23 percent can't pass military entrance exam

Just read this today too...what is more sad is that this seems to getting nearly no attention at all in Congress. If our government runs this course, we will surely lose our hegemony to Russia or China...
 
Chockstock said:
Just read this today too...what is more sad is that this seems to getting nearly no attention at all in Congress. If our government runs this course, we will surely lose our hegemony to Russia or China...
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Do you not think the present incentives to open combat ratings for women and repeal of the DADT is somewhat driven by this? Increasing the enlistment pool is the quickest method to ensure a quality military.
 
Chockstock said:
Just read this today too...what is more sad is that this seems to getting nearly no attention at all in Congress. If our government runs this course, we will surely lose our hegemony to Russia or China...
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No problem. We'll just subcontract it out. :rolleyes:

But it does seem consistent with fighting two wars without asking for any shared sacrifice.
 
First off, ag, the quote was not 1 in 4 trying to join the military it was
Nearly one-fourth of the students who try to join the U.S. Army fail its entrance exam
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I heard this on the news also, but as soon as I heard it, I wondered many different issues.

What are the other branches scores regarding the testing? Will they now release their scores? Is this broad based for all of the military?

Is this an Army issue only? If so why, and how do they correct it?

Is this a bigger issue regarding our educational system?

Is this a media "grab your attention" issue?

I was left with more questions than answers.
 
Pima said:
First off, ag, the quote was not 1 in 4 trying to join the military it was

I heard this on the news also, but as soon as I heard it, I wondered many different issues.

What are the other branches scores regarding the testing? Will they now release their scores? Is this broad based for all of the military?

Is this an Army issue only? If so why, and how do they correct it?

Is this a bigger issue regarding our educational system?

Is this a media "grab your attention" issue?

I was left with more questions than answers.
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They also mention that the US Army has the lowest needed score out of the services for enlisted prospects;, if 1/4 are failing the Army's entrance exam, what about the other branches when the exam score needed is supposably higher? Just something I was struck by when I read it
 
Pima said:
First off, ag, the quote was not 1 in 4 trying to join the military it was..
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The report by The Education Trust found that 23 percent of recent high school graduates don't get the minimum score needed on the enlistment test to join any branch of the military.
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I suppose it depends on what part of the article you read. I agree that the author does seem to use military and Army interchangeably despite this being a study based solely on Army results. Thanks for pointing out the discrepancy.
 
That is a problem.

The Army is the Army and has their own regs, just like the AF, Navy and CG have theirs.

To say 1/4 of the military is one thing, but another when it is only 1/4 of the Army.

One is a big picture, the other is a much smaller picture.

Services are not interchangeable and anyone serving knows that, YET the avg American would believe they are interchangeable when it comes to the branches.

I personally think the Media played the results for a shock factor to make people jump that 1/4 of the military aren't qualified.

Where is their report that the SAs are getting the best of the best HS students?
 
Pima said:
That is a problem.

The Army is the Army and has their own regs, just like the AF, Navy and CG have theirs.

To say 1/4 of the military is one thing, but another when it is only 1/4 of the Army.

One is a big picture, the other is a much smaller picture.

Services are not interchangeable and anyone serving knows that, YET the avg American would believe they are interchangeable when it comes to the branches.

I personally think the Media played the results for a shock factor to make people jump that 1/4 of the military aren't qualified.

Where is their report that the SAs are getting the best of the best HS students?
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:confused:

I don't quite understand how someone could find this article either confusing, contradictory, surprising or even focused on the US Military?? To put it simply- 23% of the prospective enlistees in the US Army failed to achieve a 31 on the ASVAB which is the minimum acceptable score for enlistment in the USArmy & the USMC. Since the article points out that the other services require a higher ASVAB score to enlist one can infer that the % of nonqualifiers would increase if the Navy, AirForce or Coast Guard were the subjects of the study. As printed though the story was accurate- "23 percent of recent high school graduates don't get the minimum score needed on the enlistment test to join any branch of the military" .
What connection would pointing out the relative academic merits of the Service Academy pool have to this story? The study and the story are not commenting on the academic quality of the military- rather they are commenting on the poor standards of academic preparation of the current generation of 18-25 year old Americans as evidenced by the test scores of those who are trying to get into the US Army.

