2 Tickets Affecting Appointment?

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by USNA2023NJ, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. swrakow

    swrakow Member

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    You're welcome.

    Not sure how you practice in SC, but when you have a golden ticket to USNA, why risk it on a minor traffic violation - or any violation - when you can hire someone to help guide you through it? Just trying to help the kid out.

    BTW - No law enforcement officer in MD can make a decision to pull a citation. That's a great way for the officer to get fired. Asking an officer to do that is not good for his case and can backfire.
     
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  2. SCMids

    SCMids Member

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    Perhaps I should have written, "If you hadn't said it earlier, I would know anyway."
     
  3. A1Janitor

    A1Janitor Member

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    In New York, the time to work with the officer is when he is issuing it. Once issued, you have to contact the DA.
     
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  4. SCMids

    SCMids Member

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    Then the LEO tells him that, but he also can say he'll talk to the judge. Columbia, SC won't reduce the fines in court, but the Muni judge has other options. Most local jurisdictions here require senior level approval for the LEO to make a change prior to court, but it happens.

    With one or two exceptions, jurisdictions here will work with a kid with no priors. You don't want to be a local judge who doesn't.
     
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  5. SCMids

    SCMids Member

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    Then that's what you do.

    Officers prosecute here.
     
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  6. A1Janitor

    A1Janitor Member

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    Officers are witnesses here.

    When I got pulled over speeding with my kids in the car bringing my daughter to college orientation, I was going 35 in a 55. He said I was going 75 in a 55.

    He tried to pull in front of me in heavy traffic and got mad because he couldn’t maneuver in. He said he was guessing my speed - didn’t have radar.

    I was respectful, he wrote ticket, and when handing it to me he admitted that I might be right. My kids were witnesses.

    I went to court without an attorney. The DA offered me a 100 dollar course to dismiss it. I said no I was innocent. Went to trial. Cop lied. I lost.
     
  7. swrakow

    swrakow Member

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    Sadly, and while this is way off topic, I've found that most judges weigh the credibility of law enforcement higher than the average citizen. Sorry you lost.
     
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  8. A1Janitor

    A1Janitor Member

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    It makes up for the many times I sped. ;)
     
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  9. Overwhelmed

    Overwhelmed Member

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    I would meet with the prosecutor prior to the court date. Show the prosecutor your appointment and ask for mercy. If you are sincere they will work with you.
    I was involved in a case years ago where I agreed to downgrade charges for a young man enlisting in the Army.
    I figured in the long run everybody would be better served with that decision.
     
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  10. SCMids

    SCMids Member

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    I think the vast majority of judges trust the LEO's who appear in front of them weekly, and if you've got one who will lie, you're usually screwed. We had one nearby that routinely lied until that time the accused was smarter. Long story short, the judge had him escorted through the side door in contempt. Fired the next day. I learned about it because he had written me a ticket for driving left of center -- about 2 feet on an unmarked road where he and I were the only two on the road. He got mad when I took a picture of the pothole I had avoided and stood in front of his camera and casually asked him, "Didn't you avoid it as well?" He didn't answer. Believe me. I was ready for my hearing. Then, I got word he wouldn't be making it to court.
     
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  11. A1Janitor

    A1Janitor Member

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    I almost paid 300 for a lie detector test ... the judge wouldn’t have allowed it so I didn’t.

    If I was guilty I would have paid the 100 dollars. That was a fair deal.

    Which is nonsense. A careful reading of the SC decision says they aren’t allowed because it could help put an innocent man behind bars. Certainly cops use them in the investigative phase to make decisions in investigations. If it exonerates me - it should be allowed.
     
  12. SCMids

    SCMids Member

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    The single biggest jerk I've ever met is a local cop. He's got lots of complaints in his file for the way he treats people he stops. Here's the irony -- he always works with people, particularly kids, if community service is involved. You better take it, though. The judges always take his recommendations and believe his testimony.
     
  13. SCMids

    SCMids Member

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    Yep. Just ask the cop how he views lie detector results. If he tells the truth, how can he dispute your use of it?
     
  14. brewmeist

    brewmeist Member

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    USNA2023NJ, I would contact your BGO. Own up to it, and be proactive. Your BGO will hopefully give you further advice. You don't want USNA finding out some other way (and they will).
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  15. justdoit19

    justdoit19 Member

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    OP, you also need to realize you do have a lot to loose. There is a whole 4year training to ultimately be an officer in the worlds best Navy at stake here. Time to start adulting. You are special. One of thousands wanting to be in your shoes. While senior year, 2nd semester especially, can be a carefree mess of stupid choices and decisions, yours cannot be that way. Not saying you cannot have fun, but you do need to be cognizant of the fact you have a lot to loose and not take unnecessary risks going forward. You are not part of the class of ‘23 until you raise your hand and say I DO on IDay. Stay forward thinking and work towards your goal. Have fun, but be smart.

