Congressional Nomination Preference

So right now I am still incredibly torn between USMA and USNA. To add to this, while my representative’s nomination application allows me to list my top 3 choices, my senators both only allow for one choice. Their deadlines are all in mid-October, with my CVW being after this. I’ve attending West Point SLE and have had much more exposure to USMA, but USNA still appeals to me greatly. I plan on doing a day visit to USNA, but I doubt that’ll give me the same amount of insight I’ve had on USMA. Would it be smart for me to apply to one senator with USMA as my single choice and the other either USNA? Thanks.

NJcandidate2024 said:

Would it be smart for me to apply to one senator with USMA as my single choice and the other either USNA?

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Just one man's opinion but I don't think that is ever smart. Figure it out. Don't think about the school, think about the job(s) you want after you commission. Research those jobs and make sure there are several you wold be willing to do because you don't always get your first choice for many many reasons.

I've seen folks do it the way you suggest every year and they are often sorry they did. You have time. Figure it out. You can (usually) always update your preference during the interview.

kinnem said:

NJcandidate2024 said:

Would it be smart for me to apply to one senator with USMA as my single choice and the other either USNA?

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Just one man's opinion but I don't think that is ever smart. Figure it out. Don't think about the school, think about the job(s) you want after you commission. Research those jobs and make sure there are several you wold be willing to do because you don't always get your first choice for many many reasons.

I've seen folks do it the way you suggest every year and they are often sorry they did. You have time. Figure it out. You can (usually) always update your preference during the interview.

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Actually, in the case of NJ, the preference can't be adjusted during the interview itself. You can try to explain to the admin staffers before or after the interviews but the panel (s) (each candidate gets two) are not able to change the preference in the report/analysis that they create.

Last year DS changed his preference on his NJ Senatorial nomination application after it was submitted. It was definitely before the interview though.
The staffers kindly reopened his application once it was determined that he was medically disqualified from his top choice.

Yet another example why you should get your DoDmerb portion of your application done as soon as you can.

kinnem said:

NJcandidate2024 said:

Would it be smart for me to apply to one senator with USMA as my single choice and the other either USNA?

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Just one man's opinion but I don't think that is ever smart. Figure it out. Don't think about the school, think about the job(s) you want after you commission. Research those jobs and make sure there are several you wold be willing to do because you don't always get your first choice for many many reasons.

I've seen folks do it the way you suggest every year and they are often sorry they did. You have time. Figure it out. You can (usually) always update your preference during the interview.

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After diving thru the forums, I'm always grateful for the advice you've provided. However I do have a question on this one. After my DS finished his BGO interview, and the BGO was discussing nominations with us as a family this topic came up. His BGO said from his experience our senators (CA) typically nominate from the large cities for USNA (we are very rural) and he said he's not seen one from our region, and would not hurt to ask for nomination to another SA that might not be as competitive in California. Our Senators only nominate to a single SA, and require you to pick only one on their application. USNA is his first choice and will be listed as such to his Congressman, who does nominate to multiple SAs and asks for a rank order of all SAs. Based on your experience, what are the negatives and risks associated with asking the Senators for a nomination to USMMA, and our Congressman for USNA, USMMA, USAFA in that order? Thanks in advance.

For HopefulDad, does your DS want to attend USMMA? If the answer is "yes," then it could be a great option. USMMA is a terrific school. It's not as well known as the "big 3" so not as many apply for noms. Also, the nom system is somewhat different. I BELIEVE (but am NOT sure), that he can apply to any MOC within the state for USMMA, not just his own MOC. That opens up lots of opportunities.

However, if he doesn't really want to apply to -- and attend -- USMMA, then don't do it.

Also, the fact your BGO hasn't seen a nom from your region may only mean there haven't been any super-competitive candidates from your region. In my experience, most Senators try to nominate folks from across the state -- large cities/schools and small cities/schools, private schools, public schools, all geographic regions, etc. CA is a huge state. If the Sen has only one nom (or even 2) in a year, that's a LOT of territory to cover. I'd imagine that many areas of the state don't see noms for years on end.

Finally, has he considered USCGA, which is super-competitive but doesn't require a nom?

