Physical Fitness

Also, at the risk of coming off sexist, I think (in general) it is easier for fathers to let their sons take flight than it is for mothers (or for fathers and daughters) (this is just my observation and not applicable to specific cases).

I was going to say that too. Even though it may be sexist, I think it is true, in general. My 15 yr old DS went off to a NJROTC camp in Georgia this summer for a week. It was very strenous with something like 15 miles a day of running. Several kids, including my DS, ran until they were literally puking. It didn't bother me at all. I knew the Senior Chiefs would take care of the kids. But my DW was DYING. DS didn't mind it either. He loved being part of a tough group of kids. If I had a DD, I think I would have been more concerned. But hey, some young ladies are tougher than the boys. It was the first of several tough camps DS will do before he leaves for college one day. Hopefully, it will get him somewhat prepared to leave home. He is ready to leave now. Not every kid is the same.
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Our daughter said some kids were sent home from the Area 5 NJROTC Leadership week at Camp Pendleton VA last summer .... She said they couldn’t handle it physically. I don’t worry about her going to NAPS/USNA.
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I will miss gigging with her .... her on the piano and me on the guitar. My wife could count on her to cover for her at church on the piano when she wanted to take a Sunday off .... no breaks for her now. Oh well.
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I’ll miss all this about her not being here. But I got a lot of unfinished projects to keep me busy.
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Also, at the risk of coming off sexist, I think (in general) it is easier for fathers to let their sons take flight than it is for mothers (or for fathers and daughters) (this is just my observation and not applicable to specific cases).

I was going to say that too. Even though it may be sexist, I think it is true, in general. My 15 yr old DS went off to a NJROTC camp in Georgia this summer for a week. It was very strenous with something like 15 miles a day of running. Several kids, including my DS, ran until they were literally puking. It didn't bother me at all. I knew the Senior Chiefs would take care of the kids. But my DW was DYING. DS didn't mind it either. He loved being part of a tough group of kids. If I had a DD, I think I would have been more concerned. But hey, some young ladies are tougher than the boys. It was the first of several tough camps DS will do before he leaves for college one day. Hopefully, it will get him somewhat prepared to leave home. He is ready to leave now. Not every kid is the same.
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Our daughter said some kids were sent home from the Area 5 NJROTC Leadership week at Camp Pendleton VA last summer .... She said they couldn’t handle it physically. I don’t worry about her going to NAPS/USNA.
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I will miss gigging with her .... her on the piano and me on the guitar. My wife could count on her to cover for her at church on the piano when she wanted to take a Sunday off .... no breaks for her now. Oh well.
.
I’ll miss all this about her not being here. But I got a lot of unfinished projects to keep me busy.
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I'm far from being a perfect parent, but one thing we got right was raising independent, self-sufficient kids. Our 17 and 20 Mids complained occasionally, particularly during PY, but they were venting. They never expected us to get involved. The only time I tried to help was the first time our 17 traveled through DCA instead of BWI. I researched transportation while he was in the air. By the time I finally got him on the phone, he was half way back to the Academy taking the exact method of transportation I had found. I have never gotten involved again.

You can’t call the principal or the Dean at USNA. One of ours was royally screwed in a class, and I don’t think it would have stood at any other school. None of us said anything. Life lesson learned. Move on.

I never make fun of the parent questions on FB, but tons of them are ridiculous. Land the damn helicopters. Your kid is in the Navy now. Way past time for him or her to make their own way.

As for conditioning, it is getting worse. We are raising a fat and unhealthy group of kids, and more of them show up to USNA all the time. Ours went there in great shape, and that made all the difference in the world. They have seen others whose bodies tell their minds, “We can’t do this. This sucks. How bout we get chits or get the hell out of here.” Then, their minds enter a downward spiral. Hell, one kid showed up to I-Day with a body fat % so high that the kid was sent home immediately. (Had to be some questionable stuff in that application process. Enormously high number!)

