IFT for pilots is only a month long? Also, does this time table also apply to ENJJPT selects?
2017 AFROTC Rated Selection Thread
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Curious about something. I know the year you spend in UPT doesnt count as part of your 10 years commitment, but does the casual time count?
Also if UPT has gone from 24-30 students, doesnt that kind of screw over chances of getting fighter/bomber training. With more people in each group, doesnt it become harder to compete for the top spots? I dont know exactly how it works, but let say the top five get their choice of whatever they want. If you have 10 groups of 24, there will be 50 people who can choose whatever they want. However, if you reduce the number of classes to 8 but increase the size to 30, you would only get 40 spots. I understand that they arent going to reduce the number of classes, just increase the size. However technically they are reducing the number of classes because in the smaller class, 50 out of 240 people would get a spot. In the bigger class, only 40 out of 240 could get a top spot . Or am i seeing this wrong. Not complaining, just curious
Also if UPT has gone from 24-30 students, doesnt that kind of screw over chances of getting fighter/bomber training. With more people in each group, doesnt it become harder to compete for the top spots? I dont know exactly how it works, but let say the top five get their choice of whatever they want. If you have 10 groups of 24, there will be 50 people who can choose whatever they want. However, if you reduce the number of classes to 8 but increase the size to 30, you would only get 40 spots. I understand that they arent going to reduce the number of classes, just increase the size. However technically they are reducing the number of classes because in the smaller class, 50 out of 240 people would get a spot. In the bigger class, only 40 out of 240 could get a top spot . Or am i seeing this wrong. Not complaining, just curious
AlphaAlphaSigma
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IFT is about a month long program with people being able to graduate in three weeks if they know their stuff really well and the weather cooperates. I know a ENJJPT guy that EAD'ed the same time as me and has only started IFT. Also went to IFT with an ENJJPT guy who started UPT in January. Understand that the Air Force wants to have a near even spread of backgrounds (OTS, reserve, Academy, ROTC) for each UPT class. Since the majority of people from Academy and ROTC graduate in the summer we are given a wide variety of casual time.
You sign a official document that states your commitment starts the day you earn your wings. Casual time doesn't count. Now what you said is correct a larger class and a nearly same amount of T-38 instructors will mean a slimmer chance of getting fighters. B-1s and B-52s are slowly being dropped from T-1 pilots so bombers isn't much of an issue for those who want it. I'm not sure where you are getting those numbers but here are the hard ones. 30 students per class and 15 classes in a fiscal year. Of those 30, 8-10 will get T-38s (and it includes the international students and reserve guys). Sometimes bases can trade each other T-38s if a class is deemed good enough but 8-10 seems to be the current norm. Subtract the 2 internationals per class and an average of 3-4 reserve guys you have 25 people competing for potentially 6-8 T-38 slots. That ranges from 1/4 to 1/3 of the class. That's good in the eyes of the Air Force as they still want top quality performers to become fighter pilots and that's what the Air Force ultimately cares about.
Thanks for information . I was just making up numbers to use for my example . I find using numbers help when giving examples even if the amounts aren't correct
AlphaAlphaSigma
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Going back to the root question. Right now is a great environment to get fighters. Ten years ago it was the top 1/3 of the T-38 class that got fighters. Now, you have to be non-rec'ed fighters to not get fighters as a T-38 stud. CAF definitely needs more fighters coming out of UPT so bombers are slowly being transitioned from coming out of T-38s to T-1s. Don't expect this to change as we face a shortage of senior pilots and one way to alleviate it is to bring in more young guys and push up the high performing leaders.
