VMI in the news

PaigeM

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Jan 5, 2022
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47
Hello all. I am female and it has long been my dream to serve our country as an officer in the military. I will be graduating HS in June 2023. I just started the application processes for USMA and Army ROTC Scholarship. Obviously USMA is my top choice but being realistic I think I will have a better chance to get into an SMC and use the ROTC route to commission into full service duty. Though ROTC can be done at so many different schools, I am only interested in attending an SMC where ROTC and the Corps of Cadets is not an extra-curricular activity but deeply embedded into the schools core values. VMI has been one of my top choices for over a year now but recent articles like the one below are starting to give me pause. The articles comments are even more disturbing. Make no mistake about it, my grit and determination to achieve success as a military leader are unquestionable and 100% intact. This article is telling me that, as a women, at VMI I will be treated differently and subjected to misogyny and rape. So I put it out here to this community to give me the honest and true opinion of VMI from those that have actually attended VMI and other such schools like the Citadel.

 
This article is telling me that, as a women, at VMI I will be treated differently and subjected to misogyny and rape.
It does? I didn’t see that at all. In fact, I don’t think I even saw the word “rape” in the article. I say this with respect, not knowing you personally: You seem to be implying that rape is systemic — or at least more prevalent — at VMI. I don’t know whether that’s the case. But true or not, the article says nothing about that.

As the father of a newly commissioned woman — USMC out of USNA — the possibility of rape in any setting is a significant concern of mine. It’s despicable and disgusting, and offenders should burn in hell. It’s the concern of just about every parent, and maybe more so when their daughter enters a predominantly male profession with a history — even if trending positively — of sexism and misogyny.

But be careful about painting with an overly broad brush. Be careful about a blanket indictment without hard facts. Very sadly, rape does occur at VMI — as it does at every college campus, military or civilian. Whether it’s more likely to happen at VMI is something I don’t know. But I do know the military — at least officially, from the top — is committed to eradicating sexual violence, sexism and misogyny.

My DD had a fantastic experience at USNA. She had many male shipmates. When she brought mid guests to our house over the holidays, they were all males. I’ve heard female mids describe male mids as akin to brothers, e.g. supportive, protective, annoying, embarrassing. I imagine that’s the case in all officer-commissioning programs.

You’re right to be concerned about your personal safety. Keep it top of mind, regardless of your college choice. At the same time, don’t damn entire institutions without a full view of the facts. I wish you the best as you pursue your goal of an officer’s commission.
 
I couldn’t access the article you reference but a couple of quick thoughts albeit from the perspective of a dad with sons. (We have taught them to respect women. Also, my son is on AROTC scholarship at an SMC, not VMI, although it was on his short list.)

Sexual assault is a potential danger on any college campus. I don’t think VMI is worse. I’m not sure if it is better.

There are many forces, particularly in the media, that seem intent on bringing down VMI. The Washington Post is one example.

I agree it is both good that you are aware of the potential danger and sad to me that you need to be.
 
I’m not going to dive down the rabbit hole on this one as I’ve done that in related threads, other than to say the following. The political decisions made in Richmond, whether under the prior Governor on one side of the aisle or the current Governor on the other side, has little to no bearing on the culture and life in the Corps. This rings true for the Board of Visitors, as well. They, as a collective, and in conjunction with the Superintendent, make broad strategic decisions, but they don’t actually run the school. I never had any interactions with the BoV, positive or negative, during my time there. The Superintendent sets the tone and runs the place and it trickles down from there. Recommend you go visit and talk with Cadets. Feel free to respond or DM if you have particular questions.
 
It does? I didn’t see that at all. In fact, I don’t think I even saw the word “rape” in the article. I say this with respect, not knowing you personally: You seem to be implying that rape is systemic — or at least more prevalent — at VMI. I don’t know whether that’s the case. But true or not, the article says nothing about that.

As the father of a newly commissioned woman — USMC out of USNA — the possibility of rape in any setting is a significant concern of mine. It’s despicable and disgusting, and offenders should burn in hell. It’s the concern of just about every parent, and maybe more so when their daughter enters a predominantly male profession with a history — even if trending positively — of sexism and misogyny.

But be careful about painting with an overly broad brush. Be careful about a blanket indictment without hard facts. Very sadly, rape does occur at VMI — as it does at every college campus, military or civilian. Whether it’s more likely to happen at VMI is something I don’t know. But I do know the military — at least officially, from the top — is committed to eradicating sexual violence, sexism and misogyny.

