Return for the Class of 2023...?

Their histrionics are pretty painful.

My parents forwarded me the FB group parent letter last night and all I could do was wince.

The situation is fluid -- and this group of parents (including some who my parents say are often the most reasonable voices in that group) are seriously over-reacting to comments made during a town hall that none of them were invited to -- let alone likely even listened to directly -- and comments that were clearly prefaced with, "we're exploring all options and nothing is set."

I can tell you this with 100% certainty because I'm close friends and/or company mates with a few of their kids, and through them I know that some of these parents are exponentially more bent out of shape about the current 3/C status then their own 3/C kids are.

Finally, they (and their letter) seem to have a healthy degree of hubris -- I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that the idea of temporary housing (i.e. @ the Navy Lodge, Portable Housing, Housing on a Ship) has never once crossed the minds of the SUPE or DANT?

Everyone needs to take a deep breath
 
I say let the Naval Academy leaders make their plan. Then...follow the plan. It takes a couple years (minimum) for most JO's to learn their jobs at sea. All will be well.
 
20USNA23 said:
Finally, they (and their letter) seem to have a healthy degree of hubris -- I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that the idea of temporary housing (i.e. @ the Navy Lodge, Portable Housing, Housing on a Ship) has never once crossed the minds of the SUPE or DANT?
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Actually, I saw a report that USAFA had issued an RFP for temporary housing this fall.... I would say that nothing is off the table, but housing in an Annapolis Hotel is a lot different than Colorado.

The Supe is a VP aviator, don't recall if he was East or West Coast, but I am going to send him a suggestion that we house the 3rd Class at NA Keflavik (to be honest, I don't know if it is still open) and give them access to the Brass Nut ! (The Brass Nut was the visiting VP squadron bar in Iceland.. lots of good times there!)
 
Old Navy BGO said:
but I am going to send him a suggestion that we house the 3rd Class at NA Keflavik (to be honest, I don't know if it is still open) and give them access to the Brass Nut ! (The Brass Nut was the visiting VP squadron bar in Iceland.. lots of good times there!)
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Oh My!

My staff augment team got fogged in at NAS Kef for a few days on our way to the flagship for a major NATO exercise. We had no duties, no cars and not much to do except for being invited into the Brass Nut. A couple of the resident VP crews had officers who achieved the Mission Commander milestone so needless to say, we were not bored.
My liver says to not go back!
 
I was deployed NAS Kef for 6 months and fondly remember the Brass Nut! We had the USO for Christmas and the troupe was singing carols with us there on Christmas Eve. In those days, there wasn't much to do even if you had a car. There was NOTHING around the base and almost no one spoke any English. It has totally changed.

Sadly, the base closed in the early 2000s. The former BOQ is now a motel. I actually went back a number of years ago. Walked in and was greeted by a young man at the front desk who asked if he could help me. I explained that I'd been stationed there while in the USN 25 years prior and had lived in that very building for 6 months. He looked at me incredibly and said, "I've heard there were people like you, but I've never met one!"

In any event, our quarters were definitely nicer than Mother B and also nicer than the ones we had at Rota. Of course, the USAF refused to stay in either (seriously), even for one night. The quarters were below their standards. Seriously . . .
 
usna1985 said:
In those days, there wasn't much to do even if you had a car. There was NOTHING around the base
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I think I got off the base once during a 6 month deployment; the obligatory Blue Lagoon visit. That doesn't include a couple weekend trips to to Continental Europe, and a divert to Scotland. That said, the Key deployment was professionally rewarding, as a crew holding TACCO (on a JO crew--no LCDRS), we were doing what we trained to do, and I enjoyed it. ( I will admit, November to May kinda sucked...I was there in June once, and it was a lot better).


OldRetSWO said:
A couple of the resident VP crews had officers who achieved the Mission Commander milestone so needless to say, we were not bored.
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LOL - the Brass Nut was "owned" by the deployed VP squadron; part of the turnover on deployment was to "buy" the previous squadrons inventory, and the Alert crew restocked and cleaned the bar every day. (Alert crew did it because they had the duty vehicle-- being the Alert crew on Saturday and Sunday kinda sucked, as Friday and Saturday nights were usually kinda rowdy unless we were flapping. One of the rules was that visiting aircrews (and probably SWOS) didn't pay - it was kind of an honor system, funded by each squadron officer paying 50 cents for each drink, regardless of whether it was a cheap beer from the States or top shelf Scotch. The Bull Ensign had the duty to collect. It was a great system, and a lot of fun was had.
 
