“Why Can’t the Navy Keep its Surface Warfare Officers?”

Kierkegaard

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Wondering if some of you who’ve had exposure to the Fleet have any thoughts on this question. I’ve always heard retention was an issue, but I was not aware of an over-saturation of junior SWOs competing for time to qualify. How does this reconcile with the mantra that SWOs are chronically overworked and sleep deprived? Curious to hear your thoughts.
 
It makes sense because while its true there are other people who could help if they aren't trained and there is no one to train them, then they wont be used. They are doing busy work but nothing that lends to making the ship run more efficiently or reduces the time each person has to put in. The other issue they mentioned and it's the same thing AF pilots go through, is that instead of doing the work they were hired and trained to do, they are doing paperwork. Pilots fly once, maybe twice a week, depending on the plane. What do you think they do the other 3-4 days of the week
 
Private sector temptations can be very attractive.

Ever since my DS commissioned, I have remarked that there is virtually no workplace that offers a fresh faced college graduate more immediate and consequential managerial experience than the US military. Add to that, successfully leading a closely knit, truly diverse team while being "chronically overworked and sleep deprived"--I want that guy/gal working for me.

Elite graduate school programs, who look for consequential work experience after BA/BS also want them as well. From my understanding they have spots reserved for veterans.
 

Not trying to hype my thread on this topic but here are some responses while others respond to this one.
 

Wondering if some of you who’ve had exposure to the Fleet have any thoughts on this question. I’ve always heard retention was an issue, but I was not aware of an over-saturation of junior SWOs competing for time to qualify. How does this reconcile with the mantra that SWOs are chronically overworked and sleep deprived? Curious to hear your thoughts.
It is right in line with it to be sure. The fleet has a huge Admin Beast to keep in its cage by constant attention that takes effort from all. At the same time, many ships put extra people on watch teams because all JOs need to get bridge time so with that watch rotation comes interrupted sleep. While at least some some of the sailors may get some extra rack time after a late night watch, the officers generally will be expected to be up and about throughout the regular work day IN ADDITION to the night watches, etc.

By the way, the extra folks on bridge teams don't really help with qualifying the added load of people as the key spots (OOD and Conning Officer) for the key evolutions like anchoring. entering and leaving port, UNREP, etc. are finite and even in the best of times are barely enough to qualify the REGULAR cadre of SWO trainees as well as allow already qualified people to keep their skills current. The added numbers of "extra" folks do not bring additional opportunities for the evolutions so what was barely enough before now has to be stretched for many more people.

PM me directly for more info, there is a SWO message board that is actively discussing this on a perennial basis.
 
"How does this reconcile with the mantra that SWOs are chronically overworked and sleep deprived? Curious to hear your thoughts."

I'll chime in while you wait for others. I noticed on all four of my surface ships that the ship as a whole was always at least one or two junior officers short. We'd get one or two reporting aboard and the people they relieved were already gone.

I agree that if SWOs aren't getting enough sleep, waaa, then why? Surely there's time for rack ops with all those bunks in boys town occupied. Doesn't make sense to me either.
 

Not trying to hype my thread on this topic but here are some responses while others respond to this one.

Yes, we already went through this some time back.

Here's this (again):

 
"How does this reconcile with the mantra that SWOs are chronically overworked and sleep deprived? Curious to hear your thoughts."

I'll chime in while you wait for others. I noticed on all four of my surface ships that the ship as a whole was always at least one or two junior officers short. We'd get one or two reporting aboard and the people they relieved were already gone.

I agree that if SWOs aren't getting enough sleep, waaa, then why? Surely there's time for rack ops with all those bunks in boys town occupied. Doesn't make sense to me either.
I cross-posted with you and explained a bit.

When I was Ordnance Officer on a cruiser, I "had" the two missile launchers and two gun mounts along with over 20 magazines. Just doing my (supposedly) daily walk-throughs of each space, personally look at major maintenance/repairs on that gear as well as do the REQUIRED admin like Ammo Transaction Reports, the Ammo Ledger, Ammunition Ordering (its not done by supply) and, of course the evals and admin related to over 20 sailors in the division as well as prepare firing plans/briefs, ammo load plans/briefs, and combine that with required qualifying SWO and then maintaining quals. Whenever the ship was doing a major operation like gun/missile shoot, anchoring, transits, etc there were one or more briefings that I had to at least attend as well as other meetings etc. I also had collateral duties like being Special Services Officer - all ships teams and tours when in foreign ports. . .
Of course, I also stood watches, general quarters, etc.
 
I cross-posted with you and explained a bit.

When I was Ordnance Officer on a cruiser, I "had" the two missile launchers and two gun mounts along with over 20 magazines. Just doing my (supposedly) daily walk-throughs of each space, personally look at major maintenance/repairs on that gear as well as do the REQUIRED admin like Ammo Transaction Reports, the Ammo Ledger, Ammunition Ordering (its not done by supply) and, of course the evals and admin related to over 20 sailors in the division as well as prepare firing plans/briefs, ammo load plans/briefs, and combine that with required qualifying SWO and then maintaining quals. Whenever the ship was doing a major operation like gun/missile shoot, anchoring, transits, etc there were one or more briefings that I had to at least attend as well as other meetings etc. I also had collateral duties like being Special Services Officer - all ships teams and tours when in foreign ports. . .
Of course, I also stood watches, general quarters, etc.
What did you do with all your spare time?
 
