So, it is free: Polite and meaningful answer

I live about 10 miles from Camp Lejeune. The sounds of freedom from rotary aircraft and artillery rattle my windows on a regular basis. When the big guns are booming my wife sometimes asks if it's thunder and I reply "No dear, it's the sound of freedom". You'd think a Marine Mom would catch on.
 
I and family lived in base housing three times. We lived aboard Camp Lejeune in the mid 90s. This was my second time at Lejeune but the first time with dependents. I loved base housing where the electric and AC and water flowed free. At Lejeune, the tactical vehicles shared the roads with the soccer mom vans. The aircraft and weapons that went boom were part of the deal. Kids stopped playing and stood at attention for evening colors. It didn’t take long to pay respects to Old Glory. My house at Cecil Field was at the landing pattern for Hornets and Vikings, and the occasional C-2. We could see the pilot as they banked toward the deck. We lived off base in Virginia Beach just outside NAS Oceana when the Tomcats were still flying. I thought the F-14 was the loudest plane ever until I heard the Hornet. I miss those days but live close to several bases and have contact occasionally with old shipmates. I also live vicariously through my son’s career. In his early years I would advise him as I would any junior officer but he has just completed his second company command and the senior enlisted he has been blessed with has been top notch. I now just sit back and enjoy the ride.
 
It's not free the government spends lavishly on academy educations. The only thing more expensive than the well trained military officers the country needs to kill people and break things is poorly trained ones.
 
coachkarl said:
StPaulDad said:
"Free school, free haircut AND a job waiting at graduation. He's pretty excited."
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Free haircut ... FTW!

For some reason, that made me laugh out loud.
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Of course, the haircut is not actually free. The Midshipman does pay for it. There are monthly charges against each Midshipman's account for laundry, tailor shop and barber which are charged whether the services are used or not. Considering that they are paying the barber shop, I'd not consider it to be a free haircut.
 
It's as free as the education. Which is to say that's what people think they know and what they prefer to have reinforced. But like the job there's more to it than the initial impression and maybe it starts to dawn on folks that "free" has degrees to it.
 
Monarchs'19 said:
Like any other parents, we are very proud, happy and humble that our DS decided to be part of the noble cause of serving the country and ready to continue the family legacy to service.

Now that neighbors, friends and others getting to know of his appointment to West Point, I was wondering what would be a polite and meaningful answer to a question "so... it's free education?" without offending anyone asking this. I'm sure, they don't have bad intention, but, the way it comes out dampens all the commitment factor to reach to this point and beyond 4 years at the academy.

Congratulations to all the cadets/midshipman c/o 2023 and well wishes for the continued success.
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I would also offer another thought. A Mid’s/Cadet’s SA life evolves like any other. Often, around their junior year, some develop and express a negative attitude about their SA life when this question is posed to them. (Normally, shortlived and gone by senior year) The problem is that there are only two opinions on our children’s service: First is extreme gratitude and respect for the sacrifice, and the other is disdain for having to pay for your child’s education. In both cases neither person wants to hear complaining.

The takeaway I think is to complain in private, but represent in public.
 
I've thought about this thread for a while after reading through the comments. Please don't yell at me too much but I have a slightly different perspective on the question the OP asked.

When someone comments to me that "it must be nice that they got a free education", I don't disagree, although in my son's cases it was not entirely free, they still had to pay room and board. When it comes to the SA's where everything is paid for I guess I agree that it was a free education. Now having two sons currently serving I realize and understand the commitment they had upon graduation, but to be fair there are many officers serving the same commitment ( I understand that that commitment may be shorter) that did not attend a SA or have a ROTC scholarship. A large number of those that commission through ROTC had 3 year scholarships so they had to pay the first year as well as room and board yet they still have the service obligation, in comparison, those that attend a SA did get a complete free education.

I believe that the vast majority of our sons and daughters go to SA's or do ROTC out of a desire to serve their country in the Armed Forces and Merchant Marines, not for the free education but in all honesty, it's not a bad perk.