I made it clear that I did not want any letter written in 'my behalf.' Write any letter you wish. Just don't associate my name with it. I wish FB didn't exist at times.
 
brewmeist said:
I made it clear that I did not want any letter written in 'my behalf.' Write any letter you wish. Just don't associate my name with it. I wish FB didn't exist at times.
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I completely agree with @brewmeist. Given the fact that the Supe and the Dant have over 50 years of Naval Service between them, and who knows how many people advising them, I think they'll figure it out without parent input. The look on my Mid's face when I showed the letter was truly "meme worthy" and the response was "Really?" followed by "it is what it is."
 
Sorry for the quick diversion to Kef memories. Back to the topic at hand, I can’t in my worst nightmare even imagine my parents ever thinking of, let alone sending, a letter to the Supe or Dant.

I get it’s a different generation, but are these same parents going to call or write the CEO when their kids are working in industry? Oops- guess so.

Have they considered how their kids will ever manage when the parents are gone? Or that the Supe and Dant alone, not including their staffs, have a combined 67 years leading young men’s and women. They don’t need a bunch of parents trying to “help” them.
 
usna1985 said:
Sorry for the quick diversion to Kef memories. Back to the topic at hand, I can’t in my worst nightmare even imagine my parents ever thinking of, let alone sending, a letter to the Supe or Dant.

I get it’s a different generation, but are these same parents going to call or write the CEO when their kids are working in industry? Oops- guess so.

Have they considered how their kids will ever manage when the parents are gone? Or that the Supe and Dant alone, not including their staffs, have a combined 67 years leading young men’s and women. They don’t need a bunch of parents trying to “help” them.
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I have friends in talent acquisition and HR. Indeed some parents do call HR, want to attend interviews, try to be in on the salary negotiation, call managers about performance reviews, etc. For grown people well into their twenties.
Advanced helicopter, lawnmower, snowplow, or perhaps Cobra gunship.
 
.
What is this FB letter? My name better not be on it.

I only had to create the account so I could watch the Oath ceremonies 8 days ago. How do I delete my account?
.
 
usna1985 said:
Sorry for the quick diversion to Kef memories. Back to the topic at hand, I can’t in my worst nightmare even imagine my parents ever thinking of, let alone sending, a letter to the Supe or Dant.

I get it’s a different generation, but are these same parents going to call or write the CEO when their kids are working in industry? Oops- guess so.

Have they considered how their kids will ever manage when the parents are gone? Or that the Supe and Dant alone, not including their staffs, have a combined 67 years leading young men’s and women. They don’t need a bunch of parents trying to “help” them.
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Don't even get me started. I'm a "recent" SA graduate and, while the Parent's Association certainly hovered when I was a cadet, it has definitely gotten worse over time. The migration to FB as a communication platform has certainly aggravated the situation. USCGA does not provide many "official" pictures like the bigger 3 do, but there is a volunteer (the famous Paul Duddy) who spends hours on base taking photos for events throughout the year. I recently saw where current swabs' parents were complaining that "X company hasn't had any photos in 8 days." My God, how did decades of parents ever survive the loss of little Johnny or Suzie without those photos? :rolleyes: One mom posted, "They all look so miserable and sad. Are the ordered to look like that? Why don't they smile?" 😑

While I like to hope that this behavior does not represent the majority of the parents, this specific type of parent and those daring to write a letter to the USNA Supe about their ADULT children need a reminder that this is the military and you're not owed an explanation or say - regardless of whatever power you think you might have. I would be humiliated if my parents even considered attaching their names to a letter like that. If I had the power, I would highly recommend all the SAs review how much interaction or communication is given to parents, including social media. I am all for family/parental support of a Mid/Cadet, and encourage an active Parent's Association, but someone needs to redefine the boundaries a little.

My fiance works in the financial industry, including loans. The number of late 20 year-olds who don't know their own SSNs and just act as the middle-man between the customer reps and their parents during the calls are outstanding.
 
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justdoit19 said:
And 2/C's are signing soon without PROTRAMID. Doesn't seem to bother my guy. He stood on a non-moving boat last year...never got out. his sub thing was canceled. So it's pretty normal to proceed without experience. I asked him if there was a chance for PROTRAMID to run, he said it was officially canceled for him. Oh well... it's 2020! And doesn't seem to bother him!
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My DS was very upset about having to miss PROTRAMID this summer but understands that is the life of uncertainty that he is signing up for. Hopefully they will be able to sign their 2 for 7's as soon as they are all back on The Yard.
 
