Honest advice needed

D

dogrunner25

New Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Messages
8
Hi! Okay.. so I know I made a previous post about dating at the Naval Academy. But here's the big one.

So, currently I'm a high school senior interested in attending the Naval Academy. My dad was the one who initially brought it up to me- being enlisted has been in my family for a long time. (To go a little deeper... I really want to be a Naval pilot- Blue Angels, baby!)

But my currently dilemma is... my Boyfriend is currently a plebe. Ironic, huh?

If I DO make it to the Naval Academy, through nominations and appointments.. what would happen if my boyfriend and I were still together? Would we be forced to break it off?
I haven't seen any questions about it.. which really intimidates me. I know the upfront answer is probably either to set it aside, break up, you won't have time, etc.. But both of us know we do not want to break it off.

(And before someone says it... I don't think I'll let my relationship get in the way of me going.. But I also love my boyfriend. I don't have to go more into that part.)
 
You will have to put it on hold. Or, you could go USAFA and go Thunderbird instead, in which case the rules might allow you to be together when on leave? You have tough choices to make.
 
Know the basic rules: a plebe cannot fraternize with an upperclassman. Doing so risks severe punishment. So what’s worth more to you, becoming a Blue Angel or being full-time steady with your boyfriend next year? Tough decision, to be sure. My only advice is: think long term.
 
You may not want to hear this, but you asked for "honest" advice. You're ~17. He's ~18. The chances that you make it long-term as a couple period, let along with either of you at a SA are <5%.

People change as they go through college. They are exposed to lots people they've never met before. They embark upon different experiences that they share with others. Their goals, ideas and objectives mature. The tales of breakups are many. The tales of making it through are few (though they certainly exist).

Look at it another way. Your BF did what was (I presume) best for his life/future in attending USNA. (IOW, he could have attended a civilian college where this wouldn't have been an issue). If your dream is USNA, he should want the very best for your life/future, as should you. Why should you be the one to compromise?

Finally, if your relationship is meant to be, it will survive 11 months of "cooling it." If it does, you have the rest of your lives to do whatever you want. If it doesn't, it probably wasn't meant to be.

[Note: the above comes from the perspective of someone who's lived a long life -- I realize things look very different when you're young and in love but all of us "old folks" were once young and in love. We know how it usually turns out.]
 
Yes. Think long term. Get the Offer of Appointment first. Worry about the other stuff later. The odds are actually against getting an Offer of Appointment, so you may be worrying for no reason.
Plan B should be NROTC. You get that, and you're still an Ensign 4 years later.
 
I echo BIG TIME to “think long term”. And not only in the situation of BF/GF, but in general. So much can change! I cannot imagine being an adult and regretting making any decision based upon a short term situation back in the day.

It’s less than a year. I would advise my own that if it’s meant to be, you can survive a year. In the future, you could be apart for a year (or longer...especially with both of you serving) in a deployment. Your situation isn’t that different from other couples spending time apart going to different colleges after high school.

My DH and myself were apart for 2 years post high school. For us it was hard but we did it. It’s a good “test” of true love. We just celebrated 35 years of marriage.

You don’t have to decide now. You have almost a year to go. The question has been answered for you, I simply would not worry about it at this point. Wait until having to decide “accept” before it’s an issue, imo.
 
justdoit19 said:
In the future, you could be apart for a year (or longer...especially with both of you serving) in a deployment
Click to expand...

Great point. As Naval Officers the chances are that you will be separated a lot more than you are together. As an 18 year old, relationships should come second to your career goals. As least that is what I would tell my DS.
 
A girl in my company just went through a similar situation. She was a youngster and her boyfriend from high school was a Plebe. They went to great lengths to ensure no one knew about their relationship. They archived their Instagram photos together and tried to eliminate any trace of their relationship. They would study in the library together daily but always did it in a manner that didn’t raise any red flags ( No PDA). After graduation, when they both ranked up, they started publicly dating again. What they did didn’t completely follow MIDREGS but they were able to make it work. I won’t condone this but they were able to stay out of trouble.
 
I have also seen this approach to hiding the relationship.

It takes effort to keep social media scrubbed, to avoid mentioning love life, to try to avoid lying about it when asked, to decide whether to confide in roommates and friends and involve them in the deceit (once more than 1 person knows a secret, it’s not one anymore), to daily have to think about not getting caught. It takes giving false impressions and colluding together to deliberately flout an established regulation.

