Possible Increase to Military Service Obligation

For an academy grad to get 100% GI Bill benefit they must serve 36 months after satisfying service obligation. Not a bad deal though to stay an extra 90 days and get 40% benefit.


From VA website: Time spent satisfying the ROTC/Service Academy active duty obligation does not count toward the active duty service necessary to qualify for the benefits.

Member Serves/ % of Maximum Benefit Payable

At least 36 months/ 100%

At least 30 continuous days on active duty
and discharged due to service-connected disability / 100%

At least 30 months, but less than 36 months/ 90%

At least 24 months, but less than 30 months/ 80%

At least 18 months, but less than 24 months/ 70%

At least 12 months, but less than 18 months/ 60%

At least 06 months, but less than 12 months/ 50%

At least 90 days, but less than 06 months/ 40%
 
Another issue is the Post 9-11 GI Bill. It use to be that the service could entice you to stay with the offer of free graduate school. Now the Post 9-11 GI can easily pay for an MBA or a Law degree with a stipend. Big name graduate schools (i.e. Harvard, MIT, UVA, UPenn, Michigan) typically look favorably at accepting service academy graduates because the schools are rigorous and the graduates were great students to before they entered the academy. Also, they are confident the tuition will be paid thanks to the GI Bill.

When Service Academy grads finish their military obligation, they are entitled to the GI bill to help fund grad school? I'm not sure if I was reading that correctly...If they are, that is something I wasn't aware of.
I know NROTC officers are not entitled to GI Bill benefits after completing their obligation. Their obligated service was to "Pay off" their initial scholarship. They need to serve another number of ears (I think three) to accumulate GI Bill benefits. I would think the same logic applies to a service academy grad.

EDIT: Cross posted with jl123
 
I always those it was weird that they only have to serve five years. My son is in AF UPT which means he has to serve 10 years after he receives his wings. The time at UPT (one year) and the time before UPT (can be 1 month to 1 year) doesnt count. That means at minimum, an Air Force pilot is required to be in the Air Force for minimum 11 years. My son has no problem with that, but someone attending USAFA doenst have to do that unless of course he becomes a pilot
 
Definitely not the most cost effective, but arguably the most effective at producing a core group of junior officers unaffected by the potential vagaries of civilian universities.
 
For an academy grad to get 100% GI Bill benefit they must serve 36 months after satisfying service obligation. Not a bad deal though to stay an extra 90 days and get 40% benefit.


From VA website: Time spent satisfying the ROTC/Service Academy active duty obligation does not count toward the active duty service necessary to qualify for the benefits.

Member Serves/ % of Maximum Benefit Payable

At least 36 months/ 100%

At least 30 continuous days on active duty
and discharged due to service-connected disability / 100%

At least 30 months, but less than 36 months/ 90%

At least 24 months, but less than 30 months/ 80%

At least 18 months, but less than 24 months/ 70%

At least 12 months, but less than 18 months/ 60%

At least 06 months, but less than 12 months/ 50%

At least 90 days, but less than 06 months/ 40%

I would appreciate the web address where you got the above info. I have been doing VA benefits as a Veterans Service Officer for 10 years and have never heard anything similar to the above. If I am missing something I would greatly appreciate being able to correct my information. As far as VA is concerned you need 90 days active duty after 9-11 2001 with certain limits or conditions but I have never been told that Active Duty in completion of "requirements" does not count. Please see the actual VA Post 9-11 GI Bill website below. For Veterans, the above chart is correct as far as benefits available, but I cannot find where obligated service is not counted, only that the above periods are correct as to amount of benefits paid for active duty served.

https://www.benefits.va.gov/gibill/post911_gibill.asp
 
I always those it was weird that they only have to serve five years. My son is in AF UPT which means he has to serve 10 years after he receives his wings. The time at UPT (one year) and the time before UPT (can be 1 month to 1 year) doesnt count. That means at minimum, an Air Force pilot is required to be in the Air Force for minimum 11 years. My son has no problem with that, but someone attending USAFA doenst have to do that unless of course he becomes a pilot
Navy requires an additional service obligation for pilots. Not sure if it works out to 10 years but I'm confident it's close. Can't speak to Army.
 
I would appreciate the web address where you got the above info. I have been doing VA benefits as a Veterans Service Officer for 10 years and have never heard anything similar to the above. If I am missing something I would greatly appreciate being able to correct my information. As far as VA is concerned you need 90 days active duty after 9-11 2001 with certain limits or conditions but I have never been told that Active Duty in completion of "requirements" does not count. Please see the actual VA Post 9-11 GI Bill website below. For Veterans, the above chart is correct as far as benefits available, but I cannot find where obligated service is not counted, only that the above periods are correct as to amount of benefits paid for active duty served.

https://www.benefits.va.gov/gibill/post911_gibill.asp
It was in the question/answer section of the VA website. I found it when I googled "GI Bill service academy graduates".