What did you do with all your spare time?
Other collateral duties.
Postal Audit Board for a year.
Wardroom Mess Treasurer for a year - Getting everyone to pay for their meals is not easy
Oh and for EVERY man overboard drill I was either on the bridge or in the ship's boat which we launched for every M.O. Drill.
 
Other collateral duties.
Postal Audit Board for a year.
Wardroom Mess Treasurer for a year - Getting everyone to pay for their meals is not easy
Oh and for EVERY man overboard drill I was either on the bridge or in the ship's boat which we launched for every M.O. Drill.
Where you ever the bulk stock custodian for narcotics?
 
Other collateral duties.
Postal Audit Board for a year.
Wardroom Mess Treasurer for a year - Getting everyone to pay for their meals is not easy
Oh and for EVERY man overboard drill I was either on the bridge or in the ship's boat which we launched for every M.O. Drill.

Oh Wardroom Mess Treasurer…a JO rite of passage, even in the USCG. I can tell you I spent plenty of time prior to a patrol making sure I had exactly enough Ben & Jerry’s ice cream purchased to last a patrol in order to keep my CO and OPS happy. The things they don’t tell you about JO life.

I’ll add that extended maintenance periods, such as a dry dock period, also makes it difficult to get JOs the time they need to get qualified. There are typically 8 JOs assigned to the cutter class I was assigned to (6 DWOs & 2 Student Engineers). However, there were 12 of us plus 2 cadets for my first patrol. Why? The second year JOs weren’t qualified because the cutter had been in a major dockside with added delays for almost their whole first year. The command will try to mitigate that loss of training time by sendings JOs TDY to other cutters to get qualified but it’s not always possible. So, the command “requested” that two of the JOs who were supposed to PCS stay on for another patrol and brought 2 more in on a TDY to help get everyone qualified. Of course, because life is a cycle, the focus went to the second year JOs and then my year group lost driving time. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Then, there are the major inspections to pass - the CG’s is TSTA, a 3 week long slog of drill after drill. testing everyone from gunnery exercises to LE tactics to navigation and damage control. For my cutter, the command assigned all the JOs to specific positions about a month out from our TSTA to get some practice in. I was TAD to a mandatory school for division-related responsibilities during that time and was kept off of navigation assignments because of it. After TSTA, my CO decided to keep that roster as a set roster for every drill, evolution, and transit in/out of port. Needless to say, I didn’t get much driving time once that decision was made, but I did get a lot of time learning and running the OPS/OOD side of things vice conning.

All that to say, it’s not just the Navy that struggles. It’s one of the hazards of OJT.
 
I have no naval experience. But from everything I have heard and read, it would seem that officers running a ship get little or no acknowledgment for doing the job right. But gosh forbid the slightest thing goes wrong and they get crucified. I have a civilian job that is very much like that. It can be very tough on morale. It makes you focus on never making a mistake, but discourages you from trying to excel. So, no wonder why many burn out and quit.
 
I have no naval experience. But from everything I have heard and read, it would seem that officers running a ship get little or no acknowledgment for doing the job right. But gosh forbid the slightest thing goes wrong and they get crucified.
My former brother-in-law was a USAF missile officer based in Wyoming. Similar issue, I think, with that role: Do your job well (i.e. no nuclear accidents or mistaken launches) and no one notices. Make an error and the world may still not know (national security and all that) or the world may not care (because it’s been pulverized). You literally have the power to destroy the world — or not — yet few know you exist or the awesome responsibility you possess. Helps explain the very high rate of attrition, divorces and suicides. Sad.
 
Is there a similar issue on subs?
Not really/as much. The sub training track is much more comprehensive and the Navy does not send more junior officers to the subs than the subs can train.
 
As the father of a new SWO candidate, who is excited to get out to his first ship, the two threads on this topic are very interesting. DS was telling me about the competition for time to get qualifications while he was still in ROTC. It sounds like there is, in part, a self defeating cycle at play, where the Navy is over commissioning SWOs to make up for the high attrition, which causes decreased hands on opportunities, leading to lower job satisfaction and high attrition and on and on.

On a side note, I find it interesting that in 2021 the Navy is still using a paper qualification book instead of a digital log with digital signatures. It seems this could be more easily carried around and the qualifications could be uploaded to a server. This would allow easier analysis of the data in these logs as well. DS had a friend who graduated a year before him who had their car burglarized and qualification book was among the items stolen. The qualifications were over halfway completed. I can only imagine the feeling of having to go back and get everything signed off again.
 
My former brother-in-law was a USAF missile officer based in Wyoming. Similar issue, I think, with that role: Do your job well (i.e. no nuclear accidents or mistaken launches) and no one notices. Make an error and the world may still not know (national security and all that) or the world may not care (because it’s been pulverized). You literally have the power to destroy the world — or not — yet few know you exist or the awesome responsibility you possess. Helps explain the very high rate of attrition, divorces and suicides. Sad.
The only good thing about being a Misslier because getting a bonus for being one, is that it gives you plenty of time to get your masters degree
 
From today's WSJ:

If War Comes, Will the U.S. Navy Be Prepared?​

A new report details a culture of bureaucracy and risk-aversion that is corroding readiness.