For NJCandidate . . . this is a frequent question from candidates in competitive districts/states. One (excellent) approach, as advised above, is to decide now what your true first choice is. And don't look back.

If you feel you can't do that until your CVW, then you need to consider this . . . would you truly be happy at either school? IOW, you open an envelope with one of the school's names inside and you're so thrilled to have the envelope that you don't care what's in it. If so, then you can "split" your nom choices. Conversely, if you'd be disappointed with one of the options, then go with your gut.

The reason is that, more often than not, candidates in your position end up with a nom to their "second" choice. Had it happen quite a few times. And then they whine and ask how to get out of it. But the MOC (and BGO and everyone else) is confused . . . the candidate listed this as his/her first choice and now isn't happy. So why list it as the first choice?

Well . . . some candidates "split their noms" because they want to have as many appointments as possible (for all sorts of reasons). Some do it to game the system, figuring they're more likely to get a nom to a particular SA b/c it's less popular in their area -- but then realize they don't really want to attend that SA. Some do it b/c they really are torn and aren't ready to decide. Welcome to life!

If the OP selects USMA as first choice for all MOCs and can't change that selection once made, not sure he/she should even visit USNA. What would be the point other than possibly to realize he/she made the wrong choice at a time when it can't be changed? If you can make a change with your MOCs, then definitely visit USNA.

Nothing to add to what I and others have previously stated.

usna1985 said:

For HopefulDad, does your DS want to attend USMMA? If the answer is "yes," then it could be a great option. USMMA is a terrific school. It's not as well known as the "big 3" so not as many apply for noms. Also, the nom system is somewhat different. I BELIEVE (but am NOT sure), that he can apply to any MOC within the state for USMMA, not just his own MOC. That opens up lots of opportunities.

However, if he doesn't really want to apply to -- and attend -- USMMA, then don't do it.

Also, the fact your BGO hasn't seen a nom from your region may only mean there haven't been any super-competitive candidates from your region. In my experience, most Senators try to nominate folks from across the state -- large cities/schools and small cities/schools, private schools, public schools, all geographic regions, etc. CA is a huge state. If the Sen has only one nom (or even 2) in a year, that's a LOT of territory to cover. I'd imagine that many areas of the state don't see noms for years on end.

Finally, has he considered USCGA, which is super-competitive but doesn't require a nom?

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Thank you. Great info! He is only applying to SAs he'd like to attend. We took him to visit all of the SAs this summer, and USNA was by far his first choice. He is only applying to those he'd like to attend and serve. We are fully aware how difficult it is to get into a single SA, and although he hits the benchmarks for those the class averages (and exceeds many) of those admitted we know that it boils down now to two factors. First whether he receives a nomination, and second how he fits the profile that the admission board is trying to create in the '24 class.

Of the SAs he want to attend his rank order preference is 1) USNA, 2) USMMA, and keeps going back and forth between USAFA and USCGA as 3rd/4th. He's not applying to USMA. He based that rank order on the career options associated with that service after graduation first, and academy lifestyle at that SA second. He has completed his app for USNA. He should finish the others in the next few weeks. If he only gets into one, he'd be thrilled and to go to where we has accepted. That is his plan A. He's applying to all nomination sources, and already has received a presidential to USNA and USAFA as I'm retired military. He is also qualified by DoDMERB.

Plan B is NROTC and AFROTC and he's working on those scholarship apps. He has picked a slate of civilian schools that have both Navy and AF ROTC units. His slate include far-reach schools, mid range, and safety schools and that application process is also underway. Plan C is non-scholarship to that same slate of schools.

His goal is to be fully complete by October.

I'm proud of all his work, as I'm sure all parents are of their kids who make this decision to serve. Thanks again for all those who contribute on this forum; as it helps in this long journey. We began this process when he came to us in April of this past year and said "Mom (she's always first in his sentences) and Dad I want to go to an Academy and serve in the military". I'm amazed how much work the application is, and have a feeling that many self-eliminate by not completing all the steps required just to complete the application process.

Best of luck to all.

