Dismissed from my school. Can I still join ROTC at another college?

FatRob63

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Last week I was dismissed from Valley Forge Military College. I attended VFMC on a full Ike Skelton Early Commissioning Scholarship, and would have commissioned upon the completion of my sophomore year in May. Due to my I will soon be disenrolled from the Army ROTC program because the Ike Skelton scholarship can only persist while I attend a Military Junior College (MJC). The Early Commissioning Program requires that Cadets participate in the Simultaneous Membership Program (SMP), simultaneously being an ROTC cadet and member of the National Guard. I was a contracted MS4, and due to my SMP contract I will be placed in the hands of the Pennsylvania National Guard as an enlisted soldier once the disenrollment process is complete. I understand that I am now obligated to pay back the cost of tuition to the Army for the last 3 semesters, but that is not the focus of this post.

To give some background information, I was not dismissed for any illegal or criminal activities. It was mainly due to the fact that I had two "Honor Boards" (remember that this is a military college) because I was AWOL from campus on two separate occasions and I violated COVID protocols by doing so. Due to COVID we were completely restricted to campus the entire semester, and were only allowed to leave to attend drill. Basically the first time I left campus was to go get my car from my brothers apartment, we share it and he keeps it with him at Villanova, which is 5 mins away. I texted my TAC officer to let her know where I was going and why, it was around 9PM so I didn't expect a response, and the next day while I was at drill I had an email saying that I had an honor board. The second instance was because I had to complete an 8 hour drivers improvement class due to a speeding ticket I received earlier in the year. The penalty for not completing the class was a suspension of my license. I tried to go through the right process of requesting leave, however, I kept on getting denied by the TAC officer. I contacted the DMV numerous times but lines were down, and tried a few more times to convince my TAC that it was absolutely necessary for me to attend the class. I still got denied. Eventually I just told her that I was going to drill that weekend (which I obviously wasn't) she approved my leave for drill, and long story short I went to the class and ended up getting caught, went to another honor board, and was dismissed.

I am currently working on transfer applications to colleges for the spring semester, and I would like to join the AROTC program again. I have a 3.63 cumulative GPA, a 260 APFT score, am a member of Phi Theta Kappa (a national honor society for Junior colleges), and I still have a strong desire to commission as a Second Lieutenant in the United States Army. Do you believe that it is still possible for me to enroll in ROTC at my next college given the fact that I have been dismissed from college and disenrolled from the ROTC program previously? Am I "blacklisted" now because of this? Since I will still be serving as an enlisted member of the National Guard, I believe that I could work through the chain of command to receive a conditional release form my guard contract in order to enter a commissioning program. Once again the scholarship I had is not transferable to any other school, but I would just like to enroll in ROTC even if I am non-scholarship. Thank You.
 
You were under a restriction of movement order and left campus anyway, and all you had was an honor board? The second time, you do the same thing, but add a lie about going to drill for good measure? So you lost a full-ride scholarship to college rather than losing your driver's license?

Just so I'm getting all this right, you got kicked out of ROTC for two of the same honor violations (clearly you learned nothing from the first go) and want to get back into ROTC? I am going to venture to say no here.
 
As much as a stud as you may be physically or in mind, you would be a liability to a unit. I don't think you are going to be allowed back in nor would I recommend it. Either rules apply or not. The foundation of our country is the Constitution. Written rules. You took an oath with hand raised.
 
Constructively, it's pretty obvious you took the rules of your unit to be optional when they weren't and are/ will be paying a big penalty. That you didn't learn from your first light warning is unfortunate- really unfortunate. So now what. You're young, you messed up, lied to your chain of command/ got caught (twice in breaking the rules) and you are looking to regroup. Good for you. As you are interested, I would recommend you speak to each and every ROTC cadre at the schools you are interested to transfer to, "own" your mistakes / don't minimize them, be up-front about what happened, and ask the cadre about options to earn a commission in ROTC through their program. They may tell you no but at least you'll know - exhaust the options - even if 3 tell you no call the 4th - being armed with information in this case is a good thing. Maybe you'll get someone willing to take a chance on you.