Here is the link: https://gibill.custhelp.va.gov/app/...emy-or-had-an-rotc-scholarship-can-i-still-be
 
The exploding price of college tuition may be another issue. Currently, unless you are an elite student (Perfect GPA, Perfect ACT/SAT) or an elite athlete, the only full ride scholarships available to middle class students are the service academies. Even ROTC scholarships still require the student fit some of the exploding college costs. So the candidate may not be as committed to the military start with.

This is a really huge point raised in an excellent post.. In times of insane college costs, an uncertain job market and a pretty wide-spread desire to serve their communities, this whole SA concept becomes a lot more attractive to kids who might not otherwise ever consider the military life. These are very good schools, which in a way is a draw-back to identifying the candidates who are most interested in a career vs just getting a great education for free and working for a few years to pay it off (their thoughts, not everyone's.)

If the purpose of the academies is simply producing a herd of ensigns then it can be done cheaper. If it is to produce career officers it might need to be changed to up the retention percentages. If it is to get a mix of hardcore military and more civilian-minded folks into the officer corps then it might be OK. If it is to produce the best possible candidates for as long as they choose to stay it might be OK. There are nuances to the mission to be teased out, but there are also multiple paths to officerhood that address various parts of the puzzle. Costs and efficiency are important, as are retention and including a range of types of people in the ranks of our junior officers. It's a deceptively complex issue and worthy of a very deep dive.
 
Considering the vast surplus of qualified candidates there is every year, the academies certainly have the leverage to demand a lengthier service commitment. I think it makes sense to have the costliest commissioning path require more time.

Any ideas as to why the cost of the Academies has risen so much faster than inflation? I was surprised by that. I expected them to differ from the general trend since they don’t charge students anything.
 
Any ideas as to why the cost of the Academies has risen so much faster than inflation?

Ask one of the Deans at any Big State U or Ivy why the price of tuition has risen faster than inflation?

Ask an Opthamologist why the cost of cataract surgery has risen over the years while the price of Lasik has dropped?

When there is a deep pocketed lender or payer other than the consumer buying the product prices tend to rise faster than inflation.
 
My S is leaving after 5 years and 4 months. I never had the "why" discussion with him, but something turned him around from making it a 20 year career. Getting close to the end and looking at civilian jobs and/or graduate school.
 
Any ideas as to why the cost of the Academies has risen so much faster than inflation?

Ask one of the Deans at any Big State U or Ivy why the price of tuition has risen faster than inflation?

Ask an Opthamologist why the cost of cataract surgery has risen over the years while the price of Lasik has dropped?

When there is a deep pocketed lender or payer other than the consumer buying the product prices tend to rise faster than inflation.

Yes...As I mentioned, the academies are different. Students aren’t the buyer at a service academy, the US government is. You’re conflating tuition prices with the cost of operating the institution.
 
Students aren’t the buyer at a service academy, the US government is. You’re conflating tuition prices with the cost of operating the institution.

I'm conflating nothing. The cost of operation is a direct result of how much money the institution brings in from tuition, endowments, state/federal aid to the institution directly or to the student.The cadets/mids don't pay, so they and their parents don't care unless they have to pay back. The House and Senate Armed Services Committee members spend the money. They don't care. Their pockets are deep and they get box seat to the Army Navy game.

Do you not see a connection between rising tuition costs and still exploding student debt which is guaranteed by the government?

Believe me. I wonder how my DS is going to handle being in the real world at some point after living in the second largest socialist economy on the planet.
 
Your daughter will be just fine. After dealing with the demands imposed by the service academies, the "real world" will be a walk in the park.
There is a reason that SA graduates are among the most highly sought-after individuals for "real-world" positions.
If your daughter chooses to bail out after 2 years, she will have quite a bit of transferrable credits and will have the additional benefits of the discipline she learned at the SA.
"Real" college will be a cakewalk.
My DD entered the Academy with effectively 2 years of University curriculum already earned (between AP scores and concurrent enrollment credits).
I don't expect that she will bail out before her 2C year, but if she does, she will be in a ridiculously advantaged situation compared to her HS classmates.
I won't address your assertion concerning the "second largest socialist economy", since it is purely inflammatory and presented without foundation.
What I will say is that she will haved EARNED her right to choose her path at that point. The same way that she EARNED her appointment to USNA in the first place.
As far as the increased service requirement is concerned, it would likely have made absolutely no difference to her. She wanted to serve her country. The SA simply connected the dots between her desire to serve and her ability to obtain a world-class education. I don't believe that the majority of SA applicants are seeking a free ride. I believe that they want to engage in an environment in which their cadre is committed in a communal sense to the same dedication to excellence and integrity that motivates them individually.
 
Last edited:
The cost of operation is a direct result of how much money the institution brings in from tuition, endowments, state/federal aid to the institution directly or to the student.The cadets/mids don't pay, so they and their parents don't care unless they have to pay back. The House and Senate Armed Services Committee members spend the money. They don't care. Their pockets are deep and they get box seat to the Army Navy game.
Do you not see a connection between rising tuition costs and still exploding student debt which is guaranteed by the government?