    And about that ticket? I would advise talking with your parents and BGO about how to proceed. It’s obviously different in different parts of the country. But yes there is no way to hide it from USNA. BTW my own junior received one for speeding on his way to church just last weekend. Makes me nauseous thinking about how fast he was going. He is signing it and paying the fine. And I hope he learned a lesson (I suspect he has...)
     
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  16. SCMids

    SCMids Member

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    I did it. I owned it. I accepted the consequences. Bet that's all USNA wants to hear about this.

    Do something else, and that's another story.
     
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  17. Old Navy BGO

    Old Navy BGO 5-Year Member

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    I'm gonna go with the middle ground here... I get THParent's response. That is exactly how a Parent should respond when their kid comes home with a ticket and quibbles about responsibility.

    The question then becomes, what is the outcome "your client should get?". The issue here really isn't whether OP committed the offense, unless of course you can show a legitimate defense to the speeding charge. (Hint, if a police officer with a good reputation shows up before the judge, and tells the story about kids being out after curfew and one sticking his head out probably being a smarta$$-- no attorney is going to get you off the charge, and any chance at leniency is lost). I'm assuming these are minor offenses in your jurisdiction, and if that is the case...accept responsibility, dont quibble and don't make excuses. This is one where the 6th basic response (you will learn the first 5 on Iday, but the 6th .." I screwed up (or variations thereof)" is often the most effective) is appropriate.

    The issue then becomes damage control, or mitigating the effect of your screw up. BGO's really aren't trained to tell you what to do, and in todays "zero defect" Navy, I am reluctant to even venture a guess. However, absent some other element (alcohol, resisting , or being a smarta$$ to the police officer), I would hope this won't have any impact on Admissions. That being said, if you have a relationship with a good attorney, it can't hurt to talk with them and see if they could put in a good word with the local County or City attorney (or whomever prosecutes traffic tickets in your jurisdiction.). If the attorney has a good relationship with the County Attorney, paying them to put in a good word and perhaps making an informal arrangement like community service for a deferred conviction etc. is possible. You will still likely have to report the police interaction on your PTR or Security clearances but shouldn't have much impact.

    IS this the outcome "your client should get ? " I've done it for friends and clients, over the years, but not in the context of an USNA appointment. It's really not a legal defense, but merely using a relationship to get a more favorable outcome for your friends and clients. I've never particularly liked doing it --particularly when it is for the son/daughter of a wealthy client , as I think its teaching them the wrong lesson ...bringing me all the way back to THParent's comment, which I agree with.
     
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  18. Impulsive

    Impulsive Member

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    I generally agree with most of the above....talk to the Prosecutor and Officer and see what can be done BEFORE your scheduled court appearance. My experience was most if not all Police Officers are good people, and do not set out to hurt someone, but to protect the public. If you were to let them both know you have a appointment to a SA and that the "Careless Driving" could effect that (the minor restriction violation likely will not) generally they will be able to work with you, possibly even with PTI programs, that once you complete them your record is expunged and clean.

    Worth trying before paying an attorney to do the exact same thing, and a lot of times attorneys come across wrong to Police Officers.
     
  19. FutureAdademyDad?

    FutureAdademyDad? Member

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    If you are guilty of the infractions, then own it and face the consequences. Period. Personal responsibility has costs. That is something our society forgets, or ignores, all too often. What makes Midshipmen special is their commitment to the following:

    Midshipmen are persons of integrity: They stand for that which is right.
    They tell the truth and ensure that the truth is known.
    They do not lie.

    They embrace fairness in all actions. They ensure that work submitted as their own is their own, and that assistance received from any source is authorized and properly documented.
    They do not cheat.

    They respect the property of others and ensure that others are able to benefit from the use of their own property.
    They do not steal.

    Notice it doesn't say anything about not making mistakes. You made a mistake, you got busted for it, now own it, learn from it, and move on.
     
  20. A1Janitor

    A1Janitor Member

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    Calling an attorney to represent you or representing yourself and pleading your case for a plea bargain/dismissal is owning it.

    It is not lying. It is not cheating.

    Period.
     
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