My DD had a fantastic experience at USNA. She had many male shipmates. When she brought mid guests to our house over the holidays, they were all males. I’ve heard female mids describe male mids as akin to brothers, e.g. supportive, protective, annoying, embarrassing. I imagine that’s the case in all officer-commissioning programs.

You’re right to be concerned about your personal safety. Keep it top of mind, regardless of your college choice. At the same time, don’t damn entire institutions without a full view of the facts. I wish you the best as you pursue your goal of an officer’s commission.
I am by no means trying to paint a picture about the entire school in fact it's the school I think I would most like to attend. I guess I was referring to this article https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2021/07/12/vmi-women-sex-assault-misogyny/ which is made mention of in the other article. VMI is my dream education enviroment. I am tough as nails with git and determination to match. I guess what I am really for is others to tell me "don't listen to what the WAPO says" , or someone to tell me "this is just another job on traditions".
 
I’m not going to dive down the rabbit hole on this one as I’ve done that in related threads, other than to say the following. The political decisions made in Richmond, whether under the prior Governor on one side of the aisle or the current Governor on the other side, has little to no bearing on the culture and life in the Corps. This rings true for the Board of Visitors, as well. They, as a collective, and in conjunction with the Superintendent, make broad strategic decisions, but they don’t actually run the school. I never had any interactions with the BoV, positive or negative, during my time there. The Superintendent sets the tone and runs the place and it trickles down from there. Recommend you go visit and talk with Cadets. Feel free to respond or DM if you have particular questions.
Thank you for the reply. I'm just a little nervous about selecting which SMC. My visit at VMI in March was great!
 
I'd personally recommend Norwich as a choice for SMC. I'll be attending in August, and they do give AMAZING financial aid packages. It is the oldest ROTC program in the US. I visited in March, it was a great experience, I thought I wouldn't like the weather, but it was incredible

Something to consider
 
The Regimental Commander was a female Cadet last year (she is now a Marine). VMI's single infraction Honor Code gives the Institute the ability to deal decisively with a Cadet who lies.

The WaPo reporter whose article you cited has made "hating VMI" his personal crusade the last two years. Despite the attacks, the tiny SMC lodged in the folds of the Shenandoah since 1839 will persevere.
 
To the OP, you will find misogyny and sexual assault crimes on every campus, in civilian workplaces, in a wide spread of career fields in and out of uniform. It is becoming incrementally better all the time, but stuff still happens.

You will pick your battles. Some you walk away from, some you stand and fight. Performance, performance, performance and relentless professionalism are the keys to combatting misogyny. A thick skin, a sense of humor, and a strong sense of who you are, your own power, and commitment to your goals and what is really important in life - they help too.

Sexual assault. You can do your part by minimizing your exposure to situations where you are vulnerable. We don’t blame the victim, but smart women (and men, as they are often the under-reported side of sexual assault victims) should always have situational awareness. Walking back late to dorm from the library? Walk with a buddy. Take a longer route that is better lit. Know where the blue call boxes are. At a party where the alcohol is way out of control? Leave. Ignore the teasing. Watch your own intake. It doesn’t take much at all to mess with your good judgment and decision-making. Don’t take a drink except from someone you know you can truly trust, not that good-looking, seems perfectly nice stranger who wanders over with 2 drinks in hand to say hi. Don’t leave your drink untended and go to the bathroom. If your gut is warning you about something or someone, listen to it. Always have an exit strategy. Get over worrying about someone might think you are “not nice,” empower yourself to scream if you need to, yell “no” or do whatever it takes to signal non-assent. Form alliances with trusted friends to get each other back safely.

At my own college, back in the 20th C., I saw friends straggle back from parties in a daze, having no idea what happened to them but knowing something invasive had, and not knowing who, how many, how. Heartbreaking. There would be “Ladies’ Punch,” sweet fruit drinks liberally spiked with Everclear grain alcohol at staggeringly high proofs. I had no problem being a complete nerd and carried my own half bottle of cabernet and cheerfully waved off those pushing unknown beverages at me, owning up to be too chicken to try anything because I’d lose my scholarship. I had never lost control in high school, and I had no intention of doing so in college - I had places to go, things to do, and people to meet.

At VMI, I am quite sure the men and women you meet will be just like people you are leaving behind. You will form strong bonds through shared struggles, make friends for life, gain a new family. They will look out for you. You will look out for them. There is a whole pile of good people waiting to meet you.

