2 Tickets Affecting Appointment?

This is all great advice, but one of the questions asked by the OP is if the original charge needs to be reported to USNA if reduced. As I read the instructions for the Police Record Check, it looks it would need to be reported, but it is not perfectly clear. If the original charges are reduced or even dropped, they still physically exist and are public record. Or are they? This is why I feel the OP should be upfront with USNA regardless of what is done within the legal system.
Good point! But I would meet with the lawyer first and get more information regarding the citations. In both my friend’s cases the citations were completely dropped from their record as if they never happened.
 

A1Janitor

Banned
This is all great advice, but one of the questions asked by the OP is if the original charge needs to be reported to USNA if reduced. As I read the instructions for the Police Record Check, it looks it would need to be reported, but it is not perfectly clear. If the original charges are reduced or even dropped, they still physically exist and are public record. Or are they? This is why I feel the OP should be upfront with USNA regardless of what is done within the legal system.
Good point! But I would meet with the lawyer first and get more information regarding the citations. In both my friend’s cases the citations were completely dropped from their record as if they never happened.
That’s what happens in NYS.

At that point it becomes an ethical question to report.

I would report it to the BGO like this “I was speeding and driving past 9 pm. It was a mistake, but the authorities agreed it was a minor offense and it was dismissed as if it never happened. I have learned my lesson - and I offered to do community service although it wasn’t required. I wanted to report this to you.”
 

Impulsive

Member
As for the Security Clearance issue, if I remember right (it has been a few years) for anything above "Confidential", the questions are "have you ever been" with the question and some of them deal with "minor" infractions. More than driving after hours or even "careless driving" the investigators are more worried about finances and your ability to be compromised, as well as a recurrent theme of for lack of a better term being "dumb"....ie: multiple violations of traffic laws, altercations in school, discipline issues, or anything else that would lead an investigator to think you don't use you head when sometimes.

What they worry about is you spouting off at the mouth out with friends or a history of bad judgment or something in your history that could lead you open to blackmail or outside pressure to reveal something you shouldn't. Not that you would, but those are things an investigator would want answers to before granting you a Secret or above clearance.
 

kinnem

Moderator
5-Year Member
This is all great advice, but one of the questions asked by the OP is if the original charge needs to be reported to USNA if reduced. As I read the instructions for the Police Record Check, it looks it would need to be reported, but it is not perfectly clear. If the original charges are reduced or even dropped, they still physically exist and are public record. Or are they? This is why I feel the OP should be upfront with USNA regardless of what is done within the legal system.
It's my understanding, only based on my years following this forum, that the original charges need to be reported. It will also be the original charges that are reported when the police record is sent to the academy, EVEN WHEN THE HAVE BEEN EXPUNGED FROM THE RECORD. Other searches of the records would not see it if it's expunged but the academies and security checks get the original charges. Keep in mind this is based on what I have read on these forums. It might be worth a search or questioning someone more authoritative.
 

Impulsive

Member
@kinnem, you are right. As I said the questions and/or the investigator will ask "have you ever been" not "were you ever convicted" although those are on there to and will automatically DQ you from any type of clearance if have been convicted of even a 1st degree misdemeanor involving drinking or a crime of violence.
 

Korab

Member
In my area ... the judges also have private practices.

So you hire a judge from an area court to represent you in another court. Quit pro quo. He gets a deal for you. When that judge is in front of him, he gets a deal. Or the prosecutor is more lenient.

It pisses me off.
In NY, where you say you are located, part time judges who are lawyers are prohibited from appearing in front of other part time judges who are lawyers for this exact reason.

There is a lot of terrible advise in this thread.

Based on his/her screen name, the OP is in NJ. Anecdotal stories about how things are handled in SC or Georgia are useless. S/he should immediately obtain a NJ lawyer who regularly handles traffic matters in that court and do everything they can to get the charges reduced or dismissed. A conviction for a traffic infraction is probably no big deal, but a misdemeanor conviction could impact security clearances or even your appointment. There is nothing unethical about hiring a lawyer and negotiating charges. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.
 
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A1Janitor

Banned
In my area ... the judges also have private practices.

So you hire a judge from an area court to represent you in another court. Quit pro quo. He gets a deal for you. When that judge is in front of him, he gets a deal. Or the prosecutor is more lenient.

It pisses me off.
In NY, where you say you are located, part time judges who are lawyers are prohibited from appearing in front of other part time judges who are lawyers for this exact reason.
Yup. ;)

It’s a nasty good old boy network. I have evidence.

