Junior/Senior classes

pohzalosta

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I'm currently a Junior in high school and I'm certain I'm applying to a SA. As I was planning my schedule for school ( all honors, DE, and AP) I realized I'm taking most of my stem classes that my school offers in my Junior year. I will be taking Physics, Chem II, CAD, Engineering, and Pre-Calculus. That only leaves me with Anatomy and Bio II and Calculus for senior year and I was wondering if this would have a negative impact on my application because it is not similar to plebe year classes. Any advice is much appreciated and welcome. Thank you!
 
I'm currently a Junior in high school and I'm certain I'm applying to a SA. As I was planning my schedule for school ( all honors, DE, and AP) I realized I'm taking most of my stem classes that my school offers in my Junior year. I will be taking Physics, Chem II, CAD, Engineering, and Pre-Calculus. That only leaves me with Anatomy and Bio II and Calculus for senior year and I was wondering if this would have a negative impact on my application because it is not similar to plebe year classes. Any advice is much appreciated and welcome. Thank you!

It’s all right here:
https://www.usna.edu/Admissions/Apply/General-Advice-for-Grades-9-12.php

That’s a general guide. The order or what year doesn’t have to be exact. These are the courses that will lay a good foundation for plebe year academics.

If you haven’t yet read read every page, dropdown and link at USNA.edu, I recommend it.
 
Taking AP and honors classes earlier in high school is generally a good sign. It suggests that you’re “advanced.”

DD took AP Calculus in 10th grade, then Multivariate Calculus in 11th grade. Her school didn’t offer any math classes beyond that, so she took no “math” in 12th grade (she did take AP Statistics and AP Computer Science). So as long as you’re taking the hardest STEM classes your school has to offer, when you take them is less of an issue.
 
You’re welcome.
 
In our house, we are all in the same boat regarding DS’s senior year other than ONE CLASS: AP Chem. He already took advanced chem (with lab) his sophomore year. It was a hard class. He would prefer to take AP Physics 2 senior year. Mom and Dad think AP Chem senior year would be a better choice. He is resisting.... he has a heavy, difficult load. Physics over Chem would provide a little relief, and he loves Physics. Chem? Not so much. Stayed Tuned!
 
It’s either pain now or pain later, in terms of heavy academic load.

Plebes at USNA have a heavy, difficult load which usually makes HS look like a spa day because of all the other demands on time. Chem and Calc are called The Plebe-Killers for good reason. A chunk of the Plebe class fails either one or both, and if they are otherwise sat, are usually assigned to involuntary summer school to re-take during one of the training blocks. The re-takers are not necessarily those who came from a HS that didn’t prepare them as well or those who aren’t STEM naturals.

He’s already checked the block with one year each of Chem and Physics, as well as AP. He could go either way.

Which would he rather be fresher in at the start of Plebe year? Physics isn’t usually taken until 3/c year, unless the right validations have occurred.

Pure logic says go for the Chem for best overall prep for a Plebe year, but taking other STEM you enjoy that allows a bit more breathing room as a HS senior should not be disregarded.

It has been said many times here on SAF that USNA wants to see an applicant take the hardest classes offered by their school. The competition will be doing that.

He sounds like he has worked very hard over the years. Good luck with the upcoming rollercoaster ride!
 
“Pure logic says go for the Chem for best overall prep for a Plebe year, but taking other STEM you enjoy that allows a bit more breathing room as a HS senior should not be disregarded.”

This is exactly where we are at. Exactly. His physics will be fresher since it is more recent. It’s also easier for him by his nature. Chem will be two years removed. And harder by nature. I vote chem. Unfortunately in his admissions briefing at NASS, they said the ‘one year’ chem so he has checked that box in his mind. Although to me, there is another “hardest class available” for Chem.

I also completely see and understand senior breathing room, if a box has been checked. And support and agree. But is it really checked if there is an AP level available he hasn’t taken? I guess that’s my REAL question/concern.
 
“Pure logic says go for the Chem for best overall prep for a Plebe year, but taking other STEM you enjoy that allows a bit more breathing room as a HS senior should not be disregarded.”

