“Why Can’t the Navy Keep its Surface Warfare Officers?”

Reading this thread does not give me great feelings as my DS, being in the Class of 2025 wants to follow the SWO path. Now he has a long way to go, may change path after PROTRAMID and needs to be selected, but this still does not give Dad warm and fuzzies.
 
Reading this thread does not give me great feelings as my DS, being in the Class of 2025 wants to follow the SWO path. Now he has a long way to go, may change path after PROTRAMID and needs to be selected, but this still does not give Dad warm and fuzzies.
You will have no shortage of "warm fuzzies" between now and May 2025. As well, you'll not be able to ward off moments of trepidation as you read about instances of pathologies that affect all large bureaucratic institutions, including the Military. That's how I felt from day 1 of AROTC orientation until about 48 hours ago, talking to my Army O-3 DS.

The warmest of all fuzzies is witnessing your DS successfully navigate those choppy waters without your help.

Best of luck to him!
 
Reading this thread does not give me great feelings as my DS, being in the Class of 2025 wants to follow the SWO path. Now he has a long way to go, may change path after PROTRAMID and needs to be selected, but this still does not give Dad warm and fuzzies.
When I initially read those articles I confess to feeling the same way about our 2024. But, after a day or two, I came to believe that there have always been things that could be improved upon since the birth of the Navy, or any branch of service for that matter. Hopefully, they are making decisions that will help improve things they know need tweaking. I'm choosing to believe that we raised smart kiddos who are getting top-notch training and will trust the person to their left and their right.
 
Reading this thread does not give me great feelings as my DS, being in the Class of 2025 wants to follow the SWO path.
Every warfare community has its issues and challenges. Surface warfare happens to be the punching bag du jour.
 
I know my DS will learn about the SWO opportunities as he goes through the Academy, but is there a resource for his old man to go read up on the different jobs/roles that a SWO could be doing? As non-navy guy, I would love to see what his opportunities could be so we can have meaningful talks. To me the term SWO seems as generic as the term Engineer. There are 100's, if not 1000's of "Engineer" jobs even if I set aside the engineers that drive trains!
 
I know my DS will learn about the SWO opportunities as he goes through the Academy, but is there a resource for his old man to go read up on the different jobs/roles that a SWO could be doing? As non-navy guy, I would love to see what his opportunities could be so we can have meaningful talks. To me the term SWO seems as generic as the term Engineer. There are 100's, if not 1000's of "Engineer" jobs even if I set aside the engineers that drive trains!
Nevermind...😬...answered my own question using the "search" function on this site....https://www.serviceacademyforums.com/index.php?threads/what-does-are-the-most-common-jobs-swos-have-and-what-has-the-most-opportunity-for-advancement.73427/#post-722456
 
I know my DS will learn about the SWO opportunities as he goes through the Academy, but is there a resource for his old man to go read up on the different jobs/roles that a SWO could be doing? As non-navy guy, I would love to see what his opportunities could be so we can have meaningful talks. To me the term SWO seems as generic as the term Engineer. There are 100's, if not 1000's of "Engineer" jobs even if I set aside the engineers that drive trains!
DS just commissions as a SWO(N). Below are a few links to get you started. these were taken from a simple Google search for "Navy SWO". As a general rule SWOs are generalists, meaning they do not train for one particular specialty area, navigation, weapons, damage control, engineering, etc. Upon commissioning and reporting to their first ship, they would be assigned as a division head to one of the divisions on the ship, based on where they are needed. There are some exceptions to this, as there are several subtypes of SWOs. My DS is SWO(N); the (N) is for nuclear. Once he finished BDOC (Basic Division Officer Course) and JOOD (Junior Officer of the Deck) courses, he will report to his first ship and be there until he earns his SWO warfare pin. He will then report to nuclear propulsion and nuclear prototype training. Once he completes that he would be assigned to the engineering department on a carrier. His sea tours would alternate between engineering on a carrier and any other department on a conventionally powered ship. There are other "flavors" of SWO as well that your DS will learn about.
 
DS just commissions as a SWO(N). Below are a few links to get you started. these were taken from a simple Google search for "Navy SWO". As a general rule SWOs are generalists, meaning they do not train for one particular specialty area, navigation, weapons, damage control, engineering, etc. Upon commissioning and reporting to their first ship, they would be assigned as a division head to one of the divisions on the ship, based on where they are needed. There are some exceptions to this, as there are several subtypes of SWOs. My DS is SWO(N); the (N) is for nuclear. Once he finished BDOC (Basic Division Officer Course) and JOOD (Junior Officer of the Deck) courses, he will report to his first ship and be there until he earns his SWO warfare pin. He will then report to nuclear propulsion and nuclear prototype training. Once he completes that he would be assigned to the engineering department on a carrier. His sea tours would alternate between engineering on a carrier and any other department on a conventionally powered ship. There are other "flavors" of SWO as well that your DS will learn about.
Thank you for this, my 3/C as of now is leaning toward SWO(N).