I certainly am not an expert in the government budgeting process, but your view of the Naval Academy operating budget is pretty cynical. From my perspective, the USNA Operating Budget is pretty lean, to the extent that Admissions doesn't have the funding necessary to produce the brochures and marketing materials that BGO's need in the field. (And yes, I recognize some will argue that there is no need for marketing when we already have more qualified candidates than we can appoint, but there are many parts of the country that are either underrepresented or simply not attracting the best candidates --there is a continuing effort to get the best students from around the country).

Budgets are a function of priorities, and obviously a very political process. Each operating entity has a budget, and funds are appropriated to pay costs. Funding of USNA is affected by the overall military budget, including procurement of ships, aircraft, equipment etc. and operations. Bottom line, the pockets aren't as deep as you think, and a lot of resources are going to the development and procurement of weapons systems.

With respect to your concerns about DS being ready for the real world -- I have no idea what his service assignment is, or will be , but you be assured that an operating fleet entity has the same operating expense concerns and issues that private business does. The source of the money is different, but every operational commander is expected to fulfill their mission within the allocated budget. I can remember the pressure of getting required training and operations done, within the allotted flight hour and expendables (sonobuoy) budget.
 
The cost of operation is a direct result of how much money the institution brings in from tuition, endowments, state/federal aid to the institution directly or to the student.The cadets/mids don't pay, so they and their parents don't care unless they have to pay back. The House and Senate Armed Services Committee members spend the money. They don't care. Their pockets are deep and they get box seat to the Army Navy game.
Do you not see a connection between rising tuition costs and still exploding student debt which is guaranteed by the government?

I certainly am not an expert in the government budgeting process, but your view of the Naval Academy operating budget is pretty cynical. From my perspective, the USNA Operating Budget is pretty lean, to the extent that Admissions doesn't have the funding necessary to produce the brochures and marketing materials that BGO's need in the field. (And yes, I recognize some will argue that there is no need for marketing when we already have more qualified candidates than we can appoint, but there are many parts of the country that are either underrepresented or simply not attracting the best candidates --there is a continuing effort to get the best students from around the country).

Budgets are a function of priorities, and obviously a very political process. Each operating entity has a budget, and funds are appropriated to pay costs. Funding of USNA is affected by the overall military budget, including procurement of ships, aircraft, equipment etc. and operations. Bottom line, the pockets aren't as deep as you think, and a lot of resources are going to the development and procurement of weapons systems.

With respect to your concerns about DS being ready for the real world -- I have no idea what his service assignment is, or will be , but you be assured that an operating fleet entity has the same operating expense concerns and issues that private business does. The source of the money is different, but every operational commander is expected to fulfill their mission within the allocated budget. I can remember the pressure of getting required training and operations done, within the allotted flight hour and expendables (sonobuoy) budget.
.
@Old Navy BGO. Thank you for this post. .... I don't think it matters where you are. Everywhere you go, every year that passes, the politics and mood may change ... but budgets always get leaner, and the bar always gets higher .... and I work for a giant financial firm. No different.
.
 
Last edited:
@Kierkegaard and @Old Navy BGO ,

At my age, I tend to be a little cynical in my outlook and more than a little flip in my comments. The socialist ecomony crack refers to the DOD in general and harkens back to political back and forth 30 years ago.

I believe in the SA's. The diversification of commissioning sources is vital and that cost differentials between them are almost beside the point. The system will suss out the qualified officers to progress. My DS (son) commissioned out of AROTC in May 2015. He has never once commented about the source of another officer's commission.

To suggest that the DOD is any different from any other Gov't bureaucracy in terms of efficiency is naive. The layers of bureaucracy and redundancy are there. By the time budgeting gets down to the lower levels of upper management levels one's hands are tied and there is not much room to institute structural changes. It starts at the top and to believe that the DOD or the SA's receive more scrutiny than other government functions is naive in the extreme. Members of Congress want their pictures taken next to members of the military and they lobby for weapons programs and bases that benefit their districts even the Military doesn't want them.

With regard to higher education or health care or anything else, if the user isn't paying out of his/her own pocket, but rather borrowing, receiving loans or grants, they will be less discriminating in terms of price.

@Dr. Strange Love, I don't think your giant financial firm has a health insurance plan which would provide 100% coverage of elective PRK surgery for a three year employee along with room and board for him and his mother one block from the hospital--at no cost--meals included and no charge against vacation. My 1LT, employed by the US Army, does have such coverage. That is why I constantly remind him that the real world is very different from the US Military. His employee benefits are very close to those proposed by AOC and the entire Democratic field of Presidential candidates. When he told us about his upcoming promotion to Captain, I told him how proud DW and I were of him. His response was, "Everyone gets promoted...unless you kill someone. By that I mean one of your own." I don't think Chase or Nuveen or Wells Fargo has such standards.
 
Are statistics available that show how long the different commissioning sources stay in?
 
Back
Top