Hi! First time post here. DS recently received a Letter of Encouragement from USMA. He has the overnight scheduled for the week of Thanksgiving. Would move the visit up, but traveling from California and it is the only time that will work. He attended USNA CVW and Summer Seminar and has loved USNA, and has been USNA all the way until recently. He is wondering/researching whether Army has more opportunity for Cyber-operations/Cybersecurity jobs. Issue is that nomination packets are due next week. For nom packets already submitted, he selected USNA as #1 for one Senator, and ranked USNA #1 and USMA #2 for MOC; he is sending out his second senator nom packet tomorrow and is wondering if he should request USMA as his #1. Would love to hear opinions regarding requesting USMA as #1 for one of the two senators. Thanks in advance!

Great quote from Game of Thrones: "If I look back, I am lost"
Basically figure out your choices and get them in order so that you will not have regrets later on. Because having regrets down the line (esp. for something like SAs which can totally change your life) is a situation I personally don't want to get into

Florida is also a "one SA per applicant" state. Back in the day, this really bothered me. But with experience, I've amended my philosophy a bit... unlike normal colleges, Service Academies are not, by their very nature, interchangeable parts. Navy is not Army is not Air Force is not Coast Guard. Unfortunately, 17-year-olds aren't always equipped to understand the difference. Which is where parents, mentors, and well-meaning others come in. USNA is not a Plan B for USMA (and vice versa). If a candidate wants to be truly successful (i.e. receive an appointment), they will place all their chips on one SA or the other and let it ride. If they are not selected, the truly motivated candidate will reapply the following year with their Plan B being ROTC scholarship where he/she will strengthen their application, gain valuable life experience, college credits, and reapply to the Academy (once, twice, three times if necessary). Anything less is a waste of time and energy for the candidate, parents, and everyone else. If, however, the candidate gets a taste of ROTC and decides that ROTC is a good fit, that's great. They are on the right path toward commissioning. But... the important part is this... at the end of those four years, they will commission as naval officers (or whatever branch they selected). So then the goal is this... the candidate should do everything in their power to decide which branch of the military appeals to them the most and then, once they're good and sure... focus exclusively on that one Academy. Because at the end of the day, one nomination is all it takes to receive an appointment... however, one nomination is no guarantee of an appointment. I would much rather be the candidate with two, or possibly three nominations.

Be honest with yourself rather than try to game the system. You won’t have any regrets that way. If you’re truly indifferent, then you can provide different #1s. But know that you might run into the same interviewer in two different MOC panels, and may find yourself having to explain the discrepancy.

Frankly, I don’t think there’s anything to be gained by splitting preferences. DD told our MOC that while she’d accept a nomination to any SA — she just wanted to be an officer — USNA was her clear #1 and USMA #2. MOC nominated her for both, but made her principal nominee for USMA. Go figure.

@tycarpen +1 to MidCake. I would add no one knows what field they will enter until 4 years from now and it will be governed, in part, by the needs of the Service. Not everyone gets their first choice. I would recommend selecting the service that has the most jobs you might enjoy if you don't get your first choice, vs which one has more opportunities in one particular field. There will be plenty of Cyber opportunities in each service; which one will have more opportunities 4 years from now is probably a nebulous number.

Thank you for the insight kinnem MidcakePa, and 20avva. I will share your wisdom with my DS. @kinnem good point about the 4 years from now, and not being able to bank on getting first choice. @MidCakePa didn't think about same members on different panels, good point! Not trying to work the system, just trying to be wise. This process is quite a thing to navigate. We are grateful to have this forum!

Good points above. I will add one more factor. At USMMA, you have the choice of any branch of service. It is difficult to guess what the needs of each service will be looking 4 years into the future. Your crystal ball is much more likely to be accurate looking 6 months into the future than four+ years into the future. Good luck!