The only advice I give Plebes to be: get in the best shape of your life. Then, take it as it comes, and revel in the funny stuff. Our Mids don’t want to repeat PS, but they handled it and occasionally look back on it with pretty good thoughts.

Finally, I told both Mids: Remember, the only real difference between you and them is that they know what comes next. Once you do as well, it all slows down and becomes much easier.
 
The whole person admissions process for USNA as reported by the US General Accounting Office in 2003 to the House of Representatives shows physical aptitude as only given 5% weight (versus 10% for USMA and no separate weighting for USAFA, it's a part of "Selections panel" weighting.) If this little of the selection process is devoted to physical aptitude, is it any wonder many applicants are not the most physically fit? (Granted 2003 report is a bit dated, but I doubt the weight given to physical aptitude has ramped up.)
 

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The whole person admissions process for USNA as reported by the US General Accounting Office in 2003 to the House of Representatives shows physical aptitude as only given 5% weight (versus 10% for USMA and no separate weighting for USAFA, it's a part of "Selections panel" weighting.) If this little of the selection process is devoted to physical aptitude, is it any wonder many applicants are not the most physically fit? (Granted 2003 report is a bit dated, but I doubt the weight given to physical aptitude has ramped up.)
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I think it makes sense that USMA would weight the physical score more than USNA.

Keep in mind, a candidate must pass (Not fail) CFA first, according to the thresholds for each of the events, and any composite rules across multiple events. Just guessing. Then the weighting (10% or 5% ?) would apply to the score I think.
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I wouldn’t put too much stock in a report from 2003. USNA does not publish their WCS, weights, scoring. This is a decade and a half old. Also, I disagree with somehow Navy needing to somehow have less physical standards than USMA. Sure the Army rucks and on the outside appears more physically demanding. But once you peel back the layers on Navy... you need physically fit officers. Talking rough numbers... 25% of a class goes Marines. Another ~35 positions are SEALs. Another 10 EOD. Throw in another ~300 as pilots and NFOs. Flying is very challenging on the human body. Being able to handle pulling Gs takes some effort. Long missions... requires stamina. Between SWO and Subs is about ~400. Sure on the surface it appears Less physically demanding. It probably is less than an infantry officer... throw in the need for some of these officers to also be qualified dive officers. Tough school and must be in shape. Throw in officers who lead boarding parties... climbing over the sides of ships on rough seas, leading search and seizure ops in full gear. This is similar to an urban exercise I would of done in the Marines but on something that floats, moves and tighter spaces. All takes stamina.

The failure rate for the initial PRT (day 3) is high. It was around 56% this year (a littler higher than normal). The pass rate after Plebe Summer is near 97% pretty consistently. They won’t graduate if they don’t pass the PRT. Stats are less than 1% who don’t graduate due to PRT. The USNA PRT isn’t the hardest test ever, but it isn’t a cake walk either. The current plebes are testing some new standards this summer during PEP... cadence push ups and planks... it’s being evaluated for possible changes to ramp up the standards not only for USNA but big Navy.
 
... and if you want to be a Marine you better be physically fit.

EDIT: cross-posted with Hoops.
 
I wouldn’t put too much stock in a report from 2003. USNA does not publish their WCS, weights, scoring. This is a decade and a half old. Also, I disagree with somehow Navy needing to somehow have less physical standards than USMA. Sure the Army rucks and on the outside appears more physically demanding. But once you peel back the layers on Navy... you need physically fit officers. Talking rough numbers... 25% of a class goes Marines. Another ~35 positions are SEALs. Another 10 EOD. Throw in another ~300 as pilots and NFOs. Flying is very challenging on the human body. Being able to handle pulling Gs takes some effort. Long missions... requires stamina. Between SWO and Subs is about ~400. Sure on the surface it appears Less physically demanding. It probably is less than an infantry officer... throw in the need for some of these officers to also be qualified dive officers. Tough school and must be in shape. Throw in officers who lead boarding parties... climbing over the sides of ships on rough seas, leading search and seizure ops in full gear. This is similar to an urban exercise I would of done in the Marines but on something that floats, moves and tighter spaces. All takes stamina.

