Dropped from ROTC

Shawn123

New Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Messages
3
Hello,

I “was” an uncontracted MS3 awaiting for a waiver for AROTC. My waiver is for past suicidal behavior back in 2017 and depression (have been seeing a doctor periodically). I passed my board on November 2020 and have been waiting for a waiver ever since.

I built a successful career in ROTC, 3.88 GPA in the Honors College, 440 ACFT score, 100 volunteer hours, PSG, S4 NCOIC, got several awards from the PMS, etc.

However, on October I had a steep decline in mental health and voiced some suicidal intentions while intoxicated that were brought to cadres attention. They gave me help and that was about it.

This week, DoDMERB requested another AMI for my waiver. My PMS brought me in and told me he no longer intended me to pursue a contracted for me. He justified that:
1. The likelihood of my waiver being approved based on the new developments is unlikely;
2. I’m draining resources;
3. PMS no longer have confidence that I will be a good fit for an officer based on my current mental health.

The PMS mentioned reason 1 & 2 during our first conversation. And I told him I would still like to try to get my waiver since when I had my decline in mental health I spoke with my doctor if he thought it was best for me to take medication and leave ROTC which he advise against. Hence, the medical point of view might be less severe than the mouth to mouth from other cadets.

During our second conversation he mentioned reason 3. And from what I understood it was the biggest. My problem with it is that it feels like I’m being unfairly treated since the PMS is basing his view on my mental health on a single event where I was intoxicated and not considering my years of mental health progression and devotion to the program. I emailed the PMS asking him to speak to my doctor to learn more about my mental health and if he could reconsider after their conversation but I’m yet to hear back from him.

I understand that voicing suicidal intentions while intoxicated does not look great but it does not represent me. I understand that getting my waiver is unlikely but I would still like to try it. And I understand that being uncontracted gives me very little leeway to dispute being dropped.

Is there anyway I can fight being dropped as an uncontracted cadet?

PS:. I’m already looking for ways to move forward. It ain’t easy of course since I’ve spent the last 3 years of my life in ROTC and all my social bonds, etc. we’re built on it. But I would like to explore my options before giving up.

Thanks for the help in advance!
 
“but it does not represent me”

You have a somewhat long term history of depression and suicide threats or thoughts. And the suicide statements raised its head once again recently.

How does this very serious issue not represent you? It most certainly seems to and it’s an issues above all else you will have to deal with.

And today with a US military facing a serious issue of suicides.

I have no idea how you might fight this but based on what you have posted but I understand the position of your officers.

Combat and deployments and stressful training can turn the most solid mentally healthy people to the edge. College being relatively an easy piece of cake.

Good Luck
 
And why were you intoxicated given your condition? Sounds like a bad decision.
 
I am sorry you are dealing with this mental health challenge. Your health should be your main focus, so continue therapy and whatever helps you to stay on track with managing this.

“The needs of the Army” will always drive leadership decisions. With regard to mental health issues, decisions will skew more conservative. The relentless pressures of a harsh operating environment, life or death situations, remote locations far from advanced medical care, the responsibility of leading your soldiers and many other factors can impact the mental health of even the soundest people going into and coping with real-life assignments. There is a reason military accession health standards - physical and mental - are set so high.

I suspect your own healthcare provider knows that participating in ROTC has been a mentally healthy outlet, with the opportunity for regular physical activity, social engagement and friendships, a sense of purpose, and some goals. The provider is likely not thinking about the needs of the Army, just yours, which is just fine.

Whether spoken while intoxicated or not, suicidal ideation cannot be ignored by your chain of command. They will act in the best interests of the Army and your own health. Suicide is far too prevalent among military and veterans, especially after the decades of wartime footing we have been on. Awareness has been much heightened.

I don’t know what to tell you about fighting for a waiver. Perhaps you need to do that so you can feel you have given it your all. Whatever you do, do not stop seeing your doctor, counselors, taking medication or doing some PT every day. Plan for the worst outcome and do your best to have your mental health toolkit fully equipped to get through any disappointments.

You have worth, value and potential. If serving your country is something you want to do, there are ways to do it without taking a military path.
 
Please realize alcohol is a depressant. it has helped ruin many careers. A close friend of mine was medically retired for depression as an O-3. He is now working at a car wash(drying cars), lost countless jobs, lost his family, several DUIs. Guy was RA commissioned out of ROTC.

He never stopped drinking through all this issues. Now I believe he has and is working to get his life on track.

I don't know you but I'd recommend you stay away from alcohol.

