Possible Increase to Military Service Obligation

B

brewer90

5-Year Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2016
Messages
68
From a recent article in the Military Times:

"Senators want to look at the service obligations that graduates of U.S. military academies incur for the first time in more than 20 years.

The Senate Armed Services Committee wrote in the latest defense bill that the current eight-year service obligation for academy graduates hasn’t changed since 1996.

'Since that time, the real cost per graduate has increased by nearly 20 percent,' the committee wrote."
​
No changes in the near future planned, as each military department are to submit reports by April, 2020, and then the gears of Washington, DC will need to churn for a while before any action is recommended (much less taken...)

But I'm interested: for those considering applying to the Services Academies, how would expanding the service requirement beyond the typical 5 years active duty, remaining years on reserve impact your decision to apply?
  • Doesn't change a thing.
  • Depends on how much time is added.
  • Game changer. Probably wouldn't apply.
​
 
Doesn't change a thing for me. (Wannabe '25). I'm signing up for an SA for the main point to serve, it doesn't change a fact if I have to stay longer or not. If I make it into USNA, I probably would just stay in the Navy as my career so it doesn't make a big difference to me.
 
seb.g.b said:
Doesn't change a thing for me. (Wannabe '25). I'm signing up for an SA for the main point to serve, it doesn't change a fact if I have to stay longer or not. If I make it into USNA, I probably would just stay in the Navy as my career so it doesn't make a big difference to me.
Click to expand...
Doesn’t change a thing for me.
 
I find this so incredibly ironic. We have many Pres candidates running on free college everyone. Yet, we are going to extend the service obligation, but give everyone else free college? Ultimately, I don't think this impacts the SA's in a significant way, but extremely ironic.
 
And don’t forget, even currently it’s not always just five years, depends on the branch. Our son will be serving nine years (six years for Cyber, two years for grad school, and a one year payback for grad school); the Army will not be releasing him until he’s 31. He couldn’t five-and-dive if he wanted to.
 
This has been a while coming and was also noted as part of an interview with retiring USNA Sup. Admiral Carter in the Capital Gazette.

With more than three times the cost of investment and virtually the same retention rate as other commissioning sources, the question that will be posed is what are we getting for our money and I suspect that they'll take a deep dive.
 
Since these are federal institutions I recognize how ridiculous this sounds but... perhaps they should focus on cost containment rather than increasing service obligations as a means of improving ROI.

There is so much waste built into government spending that I have to believe the Academies could find a way of appropriately cutting costs if necessary. I am encouraged by the work of Mitch Daniels at Purdue and would love to see the same fiscal toughness and ingenuity applied to the academies if these Senators want to continue their investigation.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/susana...nt-higher-ed-purists-are-aghast/#cbfd9a76eeec

OK. I am taking off the rose colored glasses and returning to normal operating mode...
 
.
Compare the 2019-2020 In-State and Out-of-State cost for an Engineering student at UVA (38,210 vs. 73,930). Virginia tax payers are subsidizing nearly half the cost of in-state students.

I only chose UVA for comparison because it is a historic institution with a lot of old buildings to maintain, not unlike USNA and West Point.

What is the real cost above $73,930 per year per student to keep UVA looking and operating like UVA? I think it is significantly higher than these reported numbers.
.
 
Last edited:
Wouldn't change anything for me. If I get into USNA, I will most likely pursue a career beyond the required 5 years in the Navy.
 
USMCGrunt said:
Since these are federal institutions I recognize how ridiculous this sounds but... perhaps they should focus on cost containment rather than increasing service obligations as a means of improving ROI.

There is so much waste built into government spending that I have to believe the Academies could find a way of appropriately cutting costs if necessary. I am encouraged by the work of Mitch Daniels at Purdue and would love to see the same fiscal toughness and ingenuity applied to the academies if these Senators want to continue their investigation.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/susana...nt-higher-ed-purists-are-aghast/#cbfd9a76eeec

OK. I am taking off the rose colored glasses and returning to normal operating mode...
Click to expand...
You are probably right that someone like Daniels could deliver the same product at lower cost.

Unfortunately, the way cost containment works in government leads to disappointing results obtained largely on the backs of cadets/midshipmen and parents:
  • Leaky ceilings at USNA
  • Black mold at USMA
  • Overcrowded barracks
  • Mess Halls/laundry outsourced to private contractors = increased expense for take out food and paying to do own laundry
  • Pay once set at 1/2 base pay of O-1 now set at 1/3 = more $$$ support from parents
I'm all for efficiency and fairness, but it seems wrong to me that politicians target the military while scrambling to provide free stuff to people with no skin in the game.
 
No disagreement from me @jl123. I came into the military under the Carter years and saw firsthand how cost cutting affected the military. To be fair, there is waste built into the entire system and as Congress cuts military funding every other decision point in the process protects some special interest/project. Believe me, it affects the grunt in the field. The government's bidding system is a real problem too. I have been issued and worn boots and other gear that were manufactured by the lowest bidder. :(

I am reminded of this great poster from https://despair.com/

governmentdemotivator_1024x1024.jpeg
 
USMCGrunt said:
No disagreement from me @jl123. I came into the military under the Carter years and saw firsthand how cost cutting affected the military. To be fair, there is waste built into the entire system and as Congress cuts military funding every other decision point in the process protects some special interest/project. Believe me, it affects the grunt in the field. The government's bidding system is a real problem too. I have been issued and worn boots and other gear that were manufactured by the lowest bidder. :(

I am reminded of this great poster from https://despair.com/

governmentdemotivator_1024x1024.jpeg
Click to expand...
That is the best poster I've seen. I'm still laughing.
 
