Presidential directive to loosen service obligation of SA and ROTC athletes

Not an issue as long as they pay the government back for the education and training - currently $240,000 ($60k/year).

They have gotten much tougher about requiring others to reimburse costs; no reason to let athletes off the hook.
 
bopper said:
How many athletes are pro-level at the Academies?
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Many more if they can go pro right away - not a small number when combining football, basketball, baseball, soccer, tennis, and others.

No lose situation for SA athletic recruit:
  • Service Academy: Pro athlete if they are good enough. Commissioned Officer if they are not.
  • Civilian College: Pro athlete if they are good enough. Serve fries if they are not.
 
jl123 said:
Many more if they can go pro right away - not a small number when combining football, basketball, baseball, soccer, tennis, and others.
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This is the essence of my not-understood-as-sarcastic comment.

With everything going on in the world,:at the border, in Congress, ridiculous promises of student debt forgiveness, this is what sits in the new Sec Def's inbox. My guess is the President is thinking about a draft pick in one of the major professional men's sports. What's good for the high profile QB, had better be good for the Women's volleyball player.

This is the DOD remember. How many people hours will be needed to write the regs on this? Probably about as many as it took to stop the Military parade down Pennsylvania Ave.

jl123 said:
No lose situation for SA athletic recruit:
  • Service Academy: Pro athlete if they are good enough. Commissioned Officer if they are not.
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They are guaranteed a five year management position in one of over a dozen fields. No company/institution does this. They get first dibs (deservedly) over their ROTC and OTS/OCS competitors in choosing their field of preference. Their benefits are only bested by the largest and most profitable financial institutions who will not guarantee their employment beyond two years.

jl123 said:
Civilian College: Pro athlete if they are good enough. Serve fries if they are not.
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Not exactly.

If you can maintain a decent GPA, if you can assiduously apply for and get internships, if you leave nothing to chance and your good looks, if you heeded your parents' warning that it's not the 1970' and 80's job market anymore, if you can get one response for every ten resumes sent and still keep plugging away, you will not serve fries.

Source: My two son's experiences.
 
Alejandro Villanueva is one of the few service academy graduates who has been a consistent starter in a major sports league for the last couple of years and guess what? He served his five years and deployed to combat. Most service academy athletes end up in the minors in baseball or a special team player in the NFL. They probably would have done better professionally and financially if they had stayed in the active service.
 
jl123 said:
Not an issue as long as they pay the government back for the education and training - currently $240,000 ($60k/year).

They have gotten much tougher about requiring others to reimburse costs; no reason to let athletes off the hook.
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What's the value of a walking talking billboard on TV every Sunday?
 
The serving fries comment was meant as hyperbole. Some that do not make it to the pro's do very well, but many end up with mediocre prospects after spending years concentrating on sports rather than academics.

Great value in Staubach, Villanueva, etc. Doesn't mean that athletes should be treated differently than others that separate after graduation. SA's don't have difficulty recruiting outstanding officer candidates, just difficulty in recruiting top athletes.
 
Korab said:
jl123 said:
Not an issue as long as they pay the government back for the education and training - currently $240,000 ($60k/year).

They have gotten much tougher about requiring others to reimburse costs; no reason to let athletes off the hook.
Click to expand...
What's the value of a walking talking billboard on TV every Sunday?
Click to expand...

A billboard advertising what?
 
cb7893 said:
Korab said:
jl123 said:
Not an issue as long as they pay the government back for the education and training - currently $240,000 ($60k/year).

They have gotten much tougher about requiring others to reimburse costs; no reason to let athletes off the hook.
Click to expand...
What's the value of a walking talking billboard on TV every Sunday?
Click to expand...

A billboard advertising what?
Click to expand...
Hopefully an outstanding young person of high moral character who college applicants and prospective college athletes can look up to and cause them consider an Academy and service to their country.
 
So many...so concerned about so few...

No one will be exempt from serving..

Will simply delay service.

Again, this is a non issue.
 
A regular cycle in admissions/athletic recruiting primarily driven by football.

Academy embarrassed by losing team -> Academy reduces impediments to recruiting -> Team wins -> Academy increases impediments to recruiting -> Academy embarrassed by losing team

USMA Class of 2021 had 358 recruited athletes, 26.7% of the class. Teams are competitive across the board. No reason to further compromise admissions/service standards to get better athletes, just as fitness standards would not be compromised to get more Rhodes Scholars.
 
jl123 said:
Not an issue as long as they pay the government back for the education and training - currently $240,000 ($60k/year).

They have gotten much tougher about requiring others to reimburse costs; no reason to let athletes off the hook.
Click to expand...
This. It is unfair to require those who don’t take a commission to repay their costs, while simultaneously allowing others to forego military service just because they are good at sports.
 
Soldiergriz said:
So many...so concerned about so few...

No one will be exempt from serving..

Will simply delay service.

Again, this is a non issue.
Click to expand...

How would you handle a Bo Jackson type injury?

How would you handle the Female athlete who wants to go make $50K playing volleyball or try to play the WTA satellite tour?

By the time the Cadet/Mid Athletes have completed two seasons of D1 athletics, they ought to have a pretty good idea if they are pro material. If they are then they can leave under current rules--no payback and no questions asked--and are free to transfer or hit the draft or sit in a tree and play the flute. They should s*** or get off the pot.

The constant demand for favors and special dispensations everywhere in society gets a little tiresome after awhile.
 
