm pretty sure that's the purview of biographers, not historians. The required Naval Sciences courses teach NROTC students about naval history.

I'm afraid there is no persuasive case here that Michigan is doing an inadequate job of teaching history.
 
I'm the last person to diss U-M. All I was pointing out is that the History and Poli Sci that was taught when most of us attended school - back in the days before identity politics developed a tight grip on most social science departments across the US - has been thrown aside in favor of a very different set of priorities.

These priorities may not align with the kind of training and investigation that, say, Gen. Mattis or other history-minded military leaders favor, which is the sort that Thucydides, Machiavelli, Waltz, Morgenthau et al. have always favored.

Don't listen to me; here's Johns Hopkins/SAIS Historian Hal Brands on the demise of diplomatic and military history, and its effects on the study of history and the history profession generally:

"American college students are abandoning the study of history. Since 2008, the number of students majoring in history in U.S. universities has dropped 30 percent, and history now accounts for a smaller share of all U.S. bachelor’s degrees than at any time since 1950. ... This decline in majors has been even steeper at elite, private universities — the very institutions that act as standard bearers and gate-keepers for the discipline. The study of history is itself becoming a relic of the past.

"The discipline mostly has itself to blame for its current woes.

"In recent decades, the academic historical profession has become steadily less accessible to students and the general public — and steadily less relevant to addressing critical matters of politics, diplomacy, and war and peace. It is not surprising that students are fleeing history, for the historical discipline has long been fleeing its twin responsibilities to interact with the outside world and engage some of the most fundamental issues confronting the United States. ..."
 
I think a lot of students are "fleeing" a lot of majors, not just history, in pursuit of jobs and money. Colleges are increasingly being seen as trade schools instead of places of intellectual pursuit intended for enriching the life of the mind. History is not the only discipline to fall to this change, but we are getting WAY off topic here.

@oliviafoster36: Any response?
 
but we are getting WAY off topic here.
Thank you. I've been guilty too, but it is time to get back on topic here. I think we've beaten the history department to death, and enough is enough.
 
I know that you've likely already made this decision, but I went through a very similar situation three years ago (though I'm Navy) and I'm going into my senior year at Michigan and I don't regret a thing. The Naval Academy is a great school and if you think that's where you'll grow the most as a person, that's fantastic, but I thought that I personally would benefit more from learning to think critically outside of the Navy environment and then taking that perspective in with me. If you have any questions about why I made the decision I did, I would love to answer them. If you picked USNA, congrats and have so much fun! If you picked Michigan, I'll see you in the fall :)
 
Just to add a few more thoughts - my son-in-law was a Human Development and Family Studies major at Penn State (BS degree) and an NCO in the Marine Corps Reserves when 9/11 happened. He signed up for OCS and was commissioned in the same year. He is now a LTC and CO of a combat logistics BN. My neighbor just retired from the Marine Corps as a LTC Marine aviator and now flies for Fed Express - he graduated from a small liberal arts college with a BA degree in "liberal studies," and commissioned through NROTC. The Marine Corps does not care how you commission or where you went to college - it's your ability to think on your feet, and your leadership qualities that count - and "Mustangs" are valued just as much if not more than USNA or NROTC. Get the best education you can and work on your physical fitness - and you have to truly want to be a Marine.
 
...... not a decision swing point for you but ..... my DD is headed to UMich this fall as well. She is NROTC- Nursing Corps Option. It’s the #3 nursing school in the world per some folks over at Forbes and US News. It’s also a great place graduating happy prepared for the world young leaders. Go Blue.

What did you decide to do? Either way ..... you will be winning!

I will share ..... I have 2 friends who went USNA and are both current Marine Corps Generals. One was a Harrier pilot and the other Cobras. Incredible men .... both have sons who chose NROTC-MO over USNA. One is a rising freshman and the other a rising junior. My brother chose NROTC-MO over the USNA in the end as well after much deliberation upon the surprise of both options working out. He never looked back and also still works for the USMC as well. He bounces between Quantico, 8th and I and the a Pentagon. He’s had a terrifically successful career. As well.... I met a father at induction yesterday who also went to the USNA and was a Navy pilot. His daughter is NROTC majoring in engineering. No matter ...you will be prepared to lead. You can’t go wrong.
 
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