"Senators want to look at the service obligations that graduates of U.S. military academies incur for the first time in more than 20 years. The Senate Armed Services Committee wrote in the latest defense bill that the current eight-year service obligation for academy graduates hasn’t changed since 1996. 'Since that time, the real cost per graduate has increased by nearly 20 percent,' the committee wrote."

Funny how they assume the cost of a graduate has increased with inflation, but the value of a year of service has not.
 
Adding the additional years will not do much since once they graduate they are property of the respective services personnel system and career tempo. This career tempo does not necessarily fit neatly into a 5 or 6 year package. When I commissioned, our first junior officer assignment typically lasted 3 years after initial service schooling that would last anywhere from a few months to a year. After that assignment the next step was advanced service school. Now sometimes if the officer indicated that they were not going to serve beyond the initial five year commitment, the service would release the officer because there was no point in sending the officer to more schooling just to have the officer resign before reporting to the next assignment.

Another issue is that the academy's are a victim of their own success as their reputations among corporate America is really high at this time. Go to a Service Academy Career Conference one day and you will see the companies line up to hire Junior Military Officers from the academies. There is a strong pull to leave as soon as possible as most companies are looking for young JMOs to start at the bottom of their company leadership ladder.

Another issue is the Post 9-11 GI Bill. It use to be that the service could entice you to stay with the offer of free graduate school. Now the Post 9-11 GI can easily pay for an MBA or a Law degree with a stipend. Big name graduate schools (i.e. Harvard, MIT, UVA, UPenn, Michigan) typically look favorably at accepting service academy graduates because the schools are rigorous and the graduates were great students to before they entered the academy. Also, they are confident the tuition will be paid thanks to the GI Bill.

The exploding price of college tuition may be another issue. Currently, unless you are an elite student (Perfect GPA, Perfect ACT/SAT) or an elite athlete, the only full ride scholarships available to middle class students are the service academies. Even ROTC scholarships still require the student fit some of the exploding college costs. So the candidate may not be as committed to the military start with.

Unfortunately I offer no solutions, but this is what I have been seeing as a service academy graduate, a cadet father, and retired military officer currently employed by a large multi-national company.
 
THParent said:
Devil Doc said:
A terrible dichotomy is what those face who must fight for needed resources but show restraint and prudence in using them.
Click to expand...

Dichotomy? That is a serious two-dollar word there, Senior. Clearly, you have a diet lacking in crayons.
Click to expand...
I blame it on being off for the summer these past few days. Not being with other people’s kids has apparently cleared my mind. I’m wearing a shirt that reads Oxford, (comma), EST. 1893 for goodness sake. I will say though that being with my son has made me step up my game. As I’ve written on PM, he has finally gotten a B billet but it ain’t no regular B billet. He is at 29 Palms conducting exercises where they blow up stuff. He has studied the combat center’s protocol and has a plan in place to move forward. He changed call signs from Machete 6 to Coyote 13. Both are cool but different. The heat there will melt skin. I did a CAX, now ITX, 23 years ago. One-Three drove me up to Camp Wilson. The terrain and heat hasn’t changed. I have changed. I’m now sitting in front of a fan with the AC running full blast.
 
davejean90 said:
Another issue is the Post 9-11 GI Bill. It use to be that the service could entice you to stay with the offer of free graduate school. Now the Post 9-11 GI can easily pay for an MBA or a Law degree with a stipend. Big name graduate schools (i.e. Harvard, MIT, UVA, UPenn, Michigan) typically look favorably at accepting service academy graduates because the schools are rigorous and the graduates were great students to before they entered the academy. Also, they are confident the tuition will be paid thanks to the GI Bill.
Click to expand...

When Service Academy grads finish their military obligation, they are entitled to the GI bill to help fund grad school? I'm not sure if I was reading that correctly...If they are, that is something I wasn't aware of.
 
caseman said:
davejean90 said:
Another issue is the Post 9-11 GI Bill. It use to be that the service could entice you to stay with the offer of free graduate school. Now the Post 9-11 GI can easily pay for an MBA or a Law degree with a stipend. Big name graduate schools (i.e. Harvard, MIT, UVA, UPenn, Michigan) typically look favorably at accepting service academy graduates because the schools are rigorous and the graduates were great students to before they entered the academy. Also, they are confident the tuition will be paid thanks to the GI Bill.
Click to expand...

When Service Academy grads finish their military obligation, they are entitled to the GI bill to help fund grad school? I'm not sure if I was reading that correctly...If they are, that is something I wasn't aware of.
Click to expand...
They are entitled to Post 9-11 GI Bill benefits. I have known several officers who have taken advantage.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top