The failure rate for the initial PRT (day 3) is high. It was around 56% this year (a littler higher than normal). The pass rate after Plebe Summer is near 97% pretty consistently. They won’t graduate if they don’t pass the PRT. Stats are less than 1% who don’t graduate due to PRT. The USNA PRT isn’t the hardest test ever, but it isn’t a cake walk either. The current plebes are testing some new standards this summer during PEP... cadence push ups and planks... it’s being evaluated for possible changes to ramp up the standards not only for USNA but big Navy.

I agree with about 98%. Not 100% because I’ve unfortunately seen a few anomalies. I watched someone who did not pass the final PRT commission. It was a travesty! Also, go to a sub school graduation. You will be shocked at the physical condition of quite a few grads. As one person told me, though, they don’t need to be in great shape to sit in chairs. That being said, the people I was there to see were in fantastic shape. All Academy grads.
 
If someone falls into that 1% or less after 4 years and can’t pass... then they don’t deserve to graduate. They know the standards. I have been to several sub school, flight school and other graduations. Yes, some with new freedom of food and deciding what to eat don’t do well. It’s a small number. Sure they don’t need to be in great shape to sit in chair, but they do to fight fires, stopping water in floods and every sub needs qualified dive officers.
 
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What do they do with the final PRT if someone comes in injured or under the weather?
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The PRT is taken each semester at USNA. Plebes take it the last week of Plebe Summer and that counts for first semester. The rest of the Brigade will take it a few weeks after they come back each semester. If they are sick or broken, they administer make up exams usually weekly. A mid will just take them after they are recovered. If it’s something big like an ACL repair, they would get a waiver for a semester or so. Eventually they get healthy and take it.
 
Also, at the risk of coming off sexist, I think (in general) it is easier for fathers to let their sons take flight than it is for mothers (or for fathers and daughters) (this is just my observation and not applicable to specific cases).

I was going to say that too. Even though it may be sexist, I think it is true, in general. My 15 yr old DS went off to a NJROTC camp in Georgia this summer for a week. It was very strenous with something like 15 miles a day of running. Several kids, including my DS, ran until they were literally puking. It didn't bother me at all. I knew the Senior Chiefs would take care of the kids. But my DW was DYING. DS didn't mind it either. He loved being part of a tough group of kids. If I had a DD, I think I would have been more concerned. But hey, some young ladies are tougher than the boys. It was the first of several tough camps DS will do before he leaves for college one day. Hopefully, it will get him somewhat prepared to leave home. He is ready to leave now. Not every kid is the same.
.
Our daughter said some kids were sent home from the Area 5 NJROTC Leadership week at Camp Pendleton VA last summer .... She said they couldn’t handle it physically. I don’t worry about her going to NAPS/USNA.
.
I will miss gigging with her .... her on the piano and me on the guitar. My wife could count on her to cover for her at church on the piano when she wanted to take a Sunday off .... no breaks for her now. Oh well.
.
I’ll miss all this about her not being here. But I got a lot of unfinished projects to keep me busy.
.

I'm far from being a perfect parent, but one thing we got right was raising independent, self-sufficient kids. Our 17 and 20 Mids complained occasionally, particularly during PY, but they were venting. They never expected us to get involved. The only time I tried to help was the first time our 17 traveled through DCA instead of BWI. I researched transportation while he was in the air. By the time I finally got him on the phone, he was half way back to the Academy taking the exact method of transportation I had found. I have never gotten involved again.

You can’t call the principal or the Dean at USNA. One of ours was royally screwed in a class, and I don’t think it would have stood at any other school. None of us said anything. Life lesson learned. Move on.

I never make fun of the parent questions on FB, but tons of them are ridiculous. Land the damn helicopters. Your kid is in the Navy now. Way past time for him or her to make their own way.