Continuing your education is great. Continuing in the enlisted guard will move forward. You should explore options to "pay back" your tuition through service - ask. Seek specialized counsel if you need someone to advocate for you. If you want to be an officer you should discuss this with your chain of command at VFMC and in the guard. You're not the first trainee to mess up. Ask them what your options are. OCS eventually?

Just for your consideration, there is a term called fruit of the poisonous tree. The theory is if that the tree is poisoned it thus taints the fruit that grows from it. It's a legal term used to describe how evidence obtained illegally is tainted. Here, I share it because - keeping it real with you - within ROTC your decisions have tainted/ poisoned things. So even if you can continue with ROTC, a fresh start might better serve you, and then you won't have the weight of your mistakes and ROTC record haunting you. Recommend you give that some thought.

For additional consideration - have a talk with the man in the mirror and decide if you're going to continue to approach boundaries with a "thanks for your suggestion" casualness. If so then young Sir or Maam (Rob/ Roberta?- IDK) the military is really not your calling- right? If you keep approaching boundaries that casually, more likely you may have a future in corrections - wearing a striped uniform, and sharing a cell with a man who gives great massages named Bubba. Bill Cosby is right down the road from you - he'd be a great cellmate. He's funny as h*ll.

Life is about 10% what happens and 90% how you react to it. And while certainly different than your specific choices, most of us have made choices that had we in hindsight were whoo-weee not good. I won't insert a pic of the mullet like 'do I rocked in college but there's a pic out there I"m sure. I also bought a white cloth couch in my 20s - oh boy was that a mistake. I took a job for a 20% raise when there were red flags about the company that I chose to ignore. The list goes on. We live and learn and you should think of yourself as someone who needs to keep moving to not fall behind - like walking up a down escalator. Explore options, and keep moving forward. You can if you get over that serious character flaw of taking rules too casually have a future if you keep moving here. You're at a crossroads - wish you the best - Congrats on putting energy into moving forward and being interested in continuing to find a path to commission and serve. Good luck to you.
 
@Herman_Snerd has great advice above. But ONLY if you TRULY did learn. From your mistakes. Not just “geting caught” and looking for a way out.

No disrespect intended, but the tone of your post, to me, is still justifying your own actions. Using words like “only” 5 minutes. Or I “had” to go. Those are not learning to me. They are still making excuses and not seeing the big picture. So perhaps that’s why you were dismissed.

And I know of a SA dismissal for “only” taking pencils, snacks etc (“only” small fee items) from the wardroom without paying for the purchases. But what’s the bigger picture? Kid didn’t get it.

Hopefully this all clicks for you and you have learned a valuable lesson. But I don’t see this going the way you are asking. Of course we don’t know you...but from your post, imo, you need to be realistic about the outcome. Good luck to you.
 
In the course of the narration of the story, I saw no ownership of having made errors in judgment, of deliberately making bad choices, of understanding what was ethically wrong about the choices, of accepting responsibility for potentially putting the health of fellow cadets at risk by breaking COVID protocols for non-essential reasons, of willingness to understand a suspended license, while inconvenient and embarrassing, would have been a small price to pay for following orders, and of expressing true remorse. A cafeteria-style approach to ethics is not a sound foundation for military service. You chose to do what you wanted to do, not once, but twice, using magical thinking to mentally wriggle away from any sense of “I did wrong here.”

My very first military boss, an officer with an enlisted background and as salty as they come, once told me “Ensign, you might have good reasons for what you did, but there is no (insert colorful and profuse profanity) excuse for what you did.”

I think the practical advice to candidly discuss options with other ROTC units is sound, but if you relate the story in the same manner as you did here, you will be unlikely to receive a positive hearing. You seemed unable to say “I lied. I disobeyed direct orders. I did what I wanted to do, knowing I was not allowed to do it. Twice.” You have been whacked, hard, with serious consequences of being kicked out of a great school and program, losing a scholarship, owing payback and seriously damaging your reputation for reasons involving honor and character. You have much thinking and growing to do.