If my plebe thought I even entertained the idea of reaching out to USNA in any capacity he would likely never visit me again. The day he got on the plane he was off on his journey---not ours. That isn't to say we don't follow along closely or look forward to participating in the big moments (assuming covid dies down and we get to actually attend something at USNA), but it is not our place to meddle, interfere, cast opinions etc or give advice or make requests to the leadership at USNA, ever.
From what I have seen on social media and from the leadership at USNA, they are doing the very best possible job that can be done considering the circumstances. As parents, we entrusted our son to the Yard and in due time, the Fleet. We will just remain his biggest fans and enjoy the ride.
 
I think it sucks they are missing training, being on the yard and on milestone events. The whole world is going through this. They are not alone.

A few things to remember:
  • Sure, this is disheartening for a 3/C to miss out on Herndon, training and knowing they are the last to come back to the yard. Not ideal in any way. But, so is every 3/C Midshipmen across the country. There are 3/C in NROTC right now who will be going back to school in the next few weeks making their own "commitment" to service. 3/C USNA Mids have the advantage as they do not commit until the following year. Let's think about the advantages they have! How many ship visits did they do Plebe Year, YP training, officer and enlisted interaction, various training events, saturday morning training events. Think about our own Capt MJ on this board and the interactions those Mids have with grads, their peers and Capt MJ and Mr. Capt MJ at a dinner on a Saturday night! Those are all learning, teaching moments for those Mids. I probably didn't realize how much I learned from moments like that until later on in my time, but I still cherish the dinners with my sponsor family (I had a large sponsor family with retired senior officer), sponsor siblings, grads, old team mates, etc. Their exposure on a daily basis to officers, enlisted, the Navy, Marine Corps and other things is much greater than their peer in ROTC. On a single day a Mid at USNA can interact with a dozen officers easily. I am not trying to disparage ROTC in anyway in this response. Their leaders are trying to figure out things just as USNA is and they have complexity of things like school policies they are dealing with.
  • The exposure an OCS candidate has to these things can vary greatly, but I can tell you a Mid has way more exposure. The training they have prior to OCS? Think about an NROTC Mid not on scholarship competing for Advanced Standing. Many of them only do 1 summer training their entire 4 years.
  • Concerns about missing training - absolutely. I do think they will get summer training next year. I think they will have to get creative also with Midshipmen weekends. What about a 2 week spring break where some Mids go to the fleet? I like to think about the positive about being at USNA during all this. Do you know how much of an advantage Mids have at USNA in this aspect? The amount of USNA officers and enlisted (both Navy and Marine Corps), Yard Patrol Craft, simulators, etc they have access to is second to none. NROTC Mids do not have access to these things out their back door. I have no idea what USNA is looking at, but I am sure there is an entire team evaluating what if scenarios, budgets, courses of action, etc.
  • Of course the Supt, Dant and staff has looked at every option from housing Mids in tents, to open houses/apts on the yard and gate 8, hotels, Ft Meade, the base across the river, and everything else in between. They do not need parents asking them this or even are due a response. No one wants them back on the yard training, living, being educated, etc. more than the staff. They want to accomplish the mission! I think trackandfield08 summed up the parental involvement piece well. I am so thankful I attended USNA before social media.
  • I do appreciate the Dant's open comms with the daily updates on IG. The part I really appreciate is his accountability that each Mid plays in this. A huge case study after all this is said and done with even the 1/C on decisions, factors, why certain things were done, what was reviewed, etc. would be fascinating and educational. I say 1/C, because by this time next year... they will be apart of these decisions on ships.
  • It's a world of uncertainty where things are moving daily. In many ways, this is exactly what a deployment and operations are like. I think this event is training in itself. Imagine being an E-3 on a ship right now (most of them are the same age as your kids) who is on their first deployment and hasn't touched land in 180 days and has no idea when they are going home again. Their Ensign, some of them are even Class of 2020 grads possibly, has to keep morale up, communicate with them, accomplish the mission all at the same time.
These are just thoughts from Old Grad peanut gallery. 3/C hang in there. I think you will make it back to the yard eventually and appreciate it that much more. Remember to take advantage of every opportunity as you never know what you can learn from it. Focus on what you can control right now and check in on your classmates.
 
NavyHoops said:
I think it sucks they are missing training, being on the yard and on milestone events. The whole world is going through this. They are not alone.