As for conditioning, it is getting worse. We are raising a fat and unhealthy group of kids, and more of them show up to USNA all the time. Ours went there in great shape, and that made all the difference in the world. They have seen others whose bodies tell their minds, “We can’t do this. This sucks. How bout we get chits or get the hell out of here.” Then, their minds enter a downward spiral. Hell, one kid showed up to I-Day with a body fat % so high that the kid was sent home immediately. (Had to be some questionable stuff in that application process. Enormously high number!)

The only advice I give Plebes to be: get in the best shape of your life. Then, take it as it comes, and revel in the funny stuff. Our Mids don’t want to repeat PS, but they handled it and occasionally look back on it with pretty good thoughts.

Finally, I told both Mids: Remember, the only real difference between you and them is that they know what comes next. Once you do as well, it all slows down and becomes much easier.
This is very disappointing to hear. These Plebes have the opportunity of a lifetime and a large number of them don’t even have the discipline to show up in shape? 56% fail the PRT on Day 3? Unacceptable. Hate to say this, but as a taxpayer and former Naval Officer it makes you question the integrity of these individuals and the CFA they reported on their application.

For every one of these kids, there’s 10 more at home sitting on TWEs (including my DS: 1560 SAT, 4.0 unweighted, #1 in class, could have PT’d the balls off a Marine Corp D.I. on 6/27) that would have given anything to receive an Appointment, the least of which being to report with enough basic physical prowess to pass a PRT.

Sour grapes? Guilty.

Inexcusable and completely lacking integrity on the part of those unfit Plebes? 100%.
 
I wouldn’t put too much stock in a report from 2003. USNA does not publish their WCS, weights, scoring. This is a decade and a half old.
It's a formal report to Congress via US GAO. You think USNA did not actually give the US General Accounting Office their numbers for it? And/or things could have only ramped *up* in the last 15 years? Huh?

I have no horse in the race (I only found that reporting looking for numbers for figuring out 529s and taxes); I just found it interesting that that was their reported standards to the taxpayers.
 
I do not think USNA provided false data. I think it’s 15 years old and they tweak items as they evaluate data on what is working and not working.
 
[/QUOTE]This is very disappointing to hear. These Plebes have the opportunity of a lifetime and a large number of them don’t even have the discipline to show up in shape? 56% fail the PRT on Day 3? Unacceptable. .[/QUOTE]

DD failed the first test until the detailers explained what was expected in the sit ups. She went from not passing to maxing the second test. Some of that percentage may be due to techniques not being 100% correct. During pushups if you re-adjust your position you are done. A lot of it is determined by who's counting. I hear many boys think they've maxed out pull ups only to have 1/3 to 1/2 not count. Just something to think about.
 
DD failed the first test until the detailers explained what was expected in the sit ups. She went from not passing to maxing the second test. Some of that percentage may be due to techniques not being 100% correct. During pushups if you re-adjust your position you are done. A lot of it is determined by who's counting. I hear many boys think they've maxed out pull ups only to have 1/3 to 1/2 not count. Just something to think about.
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I thought of this same situation. Don’t follow technique or fall out of technique ... fail. Rules are rules. In most of these cases, it has nothing to do with being physically fit.

They are teaching them to fall in line everywhere.
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So reading this has me encouraged. (In a weird way) I run twice a day (morning and late afternoon) and its hot, really hot and my clothes are soaked. I also work landscaping for a horse stable and a few neighborhood clients and its hot and dirty and really muggy. (And I get rained on a lot too.) Then I go to the gym. On days off I go to the gym twice and I swim as much as I can (when the pool isn't full of little kids.) I wonder if I am not doing enough sometimes. I actually printed a response someone made from a different thread about what to do while you wait on DODMERB and interview schedules (you run, and then you run some more) and I have looked at that print tacked on my bathroom mirror pretty much every day when I drag to shower. My parents said "here is a folder to keep your paperwork together, good luck...." and they have left it to me to put my package together. BGO is scheduled and coming up soon and I hope I am doing enough. Don't worry about your kids - if we can figure it out at this point to know what we want to do with our life, we can figure the rest out.
 
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