Is the U.S. Navy ready for war? A new report prepared by Marine Lt. Gen. Robert Schmidle and Rear Adm. Mark Montgomery, both retired, for members of Congress paints a portrait of the Navy as an institution adrift. The report, first reported by the Journal and commissioned by Sen. Tom Cotton, Reps. Mike Gallagher, Dan Crenshaw and Jim Banks, concludes that the surface Navy is not focused on preparing for war and is weathering a crisis in leadership and culture.


The impetus for the report was a series of recent catastrophes—a ship burning in San Diego last year; two destroyer collisions in the Pacific in 2017. Were these isolated events? Or did they indicate “larger institutional issues that are degrading the performance of the entire naval surface force”? The report surveyed active and recently retired service members of various ranks, conducting 77 candid hourlong interviews. A key finding: “Many sailors found their leadership distracted, captive to bureaucratic excess, and rewarded for the successful execution of administrative functions” rather than core competencies of war.
“I guarantee you every unit in the Navy is up to speed on their diversity training,” said one recently retired senior enlisted leader. “I’m sorry that I can’t say the same of their ship-handling training.”
Adm. Montgomery told me in an interview over the weekend that when he was a junior officer in the 1980s there was “an intense focus” on a likely confrontation with the Soviet navy—learning about classes of ships or the missiles aboard. After decades without a peer adversary at sea, “the same focus is not permeating the Navy today.”


The Navy has improved its pipeline for surface-warfare officers since the 2017 collisions, reversing a 2003 money-saving mistake of training junior officers by giving them 23 compact discs loaded with reading material. But the Navy doesn’t spend the money and time training surface warfare officers that it does submariners or aviators, and has revamped training so many times, usually in an effort to spend even less money, that commanding officers are left with “inconsistent, often ill-prepared wardrooms.”

im-367651

Navy Midshipmen salute at the Naval Academy Graduation and Commissioning Ceremony in Annapolis, Md., May 28.​

PHOTO: KEVIN DIETSCH/GETTY IMAGES
Civilian Pentagon appointees of both parties have been poor stewards of the surface Navy’s capabilities. The report estimates that 20 ships a year are extended on deployment, and keeping them at sea creates “a host of problems.” The ship is late to postdeployment maintenance, which can mess up the yard’s schedule for work on other ships. Longer deployments tend to mean more repairs, and delays can cut into training time.
The report also details a deep culture of risk aversion: If the missiles start flying, will a destroyer captain be ready to make quick decisions and take calculated risks, even if his communications are jammed and he can’t reach his superiors?
Historically, ship captains couldn’t reach the higher-ups while at sea and had to make decisions on their own. The price of absolute authority was “the cruel business of accountability,” as a 1952 editorial in this newspaper called it. Now admirals can micromanage “from the comfort of terrestrial headquarters,” as the report puts it. A ship captain quoted in the report recalled his experience of escorting ships through the Strait of Hormuz. “Every single time I knew in the back of my head” that admirals “were literally watching the cameras on my ship second-guessing every single thing I did.”



Commanders have less authority but brutal accountability. In the report, sailors expressed “near universal disdain” for a “one mistake Navy” that defenestrates leaders who make an error. It’s a “drag on retention, lethality and morale.” Former Navy Secretary John Lehman ticks off in the report the five-star admirals who won World War II and their mistakes: Bill Halsey “was constantly getting in trouble for bending the rules or drinking too much”; Chester Nimitz “put his first command on the rocks”; Ernie King was “a womanizer.” They were punished at times, but Navy leadership always realized “these were very, very promising” officers. None, he concludes, could have made it past captain in today’s Navy.
Note also an illustration that captured this mentality in practice from a recent piece in Proceedings magazine. During an overseas exercise (the article doesn’t say when), a U.S. destroyer and a British frigate “traded some paint,” a minor run-in. “The next day at a gunnery exercise, the British ship was on the gun line, and the U.S. ship was headed to port to embark the investigation team.”

Then there is the unhealthy fear of bad publicity. After negative news stories, the report found, “the senior ranks are perceived as quick to sacrifice junior personnel” to save their own tails. Discipline is “bent to the unsteady whims of public perception, not the Navy’s own standards and regulations.”
A command master chief told sailors to “clap like we’re at a strip club” when Vice President Mike Pence came aboard the carrier. He resigned, his 30-year career ending after one misjudgment. Admirals “hide in foxholes at the first sight of Military.com and the Military Times,” said one intelligence officer.
China will be the big topic when Carlos Del Toro, President Biden’s nominee for Navy secretary, appears before the Senate Armed Services Committee on Tuesday. Perhaps Mr. Del Toro, a former destroyer captain, can shake the Navy awake. As the new report notes in closing, there isn’t much time for learning once war is under way.
Mrs. Odell is an editorial writer for the Journal.
 
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