4 USAFA seniors may not graduate because of COVID shot mandate

Vaccines are designed to stimulate immunity. Some provide permanent protection, some require boosters, some ameliorate disease. It was hoped that the COVID vaccines would provide sterilizing immunity but that could not be guaranteed as this is a novel virus that mutates quickly and science is still working to make the vaccines better. What these vaccines do, very effectively, is prevent serious disease. The vaccines along with improved treatments have taken this pandemic to endemic levels in a short period of time. That is a huge win for all of us.
 
When I first saw this headline I thought it was because they had suffered adverse reactions that caused medical conditions that would prevent them from commissioning. However, that is not the case. They're not going to be able to commission because they're refusing a direct order to comply with stated mandatory guidelines.

So they are suffering a consequence that was highly predictable and completely preventable and results from their own decisions.
 
Vaccines are not there to protect us 100% % of the time from getting infected with whatever.

It’s never done that for the seasonal flu each and every year.

Yet any one that knows anything at all about public health knows that seasonal flu shots do lessen the number of infections and the severity for individuals if they become infected.

This is common knowledge

Follow legal orders or don’t graduate.

Do not want to follow orders in the future then reconsider applying or enlisting.

Kind of common sense.

Does this mean they will now get billed for 4 years of tax payer paid for education?
 
I’m unaware of ANY vaccine that is 100% effective.

No a hill upon which I would chose to die. As I’ve written many times, I’ve had much more “questionable” vaccines in the military than this.
While that is true, most childhood vaccines are 95% effective. You can’t say the Covid-19 vaccine is even 50% effective. Vaccines like measles, polio, tetanus etc were essentially eradicated because of the Vaccine, definitely cant say that with COVID. Listen, I got the J&J shot I’m not against vaccines but I am astounded at the number of people who still think this vaccine will keep them from getting COVID. Anyway, good luck to these cadets.
 
While that is true, most childhood vaccines are 95% effective. You can’t say the Covid-19 vaccine is even 50% effective. Vaccines like measles, polio, tetanus etc were essentially eradicated because of the Vaccine, definitely cant say that with COVID. Listen, I got the J&J shot I’m not against vaccines but I am astounded at the number of people who still think this vaccine will keep them from getting COVID. Anyway, good luck to these cadets.

I don't know where you are getting your stats from, yes several diseases were eventually eradicated due to vaccination programmes but it's certainly not a requirement for a vaccine to be worthwhile. I was vaccinated against measles and chicken pox as a child, I got both, but I didn't die of either which was the fate of children for 1000s of years before we developed vaccines. At a hospital I am connected to in South Africa, within 6 months of the launch of the COVID vaccine every single person bar none on a ventilator was unvaccinated. It was the first step in reopening the country and economy, not because people were not still getting COVID but because they were no longer dying and so the stakes of the game had changed completely.

Maybe it is true that the demographic of these cadets is such that they were highly likely to survive COVID whether they were vaccinated or not (not negating the very negative experiences of long COVID on young previously athletic people) but whatever these cadets may have thought about the efficacy of the vaccine the fact that they would refuse a lawful order to take it suggests that the Air Force is better off without them. Choices = consequences, zero sympathy...
 
I am astounded at the number of people who still think this vaccine will keep them from getting COVID.
Anyone who thinks this is either misinformed or hasn't been paying attention. That was the initial hope but was never promised by the manufacturers or any reputable source.

I'm astounded by the number of people who think that a vaccine that is almost 100% effective at preventing serious disease (the main goal) is anything less than a miracle.
 
I would also add that there is more to vaccines in the military than the civilian side.
First, the military isn’t Burger King where everyone gets to pick and chose what vaccines, medical tests, etc you get. Each and every year in the military I got a sickle cell test. Every. Year.
You can’t “catch” sickle cell. Either you are born with it or you’re not. But the military ordered me to get one so I got one.
Second, the military deploys all over the world and is subject to SOFA (Status Of Forces Agreements), part of which may be certain vaccines. Again, I didn’t get a say in the matter. When I went to Africa I got… a bunch of shots to include phase one of rabies. It’s not like you can go in the military and say “I won’t get these shots even though it precludes me from going to XYZ.” I’m pretty sure this applies to COVID. Some countries won’t let you in without the vaccine. Ummm… ok. There’s the door. Don’t let it hit you on the way out:
 
Ah yes, another vaccine thread where we get "zero sympathy..." Where is the heartwarming love for those rogues? Wait, perhaps that is just a tinge of myocarditis.

Where we talk about a lawful order that dictates using FDA approved vaccines - Comirnaty and Spikevax - which are still not available 10 months later. We then say the EUA versions are just as good even though they are legally distinct and can't be mandated to anyone.

Where we pretend all vaccines are the same and ignore the CDC changing the definition of vaccine. Yes, if you vaccinated your dog four times in one year against rabies and that dog still got and spread rabies you might wonder if it was really a vaccine.

Where more people died from the covid vaccines in the first few months than all other vaccines combined over the last 20 years with a death count still growing but we say it is safe and effective.

Where we pretend to ignore all the misinformation censorship that happened over the last two years as 2020's bannable statements turned into 2022's truths.