This is exactly where we are at. Exactly. His physics will be fresher since it is more recent. It’s also easier for him by his nature. Chem will be two years removed. And harder by nature. I vote chem. Unfortunately in his admissions briefing at NASS, they said the ‘one year’ chem so he has checked that box in his mind. Although to me, there is another “hardest class available” for Chem.

I also completely see and understand senior breathing room, if a box has been checked. And support and agree. But is it really checked if there is an AP level available he hasn’t taken? I guess that’s my REAL question/concern.

My DD chose AP physics C because it was recommended for students who plan to go into engineering. She didn’t even consider AP Chem. She’s also taking AP Govt, AP Eng and AP Calculus AB. I can’t imagine her also taking AP Chem! And she definitely enjoys physics more than chemistry.
 
“Pure logic says go for the Chem for best overall prep for a Plebe year, but taking other STEM you enjoy that allows a bit more breathing room as a HS senior should not be disregarded.”

This is exactly where we are at. Exactly. His physics will be fresher since it is more recent. It’s also easier for him by his nature. Chem will be two years removed. And harder by nature. I vote chem. Unfortunately in his admissions briefing at NASS, they said the ‘one year’ chem so he has checked that box in his mind. Although to me, there is another “hardest class available” for Chem.

I also completely see and understand senior breathing room, if a box has been checked. And support and agree. But is it really checked if there is an AP level available he hasn’t taken? I guess that’s my REAL question/concern.

My DD chose AP physics C because it was recommended for students who plan to go into engineering.
Ahh, the recommendations. I remember them from my own time. I remember being told that if you were going to major in Engineering or a
technical field to take German. These recommendations were coming from High School staff, especially guidance counselors who were "experts"
on this sort of thing (or so they thought). After a technical career, including long stretches as an engineer and even working internationally with
a number of Germans on a day to day basis, I am glad that I took Spanish as it has been far more useful to me than what they "experts" told me
back then.

Bottom Line - I know MANY MANY top level engineers who took regular High School Physics and then college level physics at USNA/whatever college
they studied at. More recently than I, my son was an Aero Major at USNA who also did not take AP Physics C in High School and did pretty well -
just outside the top 100 at USNA and did extremely well in Nuclear Power school/the fleet. Let him take what he wants and more importantly, what
he'll do well at. If he really wants the Physics, then fine. Not taking AP Chem will not hurt him when he takes real college chem at USNA or wherever.
 
And sometimes one has to gather all the info they can, commit to a decision and move forward. A wise person here has said that (@CaptMJ), it’s so true!!

That is a great re-read. Even for someone who has successfully navigated the process before (older brother is a Mid). Although it doesn’t clarify Mid Sibs choice re: chem/physics. Adds support to his argument. Mom may have to just pipe down and tell him decide. Although he is still seeking advice from me. He has until August to make any adjustments. Hopefully working through the application process will help him.
 
In our house, we are all in the same boat regarding DS’s senior year other than ONE CLASS: AP Chem. He already took advanced chem (with lab) his sophomore year. It was a hard class. He would prefer to take AP Physics 2 senior year. Mom and Dad think AP Chem senior year would be a better choice. He is resisting.... he has a heavy, difficult load. Physics over Chem would provide a little relief, and he loves Physics. Chem? Not so much. Stayed Tuned!
I can only tell you what Dean Latta told my daughter and a group of area applicants when he came to Atlanta to speak to some of them in 2014, right before the start of their senior year in highschool. He told them if they didn't have AP Chem on their schedule, to get in and get their schedules changed to include AP Chem.
 
If the choice is between AP Chem and AP Physics, and the regular versions of both have been taken already, then probably doesn’t matter as far as Admissions is concerned.

So if the impact on acceptance is a wash, then consider which would be more helpful should the candidate be appointed. One Mid’s experience: DD took both regular Chem and AP Chem in high school. Aced them both. Validated Chem 1, was told to skip Chem 2 and go directly to Modern Chem. Struggled mightily in Modern Chem — didn’t help that it was fall semester of plebe year — but came out OK in the end.

Moral of the story: Chem is required plebe year and, unless fully validated, will be a “killer” because of all the other stuff going on that year. So any prep going in should help tremendously. By the time Physics rolls around, typically in 3C year, Mid should have the hang of USNA life and cope better. As they say, YMMV.
 
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