It can be done, and is done, but it does take concentrated effort to practice the deceit from I-Day to Commissioning a Day.
 
There are two approaches to this... the one mentioned above and the other is for him to talk to his chain of command and you yours. You are way off from this having to happen as there is the relationship sustaining and you getting an appointment. I would let this year play out before making any decisions. Even if the chain of command knew... pretty much the same rules would be in place if they didn’t... under the radar, no hanging out in your rooms, no special treatment. Really it would be limited to being able to meet up here and there for a hello and a Saturday at a sponsors house. Good luck on your application.
 
The only other thing I want to bring up, @dogrunner25 - and I am not asking for a reply just asking for your own private reflection - is my hope you are not applying to USNA because BF is going there. I hope you want to apply because you see yourself serving as a Navy or Marine Corps Officer for at least 5 years after graduation, you are choosing USNA because you feel an immersion military experience is the best fit for you rather than a college NROTC experience, you would want to come to USNA regardless of where your boyfriend goes. If you weren’t together, would you apply?

Again, no answers asked of you here, just asking you to reflect on your life goals, your own development, your aspirations, at the start of your adult life. Having personal relationships is important, always, but they should be a balanced part of your life. Presumably your BF is urging you to explore various options and make the right choice for you, because that’s what happens in strong, mutually supportive, healthy relationships.

If you’re also looking at NROTC near the Annapolis area, GWU and UMD have fine programs.
 
Last edited:
DKTKT said:
Sorry to dumb down the conversation, what exactly are the rules about who can date who?
Click to expand...

Fraternization is prohibited “unduly familiar” relationships, which can include dating. Plebes can date each other and civilians. Upper class can date across those three classes and civilians. None of them can date enlisted personnel or commissioned officers. There is an exception on the commissioned officers. If a junior and a senior are dating, senior graduates and becomes an ensign or 2nd lieutenant, they may continue dating, as that is a previously existing relationship. Of course, you would not expect a mid to date civilian faculty either.
 
Capt MJ said:
The only other thing I want to bring up, @dogrunner25 - and I am not asking for a reply just asking for your own private reflection - is my hope you are not applying to USNA because BF is going there. I hope you want to apply because you see yourself serving as a Navy or Marine Corps Officer for at least 5 years after graduation, you are choosing USNA because you feel an immersion military experience is the best fit for you rather than a college NROTC experience, you would want to come to USNA regardless of where your boyfriend goes. If you weren’t together, would you apply?

Again, no answers asked of you here, just asking you to reflect on your life goals, your own development, your aspirations, at the start of your adult life. Having personal relationships is important, always, but they should be a balanced part of your life. Presumably your BF is urging you to explore various options and make the right choice for you, because that’s what happens in strong, mutually supportive, healthy relationships.

If you’re also looking at NROTC near the Annapolis area, GWU and UMD have fine programs.
Click to expand...

Also that you are not applying solely to be a Blue Angel. Or pilot for that matter. Neither may happen. Or they may, but they may not.
 
justdoit19 said:
Also that you are not applying solely to be a Blue Angel. Or pilot for that matter. Neither may happen. Or they may, but they may not.
Click to expand...
Not sure about the Navy but on the Army side there is an exception to the enlisted/officer similar to the officer/midshipman(Cadet) reg. If they are both enlisted and dating, then one does something to change their status to officer they have 1 year to either get married or sever the relationship.
Having said that I would echo what others have written. Don’t go to an Academy because your boyfriend is there, but don’t decline it because of him either. Cross those bridges as you come to them.
And echoing what others said about separation, if one or both are in the military get used to it. My DW and I were together while she was in flight school and I was an IP, but then spent 2 of the next three years apart. At one point I was in Africa for six months and she was in Korea. No email. Letters took 3-4 weeks each way. An occasional HF phone patch via a ham radio operator in the US who would contact a US DSN operator who would then make a DSN call to her in Korea. Yeah, I know. The latter will mean nothing to the OP. But know that it was a very public way of talking.
 
As has been said, you’d need to either end it or be super low-key about it. In all honesty though, Plebes don’t have a whole lot of time for dating anyway. You can do it, but also recognize that you’ll have so many extra stressors and limitations on your life that you won’t always get to make your relationship a priority.
 