Keep your heart and mind focused on your goals, and assess choices and decisions through that lens. You will grow in confidence and power, and be less influenced by peer pressure and opinion. It is a wonderful feeling to be young, smart, strong and firmly in command of your own mind and body. Embrace that person and ignore those who seek to derail you. Mental and physical strength, integrity, personal power and command presence are beautiful things in a woman. People who cannot appreciate that about you are not worth your time.
 
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Hello all. I am female and it has long been my dream to serve our country as an officer in the military. I will be graduating HS in June 2023. I just started the application processes for USMA and Army ROTC Scholarship. Obviously USMA is my top choice but being realistic I think I will have a better chance to get into an SMC and use the ROTC route to commission into full service duty. Though ROTC can be done at so many different schools, I am only interested in attending an SMC where ROTC and the Corps of Cadets is not an extra-curricular activity but deeply embedded into the schools core values. VMI has been one of my top choices for over a year now but recent articles like the one below are starting to give me pause. The articles comments are even more disturbing. Make no mistake about it, my grit and determination to achieve success as a military leader are unquestionable and 100% intact. This article is telling me that, as a women, at VMI I will be treated differently and subjected to misogyny and rape. So I put it out here to this community to give me the honest and true opinion of VMI from those that have actually attended VMI and other such schools like the Citadel.

Hi - glad you are considering an SMC as well as a service academy. Either one will offer you many opportunities not found at the typical college or university. I graduated from The Citadel and can give you a perspective from this college, as well as being the father of two daughters who attended large universities (Penn State and NYU). I have volunteered with The Citadel Admissions and Public Affairs Offices for many years, and due to the college being male only until the late 90s, the issue of how women are treated is always a question young women and their parents ask about. The days of these institutions being male only are long gone and most current cadets have no reference to that era, nor do they care. Although VMI and The Citadel are not military institutions, they are often lumped in with the military by the public and media, and so are under a fish bowl atmosphere whenever an incident happens. Both institutions place young men and women under emotional and physical stress just like the military and military academies do. Sometimes this results in immature behavior, but actual sexual harassment and physical assaults are very rare. Because cadets and midshipmen are under constant supervision, such acts are more often identified and dealt with immediately at a service academy or SMC than at civilian institutions. As someone mentioned, earlier, more often male and female cadets treat each other as brothers and sisters going through the same stresses - and they bond accordingly.

As a father of two young women, this issue was an important one for me as they applied to colleges. Once you leave home and find yourself on your own, you will need to be especially aware of your surroundings and you should ask hard questions about how well the institution provides for your safety and how seriously it treats sexual harassment and especially incidents of rape. How the institution responds to your questions will tell you a lot. Are they open, and genuine? Do they have offices and programs that specifically address sexual discrimination, harassment and rape? Women are definitely at a minority in the military, at military service academies and SMCs. This is just a fact of life and if it concerns you, you should continue to ask as many questions as you need to get comfortable. The Citadel and VMI have gone to great lengths to provide women with equal opportunities to succeed, and for their personal security. My personal opinion is young women will find themselves much safer and more accepted in the structured environments of small colleges like VMI or The Citadel, than they will at many civilian colleges and universities with fraternities. Best of luck to you.
 
To the OP, you will find misogyny and sexual assault crimes on every campus, in civilian workplaces, in a wide spread of career fields in and out of uniform. It is becoming incrementally better all the time, but stuff still happens.

You will pick your battles. Some you walk away from, some you stand and fight. Performance, performance, performance and relentless professionalism are the keys to combatting misogyny. A thick skin, a sense of humor, and a strong sense of who you are, your own power, and commitment to your goals and what is really important in life - they help too.

Sexual assault. You can do your part by minimizing your exposure to situations where you are vulnerable. We don’t blame the victim, but smart women (and men, as they are often the under-reported side of sexual assault victims) should always have situational awareness. Walking back late to dorm from the library? Walk with a buddy. Take a longer route that is better lit. Know where the blue call boxes are. At a party where the alcohol is way out of control? Leave. Ignore the teasing. Watch your own intake. It doesn’t take much at all to mess with your good judgment and decision-making. Don’t take a drink except from someone you know you can truly trust, not that good-looking, seems perfectly nice stranger who wanders over with 2 drinks in hand to say hi. Don’t leave your drink untended and go to the bathroom. If your gut is warning you about something or someone, listen to it. Always have an exit strategy. Get over worrying about someone might think you are “not nice,” empower yourself to scream if you need to, yell “no” or do whatever it takes to signal non-assent. Form alliances with trusted friends to get each other back safely.