Korab said:
cb7893 said:
Korab said:
jl123 said:
Not an issue as long as they pay the government back for the education and training - currently $240,000 ($60k/year).

They have gotten much tougher about requiring others to reimburse costs; no reason to let athletes off the hook.
Click to expand...
What's the value of a walking talking billboard on TV every Sunday?
Click to expand...

A billboard advertising what?
Click to expand...
Hopefully an outstanding young person of high moral character who college applicants and prospective college athletes can look up to and cause them consider an Academy and service to their country.
Click to expand...

That ad would sent the message, "Come to XYZ Academy and you can still pursue your dream of going pro."

I'd rather the ad feature a former SA athlete in RASP or standing watch on the bridge or climbing out of an airplane, saying, "I played xyz at an elite level and now I am pursuing my dreams in the Army/Navy/Air Force/Marines."
 
cb7893 said:
Soldiergriz said:
So many...so concerned about so few...

No one will be exempt from serving..

Will simply delay service.

Again, this is a non issue.
Click to expand...

How would you handle a Bo Jackson type injury?

How would you handle the Female athlete who wants to go make $50K playing volleyball or try to play the WTA satellite tour?

By the time the Cadet/Mid Athletes have completed two seasons of D1 athletics, they ought to have a pretty good idea if they are pro material. If they are then they can leave under current rules--no payback and no questions asked--and are free to transfer or hit the draft or sit in a tree and play the flute. They should s*** or get off the pot.

The constant demand for favors and special dispensations everywhere in society gets a little tiresome after awhile.
Click to expand...

How would they handle a similar injury to a Rhodes Scholar? How about a grad attending medical school?

Geez...
 
Soldiergriz said:
cb7893 said:
Soldiergriz said:
So many...so concerned about so few...

No one will be exempt from serving..

Will simply delay service.

Again, this is a non issue.
Click to expand...

How would you handle a Bo Jackson type injury?

How would you handle the Female athlete who wants to go make $50K playing volleyball or try to play the WTA satellite tour?

By the time the Cadet/Mid Athletes have completed two seasons of D1 athletics, they ought to have a pretty good idea if they are pro material. If they are then they can leave under current rules--no payback and no questions asked--and are free to transfer or hit the draft or sit in a tree and play the flute. They should s*** or get off the pot.

The constant demand for favors and special dispensations everywhere in society gets a little tiresome after awhile.
Click to expand...

How would they handle a similar injury to a Rhodes Scholar? How about a grad attending medical school?

Geez...
Click to expand...

The military needs MD’s and this is how they replenish its ranks.

The military has an endless supply of D1 Athletes from the academies. What marginal utility is there in having a couple go pro? To star in an Ad campaign?

You’re point about injuries is well taken in regard to Rhodes Scholars, although one could argue the marginal utility to the military of adding another athlete to the ranks vs adding another deep thinker. Lord knows we have enough deep thinkers.

Make no mistake I am all for the SA’s having strong athletic programs the same I’m supportive of having strong academic programs. I appreciate the particular value of elite athletes to the military.

My issues are two:

  • Do 5 years AD like everyone else or pay back the tuition. Anything that elevates the importance of the individual while deemphasizing the centrality of Military service to the SAs’ mission is not a good thing.
  • If there are exceptions for football players, you have to do the same for athletes in half dozen other sports.
 
cb7893 said:
Soldiergriz said:
cb7893 said:
Soldiergriz said:
So many...so concerned about so few...

No one will be exempt from serving..

Will simply delay service.

Again, this is a non issue.
Click to expand...

How would you handle a Bo Jackson type injury?

How would you handle the Female athlete who wants to go make $50K playing volleyball or try to play the WTA satellite tour?

By the time the Cadet/Mid Athletes have completed two seasons of D1 athletics, they ought to have a pretty good idea if they are pro material. If they are then they can leave under current rules--no payback and no questions asked--and are free to transfer or hit the draft or sit in a tree and play the flute. They should s*** or get off the pot.

The constant demand for favors and special dispensations everywhere in society gets a little tiresome after awhile.
Click to expand...

How would they handle a similar injury to a Rhodes Scholar? How about a grad attending medical school?

Geez...
Click to expand...

The military needs MD’s and this is how they replenish its ranks.

The military has an endless supply of D1 Athletes from the academies. What marginal utility is there in having a couple go pro? To star in an Ad campaign?

You’re point about injuries is well taken in regard to Rhodes Scholars, although one could argue the marginal utility to the military of adding another athlete to the ranks vs adding another deep thinker. Lord knows we have enough deep thinkers.

Make no mistake I am all for the SA’s having strong athletic programs the same I’m supportive of having strong academic programs. I appreciate the particular value of elite athletes to the military.

My issues are two:

  • Do 5 years AD like everyone else or pay back the tuition. Anything that elevates the importance of the individual while deemphasizing the centrality of Military service to the SAs’ mission is not a good thing.
  • If there are exceptions for football players, you have to do the same for athletes in half dozen other sports.
Click to expand...

Yep...all sports...men and women. Still can count them without your toes.

There is no magic about grads to medical school to produce MDs for the Army. The Army can produce MDs via educational delay for ROTC grads or direct ascesisons. The opportunity provides the chance for grads to fulfill their full potential.

There is no difference for athletes. Why would anyone be against propelling them to their full potential? They will serve thereafter

As a long serving infantryman, I can assure you we need professional caliber athletes to lead platoons of infantrymen, paratroopers, and Rangers....as much as we need MDs.
 
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