Captain MJ said it best. Get healthy first. Your value isn't in ROTC.
 
Also, are you underage? Everyone wants you to be healthy and that is the most important thing but underage drinking is something taken very seriously.
Work on your mental health now.
Work on your college degree now.
You can try again for OCS later--when you are healthy and strong.
There are many paths to the same goal.
 
The military takes suicide seriously. How seriously they take preventing it is up for discussion. I would say that since my son has been in the military (3 years) , there has been a least 3 airman who have taken their own lives. The three are people who were at his base. Every time someone does this, they basically stop everything on base and they have suicide preventions seminars for everyone on base. How effective they are and if people take them seriously is another story, but the military don't like what is going on. My guess is that someone with history of it isn't going to exactly welcomed
 
Also, are you underage? Everyone wants you to be healthy and that is the most important thing but underage drinking is something taken very seriously.
Work on your mental health now.
Work on your college degree now.
You can try again for OCS later--when you are healthy and strong.
There are many paths to the same goal.
No, I’m not underage. I don’t usually drink, but in this case I went to a Halloween party, drank, and was already frustrated with other life stuff, and that happened.
 
Alcohol…liquid courage. Some people say that one’s true self comes out when drinking bc inhibitions are dropped.

Ask Mel Gibson.

Hang in there. Seriously. Someday none of this will be anything other than a story of the journey that got you where you are. You are obviously intelligent and gifted. You will make a name for yourself where ever you end up. We don’t always get to CHOOSE our path. And sometimes we are forced upon a different one. Be open to the journey, hold no retreats and forge forward. It’s honestly all we can do!! And you WILL end up with a fantastic life story. It just may look a little different than you expected. But that actualyyyyyyy happens to MOST people!
 
Alcohol…liquid courage. Some people say that one’s true self comes out when drinking bc inhibitions are dropped.

Ask Mel Gibson.

Hang in there. Seriously. Someday none of this will be anything other than a story of the journey that got you where you are. You are obviously intelligent and gifted. You will make a name for yourself where ever you end up. We don’t always get to CHOOSE our path. And sometimes we are forced upon a different one. Be open to the journey, hold no retreats and forge forward. It’s honestly all we can do!! And you WILL end up with a fantastic life story. It just may look a little different than you expected. But that actualyyyyyyy happens to MOST people!
Amen. You’re story is just beginning @Shawn123. Nothing but good things ahead, once your mental health comes first. Speaking from a family who just lost a very young Marine Veteran to suicide, what we all wouldn’t give to have just one more moment with him to tell him he’s worth it / stay up with him all night until he made it to another sunrise. Maybe this is an opportunity to shift gears & do something amazing, just in a different direction. Mental Health & Suicide awareness are critical & shouldn’t be taken lightly. Good things are coming your way - maybe via an alternate path. It’s not a better or worse path, just a different route. Best wishes on your bright future ⭐
 
Shawn123 - While all the advice given above is extremely helpful to you as an individual, to answer your basic question: "But I would like to explore my options before giving up" ...Montana State Army ROTC is 101% correct and accurate. Heed the constructive advice from the other members above and move forward towards a better future.:wiggle:
 
Hey man,

Listen I was in your shoes a year ago. Something extremely similar. Let’s have a chat via private messages.

Let me reiterate I am/have been in this exact position. Others on this thread are speaking (for the most part) very one sidedly and have brought up needs of the army and suicide prevention ….

I’ve sent you a direct message, hopefully you reach back out to me. I’ve been there, there’s always a way forward, and there is still a possibility of you commissioning dude. I fight the fight every day still. I get it, I really do.
 
Hey man,

Listen I was in your shoes a year ago. Something extremely similar. Let’s have a chat via private messages.

Let me reiterate I am/have been in this exact position. Others on this thread are speaking (for the most part) very one sidedly and have brought up needs of the army and suicide prevention ….

I’ve sent you a direct message, hopefully you reach back out to me. I’ve been there, there’s always a way forward, and there is still a possibility of you commissioning dude. I fight the fight every day still. I get it, I really do.
I tried private messaging you. It wouldn’t let me. Try shooting me a message otherwise I’ll drop my email. Let me know
 
I tried private messaging you. It wouldn’t let me. Try shooting me a message otherwise I’ll drop my email. Let me know
Shawn123 was last on the forums just under a year ago, in April 2022, and did not have enough messages to send/receive DMs. I suspect they haven’t returned. We can only hope they got the help they needed and have made it through their rough patch. It is kind of you to offer support and an understanding ear. If they return, that will be a blessing for them to see.
 
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