Capt MJ said:
The only other thing I want to bring up, @dogrunner25 - and I am not asking for a reply just asking for your own private reflection - is my hope you are not applying to USNA because BF is going there. I hope you want to apply because you see yourself serving as a Navy or Marine Corps Officer for at least 5 years after graduation, you are choosing USNA because you feel an immersion military experience is the best fit for you rather than a college NROTC experience, you would want to come to USNA regardless of where your boyfriend goes. If you weren’t together, would you apply?

Again, no answers asked of you here, just asking you to reflect on your life goals, your own development, your aspirations, at the start of your adult life. Having personal relationships is important, always, but they should be a balanced part of your life. Presumably your BF is urging you to explore various options and make the right choice for you, because that’s what happens in strong, mutually supportive, healthy relationships.

If you’re also looking at NROTC near the Annapolis area, GWU and UMD have fine programs.
Click to expand...

I understand! I was honestly expecting someone to ask this...
I want to go for me. I decided that I would apply long before I met my boyfriend. But it just so happens.. my boyfriend got there a year ahead of me (he was a senior, when I was a junior).

Thank you everyone for your answers! It really means a lot to me. I know I want to attend USNA, regardless of me and my boyfriend. I was truly just unaware what would happen, or what we would face if we stayed together.
 
From what I understand from my 3 grads is that your boyfriend should inform his chain of command once you are appointed and when you arrive, you disclose the information to your chain of command. You will be expected to maintain a professional relationship while uou are a plebe at USNA, ie keep relationship private, no dating or texting, etc., but as long as you disclosed the pre-existing relationship you will not be required to break-up, and they will insure you are not in his chain of command.
If you google USNA Mid Regs 2018, and read chapter 3, it will give you a very clear understanding of what you can and can’t do. After your plebe year, as long as you aren’t in the same company/ chain of command you can date.
 
Last edited:
The primary source:

https://www.usna.edu/Commandant/Dir...NST-5400.6U_MIDSHIPMEN-REGULATIONS-MANUAL.pdf

Paragraph 3.5, pages 3-2 to 3-6.

The “pre-existing relationship” is one of the aspects often mis-applied and taken out of context by mids. Careful reading of MidRegs lays it all out very specifically. This hasn’t changed in years.

Skim all, but see:
3.2.2 (this is the key, prior existing does not apply with 4th class and upper class)
3.8.4 (relating to mid-enlisted personnel, including prior existing relationship, because that comes up here on SAF every so often)
3.9.2 (this is what I mentioned before, upperclass-upperclass relationship shifting to upperclass-ensign or 2nd lieutenant)

If you receive an appointment and the relationship still exists, your BF, as the responsible senior individual, should inform his chain of command before the end of the ac year, so the relationship can be communicated to the Plebe Summer organization. This would be to ensure you are not placed in his company.

At some point, you let your chain of command know.

Then, you go into freeze mode per the Regs, in terms of your interaction, between I-Day and Graduation Day.
 
Last edited:
Hi OP, the chances of you hiding an illegal relationship with an upperclassman are greater than being selected to the Naval Flight Demonstration Squadron. I always chuckle when I hear, “You can be anything you want, including President of the United States.” Really? There are currently 44 men who have held that title, including.the current occupant of 1600. That is a veery exclusive club.
 
falconchic88 said:
If you google USNA Mid Regs 2018, and read chapter 3, it will give you a very clear understanding of what you can and can’t do
Click to expand...

One additional thought.... the MidRegs are all well and good..the "law" as you might say...but frankly, one always has to apply common sense to the law. Even though something may be permitted, according to the law, or MidRegs, you also have to consider how it will be perceived. I really don't think you (or BF) want to be standing in front of your Company Officer arguing your "rights" under the MidRegs.

It's a tough situation....but take it step by step, ie.. First, get into USNA. (And as mentioned before...make sure its for you, and you aren't following BF).. You shouldn't even mention this in your application, or to your BGO. Once in, kick ass and get squared away. I can assure you, you won't be thinking about a BF during Plebe Summer. Once Ac Year starts (and assuming you are still a couple), use common sense. Plebe Year is about establishing relationships and life long bonds with your Classmates. I am not going to recommend a "secret" relationship, although I'm sure it happens....if it does, you need to understand the consequences of discovery ...both official and unofficial (i.e. your relationship with your classmates).

PS ..why am I beginning to feel like Dr. Phil ? (and for the record, I don't think I have ever seen the Dr. Phil show...I work too much).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top