Norfolk63 said:

Florida is also a "one SA per applicant" state. Back in the day, this really bothered me. But with experience, I've amended my philosophy a bit... unlike normal colleges, Service Academies are not, by their very nature, interchangeable parts. Navy is not Army is not Air Force is not Coast Guard. Unfortunately, 17-year-olds aren't always equipped to understand the difference. Which is where parents, mentors, and well-meaning others come in. USNA is not a Plan B for USMA (and vice versa). If a candidate wants to be truly successful (i.e. receive an appointment), they will place all their chips on one SA or the other and let it ride. If they are not selected, the truly motivated candidate will reapply the following year with their Plan B being ROTC scholarship where he/she will strengthen their application, gain valuable life experience, college credits, and reapply to the Academy (once, twice, three times if necessary). Anything less is a waste of time and energy for the candidate, parents, and everyone else. If, however, the candidate gets a taste of ROTC and decides that ROTC is a good fit, that's great. They are on the right path toward commissioning. But... the important part is this... at the end of those four years, they will commission as naval officers (or whatever branch they selected). So then the goal is this... the candidate should do everything in their power to decide which branch of the military appeals to them the most and then, once they're good and sure... focus exclusively on that one Academy. Because at the end of the day, one nomination is all it takes to receive an appointment... however, one nomination is no guarantee of an appointment. I would much rather be the candidate with two, or possibly three nominations.

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@Norfolk63 This resonates so much, thank you. It's interesting because the encouragement DS is getting is "apply to all service academies" and hopefully one will work out. I think that is what is causing so much confusion. There is also talk about cross-commissioning, but that seems unrealistic and probably a pretty tough thing to do. Thank you for your thoughtful response. It helps so much!

Norfolk63 said:

But with experience, I've amended my philosophy a bit... unlike normal colleges, Service Academies are not, by their very nature, interchangeable parts. Navy is not Army is not Air Force is not Coast Guard. Unfortunately, 17-year-olds aren't always equipped to understand the difference. Which is where parents, mentors, and well-meaning others come in. USNA is not a Plan B for USMA (and vice versa). If a candidate wants to be truly successful (i.e. receive an appointment), they will place all their chips on one SA or the other and let it ride.

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While I understand this rationale, I would also suggest that 17-18 years are very adaptable. If the objective is to serve as a Military officer (as opposed to specific service), then one service academy can very well be a Plan B for another. When I was 17, Air Force Academy was my first choice, because that was really all I knew (through Civil Air Patrol). USNA was an afterthought, and it wasn't until I met with my BGO that I recognized the advantages of Navy (the wide variety of "Line" service selections if my eyes went bad and I couldn't be a pilot being the most memorable (I still use that story with my candidates), and it wasn't until I did part of my NAV training at an Air Force Base that I truly recognized the difference between the culture of the Navy and Air Force. I was disappointed when I didn't get into USAFA , but USNA offered me NAPS, and I never looked back or even thought about USAFA again.

tycarpen said:

@Norfolk63 This resonates so much, thank you. It's interesting because the encouragement DS is getting is "apply to all service academies" and hopefully one will work out. I think that is what is causing so much confusion. There is also talk about cross-commissioning, but that seems unrealistic and probably a pretty tough thing to do. Thank you for your thoughtful response. It helps so much!

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I'm very glad to be of service. As a BGO I see candidates who apply to all the academies and all ROTC scholarships experience a high rate of burn out.

Old Navy BGO said:

While I understand this rationale, I would also suggest that 17-18 years are very adaptable. If the objective is to serve as a Military officer (as opposed to specific service), then one service academy can very well be a Plan B for another. When I was 17, Air Force Academy was my first choice, because that was really all I knew (through Civil Air Patrol). USNA was an afterthought, and it wasn't until I met with my BGO that I recognized the advantages of Navy (the wide variety of "Line" service selections if my eyes went bad and I couldn't be a pilot being the most memorable (I still use that story with my candidates), and it wasn't until I did part of my NAV training at an Air Force Base that I truly recognized the difference between the culture of the Navy and Air Force. I was disappointed when I didn't get into USAFA , but USNA offered me NAPS, and I never looked back or even thought about USAFA again.

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Thank you for sharing your view point @Old Navy BGO You are so right, 17-18 is such an adaptable age. These posts have been such great conversation starters. DS has decided to keep USNA as #1, USMA as #2, continue with building his NROTC plan...and just keep the faith that he will end up exactly where he is meant to be. Thank you for taking the time for such a thoughtful response. It eased his mind and helped him get refocused. THANK YOU for the support!