Most of the time when anyone says it must be nice that they had their college paid for, I tell them the government didn't pay for their school, they gave them a student loan and the repayment was their service obligation. Unlike the school scholarships their kids received which carry no obligation upon graduation. That, they usually understand.
 
rdhdstpchld said:
i used to tease dh about his 'free' education bc I was ROTC (always good natured and in jest; I've always been jealous actually); his response was always "yeah, shoved up my a$$ one nickel at a time" -- he absolutely loved his SA time, but it's apparently a common reply among that crowd. LOL!
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Have used that line myself--lol.
 
Jcleppe said:
Most of the time when anyone says it must be nice that they had their college paid for, I tell them the government didn't pay for their school, they gave them a student loan and the repayment was their service obligation. Unlike the school scholarships their kids received which carry no obligation upon graduation. That, they usually understand.
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I like this response Jcleppe. Because to describe it as 'free' really isn't accurate. Not with all the work that is involved on the part of the cadet and later as an officer. There is nothing free about it.
 
Jcleppe said:
Most of the time when anyone says it must be nice that they had their college paid for, I tell them the government didn't pay for their school, they gave them a student loan and the repayment was their service obligation. Unlike the school scholarships their kids received which carry no obligation upon graduation. That, they usually understand.
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As usual, @Jcleppe is the voice of reason. His response to the "free education" comment is spot on perfect, although I never used it. If his response was the Yin, then mine was the Yang.

When someone made a comment like that to me, I assumed they knew nothing. I would tell them that xROTC is indeed a great deal, that it's open to anyone and that the scholarships are more accessible than they may think. I told them that ROTC was like a fun/challenging series of extra-curricular activities with excellent summer opportunities--never a word about commitment. If they don't know that much then I might as well try explaining baseball to a Mongolian yak herder.

Jcleppe said:
I've thought about this thread for a while after reading through the comments. Please don't yell at me too much but I have a slightly different perspective on the question the OP asked.
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Feel free to yell at me.

I always have downplayed or ignored the "service to the country" sentiment. Not that it isn't a legitimate sentiment, but rather because I didn't believe that was my DS's motivation. There were things he wanted to do and the Army was his ticket. It would have been disingenuous to feed into a jingoistic narrative about military service which is so grossly misunderstood by the 90+% of Americans, who like me, never served. There is nothing wrong with going into an SA or ROTC or an enlistment to prove oneself and asking what's in it for me. That is what post-adolescent kids do. My DS was no exception.

What he learned in 4 years of AROTC and 3 1/2 years of AD was how to use/develop his talents/skills and learn new ones to further the team, which in turn advances the larger mission, which theoretically is in service of the nation. His effectiveness is rewarded. It's a virtuous cycle, borne of his self-interest.

I would take it a step further and suggest that working one's tail off while waiting to be told what to do in service of the "institution" of the military can lead to a very unsatisfying outcome.
 
Jcleppe said:
When it comes to the SA's where everything is paid for
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Everything? I paid for my uniforms, all of them while my ROTC peer got theirs issued to them. I also paid for things like laundry, haircuts, shoe repair, etc
WHETHER I USED THEM OR NOT while my ROTC peer paid when and if he used them. I paid for my books, even the Naval Science courses while my ROTC peers did not.

No, I'm not saying that the Service Academy students pay for a lot but saying that EVERYTHING is paid for is a bit of a stretch.
 
cb7893 said:
I always have downplayed or ignored the "service to the country" sentiment. Not that it isn't a legitimate sentiment, but rather because I didn't believe that was my DS's motivation. There were things he wanted to do and the Army was his ticket. It would have been disingenuous to feed into a jingoistic narrative about military service which is so grossly misunderstood by the 90+% of Americans, who like me, never served. There is nothing wrong with going into an SA or ROTC or an enlistment to prove oneself and asking what's in it for me. That is what post-adolescent kids do. My DS was no exception.

What he learned in 4 years of AROTC and 3 1/2 years of AD was how to use/develop his talents/skills and learn new ones to further the team, which in turn advances the larger mission, which theoretically is in service of the nation. His effectiveness is rewarded. It's a virtuous cycle, borne of his self-interest.