I hope one day you can look back at this incident as a major turning point in your own moral development, using it as a personal story as you mentor others to make harder choices and do the right thing, perhaps in uniform, perhaps not. You have a great opportunity to learn and change here. Don’t let it slip away.
 
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Lots of good analysis in this thread from seasoned veterans of our services. Obviously this kid made mistakes.

Also lots of folks living in glass houses virtue shouting out of the windows.

To the OP: if you want to re-enter ROTC in a new program, set an appointment with the program's leadership and ask them.

That's the answer to your question.
 
you won’t be able to hide this from a ROTC program. Your file in CCIMMs will be marked disenrollment and they’ll ask you what happened, and probably call back to Valley Forge. Honesty early is the only thing you got going for you.
Also, because you were dismissed getting into another college might be a challenge.
 
you won’t be able to hide this from a ROTC program. Your file in CCIMMs will be marked disenrollment and they’ll ask you what happened, and probably call back to Valley Forge. Honesty early is the only thing you got going for you.
Also, because you were dismissed getting into another college might be a challenge.

A challenge...I don't know...Colleges across the country enroll kids who were disenrolled from other places.

It happens all the time. Put it in your context...do you think the University of Montana would decline his app with their enrollment challenges? I don't.
 
Montana State probably would. Title9 told me kids who are looking to get kicked out should quit so they dont have to put on their applications at new schools that they were expelled.
 
F. Scott Fitzgerald allegedly wrote in "The Last Tycoon" that "There are no second acts in American lives." That is disputed as it was published posthumously and came from working notes.

However, Fitzgerald himself said there were indeed seconds acts in the essay "My Lost City" and of course his most famous character, Jay Gatsby (of "The Great Gatsby" fame) was the living embodiment of second acts in America.

Apply and explain, it is never over until it is over.
 
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F. Scott Fitzgerald allegedly wrote in "The Last Tycoon" that "There are no second acts in American lives." That is disputed as it was published posthumously and came from working notes.

The good people at VH1, who gave us countless episodes of “Behind the Music,” would beg to differ. Americans all have — and love to tell and hear about — stories of redemption.
 
F. Scott Fitzgerald allegedly wrote in "The Last Tycoon" that "There are no second acts in American lives." That is disputed as it was published posthumously and came from working notes.

However, Fitzgerald himself said there were indeed seconds acts in the essay "My Lost City" and of course his most famous character, Jay Gatsby (of "The Great Gatsby" fame) was the living embodiment of second acts in America.

Apply and explain, it is never over until it is over.
“F Scott Fitzgerald? What you have against Scott Fitzgerald?”

Also this is good advice.
 
The second instance was because I had to complete an 8 hour drivers improvement class due to a speeding ticket I received earlier in the year. The penalty for not completing the class was a suspension of my license. I tried to go through the right process of requesting leave, however, I kept on getting denied by the TAC officer. I contacted the DMV numerous times but lines were down, and tried a few more times to convince my TAC that it was absolutely necessary for me to attend the class. I still got denied.
It's probably the nature of the work I do, but if I were the one looking at your request I'd dig into the details in this part of the story. First, my general impression is that these "classes" can often be done online. Did you explore that? If that wasn't a possibility, wasn't there a way online to request a deferral -- particularly because of COVID -- on doing the class? If ALL of that was negative, did you take all of that information and documentation to your TAC officer?

My point here is that you want the reader to believe your TAC officer was acting unreasonably, so you didn't have any rational choice but to disobey her order and lie. In a situation like that, the burden is going to be on YOU to demonstrate that was the case. I agree with the general proposition that your TAC shouldn't be blase about your license being suspended -- which, BTW, could also have had downstream ramifications (so I doubt your TAC would have been blithe about it) -- but I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that, when the onion is peeled back, she wasn't. And you probably didn't do everything you could have and should have done to solve the problem correctly.

Officership is often about solving problems, and your story is an object lesson in how not to do it. You're going to have to be able to convince a decison-maker how that has changed.
 
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