Presidential directive to loosen service obligation of SA and ROTC athletes

Unrealistic to think that professional athletes will finish career and then transition to active duty - at most they will do minimal training and PR work. Also, grads going to medical school incur additional service obligation - not a freebee for them.

Assuming that with lowering the impediment to a pro career academy athletes would have similar draft results as Stanford/Michigan in football 2019 - 5 (not Alabama with 10) and UVA in baseball 2018 - 6 (not Kentucky with 13):

11 draft picks in one year and didn't even get to basketball, hockey, soccer, golf, tennis, undrafted free agents, walk-ons, or any women's sports. Better to have a D-3 caliber athlete going directly to active duty.
 
Again...there is zero reason why DoD MDs need to come from the academies...none. There is zero reason the academies need to allow competition for Rhodes Scholarships or any other opportunity outside of reporting for BOLC. Yet, many are afforded these opportunities...dozens every year.

There is zero evidence to support your premise of more 4 or 5 star recruits coming to the academies as a trajectory to go pro. None. The comparison to Stanford or Michigan is simply not realistic and nearly hyperbolic.

This will create once-in-a-lifetime opportunities for a few...and no more.
 
Soldiergriz said:
This will create once-in-a-lifetime opportunities for a few...and no more.
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And a "few" means virtually none. There are zero 5-star's that go to SA's. While I personally think this is not much more than a publicity stunt and a very bad idea all the way around, the notion that suddenly there will be this influx of pro caliber candidates I think is far fetched.
 
@Soldiergriz, can we at least agree that everyone (Rhodes Scholars, Medical Students, Pro athletes), who is medically qualified should serve their AD commitment or pays back the tuition? No exception.
 
"Duty, Honor, Country,- or contract, whichever is more individually advantageous " is apparently the new approach? This is a crock. Pat Tillman leaving the NFL to enlist was good advertising as well as real patriotism- we shouldn't expect at least as much from someone who we paid to get a degree and a commission? Alejandro Villanueva and Roger Staubach and Rocky Bleier - going to war then going to the NFL is an example of elite athletes with their priorities in check- advertise them. This is just an embarrassment that insults the grads who did do their commitment - (even though they can see their peers from Harvard, Stanford and MIT walking into professionally lucrative positions immediately upon graduation). SA Cadets/ Midshipmen - Athletes included have 2 years (unlike their ROTC counterparts who only had one year) to decide if they have a future in the Army or whether they are better off at Frostbite Falls State (and in fact for recruited athletes - functionally they have 23 years since most spend a year at Prep school as well). It doesn't matter if there are 3 from the big 3 Academies or 30- the point is the same- this is wrong and bluntly - the advertising message that it really sends is a cynical one that is espoused by way too many including some pretty high profile people at the top of the current food chain ("everybody is in it primarily for themselves, and obligations just like taxes, are for suckers and those who can't figure out how to avoid them.").
 
bruno said:
It doesn't matter if there are 3 from the big 3 Academies or 30- the point is the same- this is wrong and bluntly - the advertising message that it really sends is a cynical one that is espoused by way too many including some pretty high profile people at the top of the current food chain ("everybody is in it primarily for themselves, and obligations just like taxes, are for suckers and those who can't figure out how to avoid them.").
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From my gut to your keyboard.
 
Alejandro Villanueva USMA offensive tackle for the Pittsburgh Steelers
Josh McNary USMA linebacker for the Indianapolis Colts
Collin Mooney USMA fullback Tennessee Titans and the Atlanta Falcons

Just USMA, just football, with significant barriers to going pro. Academies have had teams playing competitively with top D-1 programs even with recruiting impediments.

If the SA's can compete with the top universities for Rhodes Scholars with the impediment of physical and medical standards (USMA #5, USNA #10, USAFA #14), they can certainly compete with top colleges for athletic recruits if they chose to.

Remove the barriers to going pro and it is quite realistic for academies to place athletes in each sport in pros similar to Stanford, Michigan, UVA, Duke, etc. Schools that retain some degree of academic standards. Bad idea, but realistic.
 
Just for the record - SA's should be playing D-3 in all sports. D-1 college sports has become too professionalized to serve academy goals.
 
Side note on D3 sports: CG has allowed 3 USCGA graduates (1-2017; 2-2019) to train for the Olympics 2020. I do not know how they are paid, but I suspect, I say again suspect, they are on CG pay. I do not know if this fulfills part of their obligation or if that is extended.
 
Two of the Services have an elite program for military Olympic athletes that allows them to train, compete and represent their country while on AD. I had a Navy friend who was on the Olympic women’s track team in the early 80’s, as well as a USNA sponsor son who was allowed to go to Olympic training camp and trials as an elite sprinter. Both were assigned to recruiting duty during that time.

I suspect the Olympics is the key factor for these programs.

https://www.armymwr.com/programs-and-services/world-class-athlete-program

https://www.afimsc.af.mil/About-Us/...536330/air-force-world-class-athlete-program/

I think the MWR programs for Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard handle their elite athletes and Olympic contenders on more of a case basis.

There are probably few enough at this level, that the PR value outweighs lost manpower in the field.
 
I would have never expected this to be such a trigger for so many.
I too, think that the PR value far outweighs the lost peoplepower :D in the field.
 