I would take it a step further and suggest that working one's tail off while waiting to be told what to do in service of the "institution" of the military can lead to a very unsatisfying outcome.
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For plenty of kids, as it was for me, its a calling. Do you ever question why a priest or minister goes into the clergy? For most that I've known, it was not to find a paycheck or to somehow develop themselves for a bright future in life, instead it is because they believe in the church and the need for someone to help lead the flock.
While I did have other secondary motivations, I had wanted to serve the country since early childhood because the history that I read was rife with the nations need for people to defend it and further, I was exposed to holocaust survivors and was determined to try to help prevent that from ever happening again and in any case not happening here.
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When things got tough during plebe summer/year (old system), those motivations helped keep me there whereas if my motivation was to better myself, I probably would have ejected and headed for Whatsamatta U. No, I'm not denigrating those who apply/attend for what it does for them and I certainly told my kids what it did for me but rest assured that there are plenty who have motivations similar to those espoused by President Kennedy.
 
OldRetSWO said:
Everything? I paid for my uniforms, all of them while my ROTC peer got theirs issued to them. I also paid for things like laundry, haircuts, shoe repair, etc
WHETHER I USED THEM OR NOT while my ROTC peer paid when and if he used them. I paid for my books, even the Naval Science courses while my ROTC peers did not.

No, I'm not saying that the Service Academy students pay for a lot but saying that EVERYTHING is paid for is a bit of a stretch.
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I apologize that I didn't mention that SA cadets and mids pay for the things you mentioned, but it was my understanding that SA cadets and mids receive payment every month which they in turn have to pay for things like uniforms, books, haircuts, laundry ect. Granted ROTC cadets and mids are issued uniforms once they are contracted, they are the hand me downs from previous classes as well as new (sometimes) ACU's. At the end of school they turn these back in or they can purchase the ACU's they had during school. ROTC cadets and mids also pay for their books, laundry, haircuts, ect, although their monthly check is not as high as the SA's which is why they supplied all the ROTC related study material.

I agree with you though, no matter what stipend or paycheck they receive, there were always extra expenses so "Everything was paid for" would be incorrect.
 
Our JROTC colonel and I were in the office yesterday waiting on the copier. His son has an appointment to USMA. I asked him if anybody has told him yet about how great it will be for his son to get a free education. He kind of looked at me sideways and said, "It's not free, I had to pay 2000 dollars." I chuckled and told him why I said that. I didn't do into details but I was thinking of this thread. I'll let him know about this site though as he will be a great asset if he joins.
 
As someone who has had all of my education through PhD paid for by the military, I have to say that I have always felt very fortunate to have the American people pay for an education, allow me to do something I loved for 24 years, and set me up for a great paying civilian job after retirement. Yes there were sacrifices, but I loved being in the service and would not trade my experience for anything. So in the end I feel gratitude to a country that provided me some awesome opportunities.
 
At DS's high school senior awards ceremony the value of a service academy education and a 4 year ROTC scholarship at a private university was listed as $195,208. A ROTC scholarship at a public university was valued at $100,000.
I understand the ball park $100,000 number but where did the $195,208 number come from? Seems too exact not to come from an official source.
 
Overwhelmed said:
At DS's high school senior awards ceremony the value of a service academy education and a 4 year ROTC scholarship at a private university was listed as $195,208. A ROTC scholarship at a public university was valued at $100,000.
I understand the ball park $100,000 number but where did the $195,208 number come from? Seems too exact not to come from an official source.
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195 is significant underestimate of the cost of a SA education. Top civilian liberal arts schools now cost more than 70K/year, so the true value of a SA education is well in excess of 300K. Not sure where the 195 number came from but my guess is its an old number.
 
If you search the threads... I see that it’s generally been valued at around $450,000-ish. At our school, we put in our own number. As I recall from inquiring here when trying to come up with a figure, USNA used to report a figure. And they stopped some time ago.
 
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