A few things to remember:
  • Sure, this is disheartening for a 3/C to miss out on Herndon, training and knowing they are the last to come back to the yard. Not ideal in any way. But, so is every 3/C Midshipmen across the country. There are 3/C in NROTC right now who will be going back to school in the next few weeks making their own "commitment" to service. 3/C USNA Mids have the advantage as they do not commit until the following year. Let's think about the advantages they have! How many ship visits did they do Plebe Year, YP training, officer and enlisted interaction, various training events, saturday morning training events. Think about our own Capt MJ on this board and the interactions those Mids have with grads, their peers and Capt MJ and Mr. Capt MJ at a dinner on a Saturday night! Those are all learning, teaching moments for those Mids. I probably didn't realize how much I learned from moments like that until later on in my time, but I still cherish the dinners with my sponsor family (I had a large sponsor family with retired senior officer), sponsor siblings, grads, old team mates, etc. Their exposure on a daily basis to officers, enlisted, the Navy, Marine Corps and other things is much greater than their peer in ROTC. On a single day a Mid at USNA can interact with a dozen officers easily. I am not trying to disparage ROTC in anyway in this response. Their leaders are trying to figure out things just as USNA is and they have complexity of things like school policies they are dealing with.
  • The exposure an OCS candidate has to these things can vary greatly, but I can tell you a Mid has way more exposure. The training they have prior to OCS? Think about an NROTC Mid not on scholarship competing for Advanced Standing. Many of them only do 1 summer training their entire 4 years.
  • Concerns about missing training - absolutely. I do think they will get summer training next year. I think they will have to get creative also with Midshipmen weekends. What about a 2 week spring break where some Mids go to the fleet? I like to think about the positive about being at USNA during all this. Do you know how much of an advantage Mids have at USNA in this aspect? The amount of USNA officers and enlisted (both Navy and Marine Corps), Yard Patrol Craft, simulators, etc they have access to is second to none. NROTC Mids do not have access to these things out their back door. I have no idea what USNA is looking at, but I am sure there is an entire team evaluating what if scenarios, budgets, courses of action, etc.
  • Of course the Supt, Dant and staff has looked at every option from housing Mids in tents, to open houses/apts on the yard and gate 8, hotels, Ft Meade, the base across the river, and everything else in between. They do not need parents asking them this or even are due a response. No one wants them back on the yard training, living, being educated, etc. more than the staff. They want to accomplish the mission! I think trackandfield08 summed up the parental involvement piece well. I am so thankful I attended USNA before social media.
  • I do appreciate the Dant's open comms with the daily updates on IG. The part I really appreciate is his accountability that each Mid plays in this. A huge case study after all this is said and done with even the 1/C on decisions, factors, why certain things were done, what was reviewed, etc. would be fascinating and educational. I say 1/C, because by this time next year... they will be apart of these decisions on ships.
  • It's a world of uncertainty where things are moving daily. In many ways, this is exactly what a deployment and operations are like. I think this event is training in itself. Imagine being an E-3 on a ship right now (most of them are the same age as your kids) who is on their first deployment and hasn't touched land in 180 days and has no idea when they are going home again. Their Ensign, some of them are even Class of 2020 grads possibly, has to keep morale up, communicate with them, accomplish the mission all at the same time.
These are just thoughts from Old Grad peanut gallery. 3/C hang in there. I think you will make it back to the yard eventually and appreciate it that much more. Remember to take advantage of every opportunity as you never know what you can learn from it. Focus on what you can control right now and check in on your classmates.
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Hear, hear!

I especially appreciate the differentiation and awareness shown about USNA, NROTC and OCS pre-comm experiences.

I really miss seeing the sponsor mid and sponsor alumni family. We have 2 sponsor alumni stationed at USNA right now. Regular texts are not the same as sitting on the deck reminiscing about their Bancroft years and hearing current Tales from Bancroft. Saturday night dinners stopped before spring break, victims of COVID.

My bottom line: I trust the leadership, with their decades of operational problem-solving experience and shiploads of seasoned leadership, to develop a fluid strategy, execute sound tactics, and remain agile enough to roll with new developments while steering the Brigade toward commissioning and good health with the best toolkit circumstances will allow.
 
One other thing I would challenge 2023 with... remember the person you left the yard as is not the same who will return. You and your classmates are not Plebes anymore and more mature adults now. If there was a Plebe you didn't get along with, thought poorly of, or they struggled Plebe year... give them a fresh start. You never know what was or is going on in their life. What have you done to get to know them better, understand them, help them? This is a great team to reach out to someone and just say hi and ask how are things are. You never know what it can lead it. Good luck!
 
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