Where we say a winter of death is coming to all those unvaccinated rubes and five months later the Navy death count remains unchanged at 17. Being stationed on a ship undergoing long term refurbishment is more deadly than catching Omicron.

Where we have all sorts of sympathy for cadets who cheat on their math test or snort fentanyl laced cocaine on spring break but none for those that are hesitant to take the clot shot.

It makes me sad to see what is happening to these young people. As always stated in these threads, I hope the long term consequences are mild or nonexistent for all these students forced to take experimental drugs with no long term testing and no recourse if they are injured or die from it.
 
They signed their names on the dotted lines. During the best of times. Knowing full well that the worst of times might come some day. While Covid is certainly a serious crisis, not the absolute worst of times. When one makes a binding agreement, one keeps their word. Health maintenance is clearly one of those obligations. Many here have made and kept those same obligations. The vax reduces the effects of Covid.


It's part of the deal.
 
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”when more people died from the covid vax in the first few months”

This sort of nonsense puts people at risk. Blatant misinformation should not be OK here.
 
You are about 10 months too late to request misinformation censorship. You should try something along the lines of "this is off topic" or insult someone or say something political. It is the fastest way to get a thread on coronavirus vaccines locked. The bacon comments hint it is coming.

Some doctors somewhere decided there is no evidence (other than three J&J clot deaths) that all the deaths reported in VAERS after getting the covid vaccine are related to the vaccine at all. That VAERS number is up to 14,596 as of last week (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html)

From the article linked above:

"How many people have died after getting a vaccine?

Between December 2020 and July 19th, 2021, VAERS received 6,207 reports of death (0.0018% of doses) among people who got a vaccine, but this does not mean the vaccine caused these deaths. Doctors and safety monitors carefully review the details of each case to see if it might be linked to the vaccine. There are three deaths that appear to be linked to blood clots that occurred after people got the J&J vaccine. Since we now know how to correctly treat people who develop these blood clots, future deaths related to this very rare side effect can be prevented.

After careful review of the additional data, doctors have decided that there is no evidence at all that the vaccines contributed to the other patient deaths. Nonetheless, the CDC and FDA will continue to investigate every single report of death (and other adverse events) reported to VAERS."

I am not sure even the most diehard supporters believe this anymore. Perhaps they do but the linked article was written back (Spring/Summer 2021) when the vaccination push was in full force, disagreement was anti-science, and many of those that declined the EUA vaccines were disenrolled from their colleges, fired from their jobs, or put on a list to be separated from the military with threats of dishonorable discharges - and to be replaced by $25k signing bonuses.

That said, sadly as of now the various branches are taking the position that the EUA vaccines are the same as the non-available FDA approved vaccines and refusal has its no sympathy consequences. Removal now, litigation later.
 
Where we have all sorts of sympathy for cadets who cheat on their math test or snort fentanyl laced cocaine on spring break but none for those that are hesitant to take the clot shot
Where do you see such sympathy? Choices = consequences. To be clear, I wish these kids (cheaters, drug takers or those who refuse legal orders) no ill will, I hope they will live fulfilling and useful lives and be happy in them. But their refusal in inconsistent with military service which will require them to do this kind of thing not once or twice but over and over, if they are already signaling an unwillingness in this regard then why drag it out, say goodbye and move on.


Where more people died from the covid vaccines in the first few months than all other vaccines combined over the last 20 years with a death count still growing but we say it is safe and effective.
Your quoting of this obviously wrong and repeatedly proved untrue 'fact' along with your preemptive suggestion that all of this evidence and proof are in fact part of a mass misinformation campaign suggests you are so far down the tin hat rabbit hole that further conversation is indeed about as useless as the proverbial chocolate teapot.
 
Just a few observations.
Sympathy: these cadets have been given an extended second chance to get the vaccine, and are still be allowed a chance. I think that's why it may appear there's no sympathy - they've had so long to take care of this and yet they still are going against the service's wishes and people are getting impatient.
Deaths: The comment that more have dies from the vaccine as opposed to all other vaccines is not accurate because it's based on all deaths as reported to VAERS - "Deaths reported to VAERS are not a death toll. The database includes all serious adverse events following vaccination against COVID-19, regardless of whether the vaccines are to blame." LINK
Comirnaty and Spikevax - This is explained at this link "The claim falsely implies that those vaccines, which have received approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, are different from the non-branded vaccines that have been in use since December 2020 under the Emergency Use Authorization."
The fact check sites above call out both sides of debates, and are a bit more trustworthy than Epoch Times or Tucker "Replacement Theory" Carlson who have been spreading this misinformation.
As respects the 4 cadets, they knew the financial consequences of being disenrolled as juniors or seniors, and they've had access top multiple science based evidence as to why the AF wants people vaccinated. I'm all for second chances and consideration of penalty vs. offense (e.g., the cadet who didn't acknowledge trying a joint at age 14 getting kicked out or a scholarship pulled). But given the time frame these cadets have had to get the vaccine or leave, I think it's fair for the AF to take action.
I wish all parties had just said goodbye to each other at the start and leave it at that.
 
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