At my own college, back in the 20th C., I saw friends straggle back from parties in a daze, having no idea what happened to them but knowing something invasive had, and not knowing who, how many, how. Heartbreaking. There would be “Ladies’ Punch,” sweet fruit drinks liberally spiked with Everclear grain alcohol at staggeringly high proofs. I had no problem being a complete nerd and carried my own half bottle of cabernet and cheerfully waved off those pushing unknown beverages at me, owning up to be too chicken to try anything because I’d lose my scholarship. I had never lost control in high school, and I had no intention of doing so in college - I had places to go, things to do, and people to meet.

At VMI, I am quite sure the men and women you meet will be just like people you are leaving behind. You will form strong bonds through shared struggles, make friends for life, gain a new family. They will look out for you. You will look out for them. There is a whole pile of good people waiting to meet you.

Keep your heart and mind focused on your goals, and assess choices and decisions through that lens. You will grow in confidence and power, and be less influenced by peer pressure and opinion. It is a wonderful feeling to be young, smart, strong and firmly in command of your own mind and body. Embrace that person and ignore those who seek to derail you. Mental and physical strength, integrity, personal power and command presence are beautiful things in a woman. People who cannot appreciate that about you are not worth your time.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply. As suspected, WaPo article is just another hit piece. I am so anxious to start USMA or a SMC that I can hardly wait.
 
Hi - glad you are considering an SMC as well as a service academy. Either one will offer you many opportunities not found at the typical college or university. I graduated from The Citadel and can give you a perspective from this college, as well as being the father of two daughters who attended large universities (Penn State and NYU). I have volunteered with The Citadel Admissions and Public Affairs Offices for many years, and due to the college being male only until the late 90s, the issue of how women are treated is always a question young women and their parents ask about. The days of these institutions being male only are long gone and most current cadets have no reference to that era, nor do they care. Although VMI and The Citadel are not military institutions, they are often lumped in with the military by the public and media, and so are under a fish bowl atmosphere whenever an incident happens. Both institutions place young men and women under emotional and physical stress just like the military and military academies do. Sometimes this results in immature behavior, but actual sexual harassment and physical assaults are very rare. Because cadets and midshipmen are under constant supervision, such acts are more often identified and dealt with immediately at a service academy or SMC than at civilian institutions. As someone mentioned, earlier, more often male and female cadets treat each other as brothers and sisters going through the same stresses - and they bond accordingly.

As a father of two young women, this issue was an important one for me as they applied to colleges. Once you leave home and find yourself on your own, you will need to be especially aware of your surroundings and you should ask hard questions about how well the institution provides for your safety and how seriously it treats sexual harassment and especially incidents of rape. How the institution responds to your questions will tell you a lot. Are they open, and genuine? Do they have offices and programs that specifically address sexual discrimination, harassment and rape? Women are definitely at a minority in the military, at military service academies and SMCs. This is just a fact of life and if it concerns you, you should continue to ask as many questions as you need to get comfortable. The Citadel and VMI have gone to great lengths to provide women with equal opportunities to succeed, and for their personal security. My personal opinion is young women will find themselves much safer and more accepted in the structured environments of small colleges like VMI or The Citadel, than they will at many civilian colleges and universities with fraternities. Best of luck to you.
Thanks so much for the reply and the suggestions. I am so anxious to start my time at VMI or USMA even though I am still a year away. I will most definitely ask those questions, but will be sure to not ask in any sort of accusatory way. I'm leaving for Norwich University's 2 week military style Future Leaders Camp in 3 weeks and can't wait to get there.
 
I'd personally recommend Norwich as a choice for SMC. I'll be attending in August, and they do give AMAZING financial aid packages. It is the oldest ROTC program in the US. I visited in March, it was a great experience, I thought I wouldn't like the weather, but it was incredible

Something to consider
I will be at Norwich University Future Leaders Camp in a few weeks. I can't wait to get there! As an incoming rook, do you have to attend FLC as well?
 
Thanks so much for the reply and the suggestions. I am so anxious to start my time at VMI or USMA even though I am still a year away. I will most definitely ask those questions, but will be sure to not ask in any sort of accusatory way. I'm leaving for Norwich University's 2 week military style Future Leaders Camp in 3 weeks and can't wait to get there.
Great idea to look at multiple options.
 
I will be at Norwich University Future Leaders Camp in a few weeks. I can't wait to get there! As an incoming rook, do you have to attend FLC as well?
It is not required, and I chose not to attend for the costs, I'm saving that money for my tuition. I've heard that it's definitely a great experience. Plus you get a 2k scholarship from it.