The 2 greatest professional athletes to graduate from Service Academies, Roger Staubach and David Robinson, got no special service waivers, completed their service requirements, and went on to have Hall of Fame Professional careers. It can be done the right way.

Service Academies were created and are funded to produce military officers not professional athletes. No one on the field of battle gives a damn what Army, Navy, or Air Force's football record was last year, they have bigger issues to worry about. To further erode Academy admissions standards to admit even more otherwise unqualified athletes is insulting to every past and current SA Cadet,Airman, and Midshipman.. Lets not loose sight of the mission the SA's are charged with..
 
Soldiergriz said:
As a long serving infantryman, I can assure you we need professional caliber athletes to lead platoons of infantrymen, paratroopers, and Rangers....as much as we need MDs
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Athletic skill and being physically fit are two different things entirely. Some have both. Of course, we need HIGHLY physically fit people to lead platoons of infantrymen, paratroopers, and Rangers. But any healthy person of average height and weight can train them self to be a physical specimen. We really don't need pro athletes to defend the country. If academy athletes want to play pro sports, let them pay back their tuition or do their active duty later. Athletes should have to meet the same academic entry standards too. The Navy finally realized ten years ago that we will need STEM nerds to win the next war. I think they got that right. JMHO.
 
Try again, the true cost of an academy education is more like $100,ooo a year. The taxpayers should not be providing a free education to athletes who want a shot at the pros, if you are that good sign with Alabama or Ohio State. Also David Robinson did get a special waiver and only had to serve 2 years of active duty.
 
GaitherDad said:
Soldiergriz said:
As a long serving infantryman, I can assure you we need professional caliber athletes to lead platoons of infantrymen, paratroopers, and Rangers....as much as we need MDs
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Athletic skill and being physically fit are two different things entirely. Some have both. Of course, we need HIGHLY physically fit people to lead platoons of infantrymen, paratroopers, and Rangers. But any healthy person of average height and weight can train them self to be a physical specimen. We really don't need pro athletes to defend the country. If academy athletes want to play pro sports, let them pay back their tuition or do their active duty later. Athletes should have to meet the same academic entry standards too. The Navy finally realized ten years ago that we will need STEM nerds to win the next war. I think they got that right. JMHO.
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Said no one who has ever led a platoon of Rangers...
 
jl123 said:
Just for the record - SA's should be playing D-3 in all sports. D-1 college sports has become too professionalized to serve academy goals.
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How professionalized is D1 Crew? D1 Gymnastics, D1 Track, D1 Sailing, D1 Squash, etc? I know many many USNA grads who devoted themselves to their spots at USNA and then went on to outstanding Careers in the fleet and beyond.
Example: Jim Stavridis (retired 4 star).
Heck, lots of USNA Football players who did just fine in the fleet - like USMC Col Bob Destafney - former Commandant at USMMA after being Commandant at Cal Maritime. For that matter, Col Bill Fell, Current (acting) Athletic Director at USMMA.
 
Parent of 4 said:
The 2 greatest professional athletes to graduate from Service Academies, Roger Staubach and David Robinson, got no special service waivers, completed their service requirements, and went on to have Hall of Fame Professional careers. It can be done the right way.

Service Academies were created and are funded to produce military officers not professional athletes. No one on the field of battle gives a damn what Army, Navy, or Air Force's football record was last year, they have bigger issues to worry about. To further erode Academy admissions standards to admit even more otherwise unqualified athletes is insulting to every past and current SA Cadet,Airman, and Midshipman.. Lets not loose sight of the mission the SA's are charged with..
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David Robinson was allowed to go pro after only serving 2 years - special dispensations have been granted on a case by case basis for decades.

The antagonism some have towards sports and athletes is curious.
 
OldRetSWO said:
How professionalized is D1 Crew? D1 Gymnastics, D1 Track, D1 Sailing, D1 Squash, etc? I know many many USNA grads who devoted themselves to their spots at USNA and then went on to outstanding Careers in the fleet and beyond.
Example: Jim Stavridis (retired 4 star).
Heck, lots of USNA Football players who did just fine in the fleet - like USMC Col Bob Destafney - former Commandant at USMMA after being Commandant at Cal Maritime. For that matter, Col Bill Fell, Current (acting) Athletic Director at USMMA.
Click to expand...
Agree that in the past participation in D-1 sports did not hinder an athlete's prospects outside of sports. They won national championships. Heisman Trophies, etc. without compromising their status as student-athletes. Not surprising that academy athletes did well outside of athletics.

By professionalization I mean the process and attitude toward college athletics, not just a professional career path; today D-1 athletes are athlete-students - even in sports without a professional career path, although there may be exceptions. They train year round in their sport first and foremost, spending much more time on training than academics.

I know D-1 athletes whose coaches told them they couldn't choose certain majors because they were too rigorous and would interfere with athletics; and D-1 athletes that went to job interviews and were told they weren't competitive because they were training every summer while their competition was gaining valuable work experience.

The modern-day D-1 path is not one the academies can succeed at without compromising standards in a similar manner as civilian colleges, nor should they wish to. If they can compete at the D-1 level without compromising standards (Squash? Sailing?), then fine. All others should be D-3.
 
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