Pima
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Here are some of the last drops. (Feb 26th)
Vance 17-06
T-38s
F-35
F-22
F-16 X 4
F-16 Iraq
T1s
C-17 Travis
C-17 Charleston
C-5M Dover
CV-22 Hurlburt field
EC-130 DM
C-17 Charleston
KC-135 MacDill
KC-135 X 2 Fairchilds
KC-135 Scott
C-21 Scott
KC-10 Mcguire
HC-130J Moody
T-1 FAIP
DLF 17-06
T-38
F-15E
F-16
F-16 ANG
F-16 Iraq
F-15/16 Singapore
T-1
B-52
C-17 x3
U-28
KC-10 x 2
KC-10 AFRC
EC-130
C-130 ANG x2
HC-130
T-6 FAIP
Only thing I would add is that although the class size may start with 24-30, it does not mean they will wing that many. DS's class started with 28 for T6s. 21 move onto the T38/1 phase. They added 7 wash backs and brought the class back to 28. He winged with 21.
His class drop was:
T-38
Saudi "Fighter"
T-6 FAIP
F-16 Luke
F-22 Tyndall
F-15E S.J.
T-1
C-17 Dover
C-130J Little Rock
KC-135 PA ANG
C-130H DANG
KC-135 Fairchild
C-5 Dover
C-130H Peterson Res.
C-17 Charleston x2
E-8 Robbins
C-130J Dyess x2
AC-130W Cannon
C-130J Dyess
T-1 FAIP
C-130H Pitt Res.
Note between international, Reserve and Guard the numbers would be 4 fighters and 12 heavies, or the avg it has always been with about 25% fighters per class.
Vance 17-06
T-38s
F-35
F-22
F-16 X 4
F-16 Iraq
T1s
C-17 Travis
C-17 Charleston
C-5M Dover
CV-22 Hurlburt field
EC-130 DM
C-17 Charleston
KC-135 MacDill
KC-135 X 2 Fairchilds
KC-135 Scott
C-21 Scott
KC-10 Mcguire
HC-130J Moody
T-1 FAIP
DLF 17-06
T-38
F-15E
F-16
F-16 ANG
F-16 Iraq
F-15/16 Singapore
T-1
B-52
C-17 x3
U-28
KC-10 x 2
KC-10 AFRC
EC-130
C-130 ANG x2
HC-130
T-6 FAIP
Only thing I would add is that although the class size may start with 24-30, it does not mean they will wing that many. DS's class started with 28 for T6s. 21 move onto the T38/1 phase. They added 7 wash backs and brought the class back to 28. He winged with 21.
His class drop was:
T-38
Saudi "Fighter"
T-6 FAIP
F-16 Luke
F-22 Tyndall
F-15E S.J.
T-1
C-17 Dover
C-130J Little Rock
KC-135 PA ANG
C-130H DANG
KC-135 Fairchild
C-5 Dover
C-130H Peterson Res.
C-17 Charleston x2
E-8 Robbins
C-130J Dyess x2
AC-130W Cannon
C-130J Dyess
T-1 FAIP
C-130H Pitt Res.
Note between international, Reserve and Guard the numbers would be 4 fighters and 12 heavies, or the avg it has always been with about 25% fighters per class.
I know I am dense, but can you explain what this means. Let takes the first section under Vance 17-06 where you list T-38, F-35 and so on. Oh I think i got it. Under the T-38 you listed 5 different types of Jets. Does that mean 1 person got a F-35, 1 a F-22 , 4 got a F-16 and an Iraqi was trained on a F-16?
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Yes, you understand it correctly. The T-38 and T-1 at the top of each column just denote the section of the drop.
Stealth_81
Stealth_81
WilB-2
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9.2.4.7. Last week of September: Categorization continuation process, Euro-NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training (ENJJPT) selection process, and Supplemental Board completed.
9.2.4.8. First week in October: Categorization continuation process, ENJJPT, and Supplemental Board results released.
WilB-2
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When you initially get your rated preferences sheet it says "do you volunteer for ENJJPT" you either check yes or no. Then once you are selected for pilot and pass your Flight physical you are again re-boarded amongst other cadet pilots who selected yes they volunteer for ENJJPT and the results come out the same day as the Supp Boards.
thanks for the info. So he finds out sometime in early October
Sled
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What many don't know is that the supplemental board is also a "rolling board" in that people will drop out/get kicked out along the way and slots will change. Don't completely lose hope because my selection changed for the better the semester of my commissioning.