Let me know if you have any questions, I have 6 weeks till I won't be online anymore lol
 
There is no 100% safe campus. There is risk everywhere. I think military schools get more attention re sexual assault, but I doubt they’re any worse than they’re civilian counterparts. I know I felt safer at USNA. That being said, sexual assaults definitely happened in my time there.

As a woman, you have to be careful no matter what school you attend. Don’t put yourself in situations that are likely to go awry. Be smart with alcohol - many, if not most, sexual assaults in college are tied to one or both parties being drunk. Be smart about the venues you visit and whom you go with. If campus security will walk you somewhere at night, take advantage of it. It shouldn’t be this way, shouldn’t be the woman’s responsibility, but it’s important to do things to prevent becoming a victim.

Don’t be afraid to ask the hard questions when you visit any school.
 
My son just graduated from VMI. I was an awesome experience. Keep in mind an ROTC scholarship doesn't cover room and board (you get to choose but tuition is much more expensive, especially if you're out of state. VMI has some other scholarships that can help with room and board.

I think that sexual assault is a horrifying prospect, and you're smart to look at this issue. VMI is not perfect but it's overall very safe. Alcohol can get you in hot water quickly, and that is connected to many sexual assaults. My son has a lot of respect for the fit and smart ladies who could handle VMI and made some lasting friendships with many of them. A recent article (maybe the one that you're concerned with) talks about not giving immunity for drug and alcohol use if you report a sexual assault. At no time at VMI would you be given immunity for any violation of the discipline code, unless the leadership deemed it to be appropriate. You are not to lie, cheat, or steal, or tolerate those who do. It is a single sanction removal. Other things, like alcohol, typically don't get you expelled (unless you lie about it) but you're punished. I think the article, and the WaPo in general, are attacks on VMI, and I personally agree with the administration to try to improve from these charges, even if they aren't totally warranted. I went to a state school, and my daughter's going to a large state school. I'd be much more comfortable with her at VMI than her current college.
 
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Thanks so much for the reply and the suggestions. I am so anxious to start my time at VMI or USMA even though I am still a year away. I will most definitely ask those questions, but will be sure to not ask in any sort of accusatory way. I'm leaving for Norwich University's 2 week military style Future Leaders Camp in 3 weeks and can't wait to get there.
My son will be attending Norwich in the fall on an Army ROTC scholarship. We looked at The Citadel also. We drove through the VMI campus (which I liked), but tours were not available at the time. VMI didn't have the major my son was interested so that one was off the list pretty quickly. However, at all 3 of these SMCs I was concerned about culture as it relates to hazing (and I feel like what you are concerned about would be included in this). I read a lot of articles about VMI and The Citadel. There didn't seem to be as much about Norwich related to hazing. I did notice that in the past few years all of the schools are under new leadership, so that made me consider that maybe the ways of the past won't be the ways of the future. The more I looked into it I really came to appreciate the leadership style of Norwich President Anarumo. I had heard of him when he moved into the dorms during Covid to live among the students. The more I read, the more I liked him. In the spring semester, there was an issue of hazing that involved (mostly) the women's rugby team. We received an email at the time it was being investigated and again at the conclusion. It made me confident that the leadership at Norwich is committed to the safety of their students. My son didn't get to go to FLC as it was canceled during Covid. I think it will be a great opportunity for you. And as the other guy said, the aid at Norwich is fantastic (even for us who didn't qualify for need). The Citadel (new this year) and Norwich both offer room and board if you receive an ROTC scholarship. I don't believe VMI does. I hope USMA becomes a reality for you, but know there are other great options available to you as a plan B. Good luck!
 
I’ve had two (a DD and DS) at regular college and two (both DS’s) at a SA (different, but similar).

Hands down, the Military college had more education, attention and accountability present than big ‘state u’. I agree with @MidCakePa. And from speaking to my SA sons about this very thing, their own bonded feelings of brotherhood and family towards their ‘sisters’ is strong. They also don’t put up with others treating their ‘sisters’ in any type of way. It’s not socially acceptable. It’s disgusting. And that opinion is openly discussed and seen.

Stuff happens everywhere. As in ALL risk areas, minimizing that risk, having a plan, is paramount as @Capt MJ pointed out. Sexual assaults is everyone’s responsibility.
 
..... Sexual assaults is everyone’s responsibility.
Yes. As a 65 year old Male, who attended a State Maritime Academy when females were first allowed in...and now I teach at this school. Given the low % females, it's often that 'Im with all male groups. I don't allow any "joking" or off color remarks. Leadership by example is critical.
 
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