Generally speaking ... they don’t appear. They make phone calls.
 

justdoit19

Member
It all has to be handled exactly as asked and questioned. Exactly for the point above, regarding security clearance in the future. Honestly answering questions as asked, as discussed above, are imperative. You do NOT want anything popping up in the future that can put you int the place of defending yourself as a Mid. However that works....I’m a mom. But I would not want my child trying to defend himself in front of an honor board, if that’s how these things play out. Its a good point that there is this initial reporting that may or may not be required for an appointment, and then there is the other element of the police records check form that’s to be filled out (by your police department) in the PTR. And the 3rd element of the security clearances (of which I know absolutely nothing about).

DS (plebe) had a speeding ticket that he reported in all places required. So he has no fear of it (or anything else) rising up and biting him in the rear end going forward. Honesty is hands down the best policy, IMO. A person could get things pleaded down to different offenses, even perhaps to the point it wouldn’t fit the the criteria of “have you ever been convicted...” but not “have you ever...”. IMO.
 

Korab

Member
In my area ... the judges also have private practices.

So you hire a judge from an area court to represent you in another court. Quit pro quo. He gets a deal for you. When that judge is in front of him, he gets a deal. Or the prosecutor is more lenient.

It pisses me off.
In NY, where you say you are located, part time judges who are lawyers are prohibited from appearing in front of other part time judges who are lawyers for this exact reason.
Yup. ;)

It’s a nasty good old boy network. I have evidence.

Generally speaking ... they don’t appear. They make phone calls.
Then report them so they can be removed from the bench and disciplined. Its a bright line rule - absolutely prohibited.
 

cptenca

Member
Minor traffic violations are not reported on a police record (no one here knows whether his/her violations are considered minor and less than $300). Hopefully the OP stopped reading this thread and sought actual advise from someone qualified to give it. I posted the questions from the SF 86 that the OP will be asked for security clearances OTHER THAN MINOR TRAFFIC OFFENSES, HAVE YOU EVER? Some of the advice in this thread is more criminal than the original post.
 

A1Janitor

Banned
Minor traffic violations are not reported on a police record (no one here knows whether his/her violations are considered minor and less than $300). Hopefully the OP stopped reading this thread and sought actual advise from someone qualified to give it. I posted the questions from the SF 86 that the OP will be asked for security clearances OTHER THAN MINOR TRAFFIC OFFENSES, HAVE YOU EVER? Some of the advice in this thread is more criminal than the original post.
LMAO thank God I’m anonymous! I don’t need to fight any more charges. ;)
 

brewmeist

Member
Minor traffic violations are not reported on a police record (no one here knows whether his/her violations are considered minor and less than $300). Hopefully the OP stopped reading this thread and sought actual advise from someone qualified to give it. I posted the questions from the SF 86 that the OP will be asked for security clearances OTHER THAN MINOR TRAFFIC OFFENSES, HAVE YOU EVER? Some of the advice in this thread is more criminal than the original post.
I agree that this thread has taken off in all different directions, and I absolutely agree that the OP should get advise from somebody who knows what they are talking about and not from an anonymous forum. I am looking at the Police Record Check form right now. The directions state "The Police Record Check is intended to identify and disclose minor traffic and non-traffic violations of the law." Section II, Question 11 asks "Does the applicant have a police or juvenile record, to include minor traffic violations? (If yes, please provide details of any charges and their outcomes)"
 

OldRetSWO

USNA 78/parent 11/BGO for >25yrs
5-Year Member
There has been a lot of bickering back and forth here along with suppositions using rules from other states.

The facts here are that the OP was handed a summons for Careless Driving and curfew violation.
1. Neither of them are misdemeanors in NJ, they are minor offenses.
2. To the posters who are bringing up the maximum fine issue for reporting as an offense, here is what Careless Driving entails:
In New Jersey careless driving is not a serious offense, but it can have collateral consequences. ... If you
have been charged with careless driving, you face a fine of $50 to $200, up to 15 days in jail, $33 court costs,
and 2 points on your license.
3. Asking or involving a lawyer is absolutely allowable. Servicepeople (and pre-servicepeople) do not give up their constitutional
rights to representation. I have a very good understanding of the Honor Concept at USNA and having representation along
with negotiation is NOT against the USNA Honor system.
4. As a BGO, if one of my candidates came to me with this exact situation, I'd shrug my shoulders as there is no clear course of action
evident to me. In my opinion, a minor traffic violation such as this is not a reportable incident. If it was reported to me, I might make
pulse my Area Coordinator but I'm even reluctant to do that in a case like this.
 
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