Three of the nine pilots slots given to my sons detachment were lost once they went in for their medical flight exam. I have to imagine, those three spots will be given to other people who didn't initially qualify
Pima
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JMPO, but I would be more concerned about passing the FC1 than if you can get ENJJPT.
I am not trying to be rude or mean, but the fact is ENJJPT is highly competitive when you think about it from a numbers standpoint. For example, ENJJPT only wings @190 students a year, including Euro Nato students. The running numbers I have heard from the USAFA side is only the top 10-15% will get ENJJPT. That makes up about 50-60 students. Now, let's say 15% are Euro. that takes up 30 more slots, leaving about 100 to be spread between ROTC and OCS. Let's assume only 30 are OCS. You are now down to 70 slots for AFROTC. If they had 400 picked up for your yr group than the % is really about 15% will come from ROTC rated selectees.
As always this board will be national. Your PCSM is going to matter a lot, along with your rankings, such as, cgpa, SFT standing, PFT, and ranking. 1 out of the 13 in my DS's class went to ENJJPT. He was the CWC, DG at SFT, engineering major with a 3.6 cgpa, and had his PPL. His PCSM was in the high 80s.
The plus as far as I am concerned regarding ENJJPT is that if the AF decides again to pull 2 from every class to go RPA, than you are safe because ENJJPT is excused from that requirement. If you are a top notch flier than you will still track T-38 and get an A, F or B airframe. The 35s are dropping now out of every UPT base, so that edge is gone.
I am not trying to be rude or mean, but the fact is ENJJPT is highly competitive when you think about it from a numbers standpoint. For example, ENJJPT only wings @190 students a year, including Euro Nato students. The running numbers I have heard from the USAFA side is only the top 10-15% will get ENJJPT. That makes up about 50-60 students. Now, let's say 15% are Euro. that takes up 30 more slots, leaving about 100 to be spread between ROTC and OCS. Let's assume only 30 are OCS. You are now down to 70 slots for AFROTC. If they had 400 picked up for your yr group than the % is really about 15% will come from ROTC rated selectees.
As always this board will be national. Your PCSM is going to matter a lot, along with your rankings, such as, cgpa, SFT standing, PFT, and ranking. 1 out of the 13 in my DS's class went to ENJJPT. He was the CWC, DG at SFT, engineering major with a 3.6 cgpa, and had his PPL. His PCSM was in the high 80s.
The plus as far as I am concerned regarding ENJJPT is that if the AF decides again to pull 2 from every class to go RPA, than you are safe because ENJJPT is excused from that requirement. If you are a top notch flier than you will still track T-38 and get an A, F or B airframe. The 35s are dropping now out of every UPT base, so that edge is gone.
Thanks for the info! I try not to concern myself too much on passing the IFC because that is something that is simply out of my control. I believe I have a very good chance at getting selected for ENJJPT and it would be a shame to get looked over. Nonetheless, I'm very fortunate to be a UPT select and am very greatful.
If you do get selected for ENJJPT, do you have accept and if not, does it look bad if you dont? The only reason I could see why you wouldnt want to accept is that you are now competing with the best of the best (Movie reference) which could be mean that while you may be a top 5 in UPT, you could be ranked #10 at ENJJPT. I guess it didnt matter when everyone was guaranteed a fighter\bomber spot, but now it could make a difference
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I think if you get ENJJPT it is a base assignment so you would probably have to trade your spot for one of the regular bases with someone willing to take your ENJJPT slot (Probably not hard to fine someone!). The ENJJPT drops have been pretty nice lately, though. Here is last Friday's:
ENJJPT 17-07
T-38 Faip
T-6 Faip
T-38 Adair
B-1
B-1
F-16
F-16
F-16
F-35
F-22
F-15C
F-15E
As always, past results do not guarantee anything.
Stealth_81