But, who knows, for the next 24 hours he is currently somewhere I don't know about in a vessel with a periscope, going places I don't know about--- so he could change his mind.
 
There are other "flavors" of SWO as well that your DS will learn about.
Actually just SWO and SWO (N) are the only subcommunities within Surface Warfare. Some mids might SERVICE SELECT SWO (IP), SWO EDO) or something like that but IP and EDO are not subsets of SWO, those mids go SWO for one tour and then disappear from the SWO community to other Naval Officer specialties that want their folks to be a little salty when they start off in the community.
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Of course that is true as of now. There have been many discussions for decades on the topic of having SWO specialty tracks such as Engineering, Combat Systems, etc and they have been pretty active lately and there is a successful model of it in the Royal Navy.
 
Actually just SWO and SWO (N) are the only subcommunities within Surface Warfare. Some mids might SERVICE SELECT SWO (IP), SWO EDO) or something like that but IP and EDO are not subsets of SWO, those mids go SWO for one tour and then disappear from the SWO community to other Naval Officer specialties that want their folks to be a little salty when they start off in the community.
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Of course that is true as of now. There have been many discussions for decades on the topic of having SWO specialty tracks such as Engineering, Combat Systems, etc and they have been pretty active lately and there is a successful model of it in the Royal Navy.
Thank you for the correction. I must have misunderstood DS when he was explaining that part to me.
 
Thank you for the correction. I must have misunderstood DS when he was explaining that part to me.
He might not be clear on it himself. I'm a career SWO and have kept up with the career path. Mids could very well
not really understand that service selection options like SWO (IP) are not SWO specialties but instead one way doors out of SWO
 
Actually just SWO and SWO (N) are the only subcommunities within Surface Warfare. Some mids might SERVICE SELECT SWO (IP), SWO EDO) or something like that but IP and EDO are not subsets of SWO, those mids go SWO for one tour and then disappear from the SWO community to other Naval Officer specialties that want their folks to be a little salty when they start off in the community.
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Of course that is true as of now. There have been many discussions for decades on the topic of having SWO specialty tracks such as Engineering, Combat Systems, etc and they have been pretty active lately and there is a successful model of it in the Royal Navy.
He might not be clear on it himself. I'm a career SWO and have kept up with the career path. Mids could very well
not really understand that service selection options like SWO (IP) are not SWO specialties but instead one way doors out of SWO
Good point. Many serving officers conflate Restricted Line and Staff Corps, so it would not be surprising if midshipmen at this early stage have a hazy idea of how officer communities can work, especially the SWO first, then laterally transfer to another completely different community, model.
 
He might not be clear on it himself. I'm a career SWO and have kept up with the career path. Mids could very well
not really understand that service selection options like SWO (IP) are not SWO specialties but instead one way doors out of SWO
So are these the options that lead outside of SWO path....
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So are these the options that lead outside of SWO path....
View attachment 9796
No, except for the “nuclear option,” which is still a flavor of SWO. The rest are community aspirational attributes.

Here is a list of the Navy officer communities, the major categories and the communities within them. Have fun with the drop-down menus.


You will also see the term “designator.” This is a 4-digit number associated with each community. You can ask a Navy officer, “What’s your designator?” as easily as you would “What warfare community are you in?”

The designators, similar to a vehicle VIN, can reveal different things. Any designator starting with a “1” is either unrestricted or restricted line officer. If it starts with a number other than 1, that’s Staff Corps or CWO/LDO (specialized technical types of commissions for those with enlisted backgrounds). If it ends in a zero, your commission is active; with a 5, the commission is a Reserve commission (but you could be on active duty, a tutorial for another day). Before you get your warfare pin, you start out with one designator; after you qualify, your designator is updated. For example, a newly commissioned officer heading for SWO will be an 1160 (1 for line officer, 0 for active commission); after they qualify for their SWO pin in 1.5 years or so, they will be 1110. If they separate from the Navy and go into the Reserve, they become 1115.

There are some Officer communities in the Navy which are not direct accession, generally speaking (it’s the military, exceptions are always out there), meaning you don’t enter the community right after commissioning, but via a program where you go SWO first to earn that pin and at a designated time, you laterally transfer to the other community (yes, more designator changes,) and proceed with qualifying in that community, OR, if not in a pre-designated program, apply to the annual lateral transfer/re-designation boards when eligible, competing for a slot in another warfare community.

Advanced reading assignment, may be a quiz later, Officer designators.

 
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This from a retired captain. He wrote it on the FB page of our first ship. The "Boston" reference was a yard period. I checked onboard after Boston. @OldRetSWO has written on here about junior SWOs and being in the shipyard and then going to sea and having to get qualified in all the SWO jobs. This officer is reflecting on his first ship and life as a new officer. He was at one time my DivO and did a great job.

"We had a great ships crew that went through a terrible period in Boston. We were all tested. The entire crew did a great job of coping with the 9+ junior officers who were learning to be officers, our role and responsibilities and learning how to be a mentor and leader to those in our charge. Some of us longer than others. I hold all of you in high regard!!"
 
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