Is this a concerning statistic? Well it is to me- not only for the affect on the Military recruiting pool, but in trying to get qualified employees for a basic manufacturing operation. It's also not a surprising finding though- if you've ever read a report generated by the average High School grad or watched while the Cashier struggled to make change after ringing up a charge on a cash register and then being handed additional coinage to make the change come out even, then you know that we have some serious educational issues in the US.
 
The following statistics are more concerning to me.
"..75 percent of those aged 17 to 24 don't qualify for the military because they are physically unfit, have a criminal record or didn't graduate high school."
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Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the above stat seem to say that only 1/4 (25%) of 17 to 24 year olds are qualified for the military?
A Department of Defense report notes the military must recruit about 15 percent of youth, but only one-third are eligible.
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This stat seems to indicate that 1/3 (33%) are eligible. Is "eligible" the same as "qualified"? Perhaps this larger group represents more than just the 17 to 24 year olds.

Admittedly my math skills are rusty but the preceding stats seems to indicate that the military must recruit about half of the qualified 17 to 24 year olds.
 
bruno said:
if you've ever read a report generated by the average High School grad or watched while the Cashier struggled to make change after ringing up a charge on a cash register and then being handed additional coinage to make the change come out even, then you know that we have some serious educational issues in the US.
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Thats kind of harsh. Implying that the average HS grad can’t write a report, or that high school students can’t count change. If somebody of age to work (15 in MA I think) can’t properly count change, I guarantee they are far out of the average. My school had 95% (actual number) pass the MCAS (Mass Comprehensive Assessment System) last year, that is pretty darn good, considering 2-3% of students probably made no significant effort.IMHO I don’t think education is the issue at all. Teachers do their job well, and try hard (not saying I don’t complain about them though, after all I AM a student still :yllol:). I don’t know what the issue is honestly, but I don’t think it is the teacher not doing their job well, and the government running the system poorly.
 
futureAFA said:
Thats kind of harsh. Implying that the average HS grad can’t write a report, or that high school students can’t count change. If somebody of age to work (15 in MA I think) can’t properly count change, I guarantee they are far out of the average. My school had 95% (actual number) pass the MCAS (Mass Comprehensive Assessment System) last year, that is pretty darn good, considering 2-3% of students probably made no significant effort.IMHO I don’t think education is the issue at all. Teachers do their job well, and try hard (not saying I don’t complain about them though, after all I AM a student still :yllol:). I don’t know what the issue is honestly, but I don’t think it is the teacher not doing their job well, and the government running the system poorly.
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My school is very similar on pass rate on MCAS and is considered a very good public school, but then again, teachers are complaining about the focus that schools have to put on prepping for MCAS especially since many science teachers in junior high are prepping so much to the detriment of the kids when they get to the high school that they really don't know what they're doing in an honors or later AP class. MCAS should count for squat in the great scheme of things. If you fail those....
 
Casey said:
My school is very similar on pass rate on MCAS and is considered a very good public school, but then again, teachers are complaining about the focus that schools have to put on prepping for MCAS especially since many science teachers in junior high are prepping so much to the detriment of the kids when they get to the high school that they really don't know what they're doing in an honors or later AP class. MCAS should count for squat in the great scheme of things. If you fail those....
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It does test basic knowledge, yet they do spend A LOT of time prepping. I don’t think it actually hurts anybody though. Even if I remembered EVERYTHING I learned in middle school science, I doubt it would make a difference to my grades. Everything we do in High School is new, there is little repeating information, because we go in so much more depth.
 
futureAFA said:
It does test basic knowledge, yet they do spend A LOT of time prepping. I don’t think it actually hurts anybody though. Even if I remembered EVERYTHING I learned in middle school science, I doubt it would make a difference to my grades. Everything we do in High School is new, there is little repeating information, because we go in so much more depth.
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It isn't so much that the kids aren't learning material that they are supposed to prep for high school since as you say, its new and more in depth by the time you get there. What hurts kids when teachers prep so much is that they don't know how to apply themselves to the higher standard that science teachers in the high school require in honors, etc especially when it comes to open response. The required open response/thinking required for the MCAS because it is such a basic knowledge test limits kids in their knowledge how to answer open responses that require them to make higher connections, more indepth, etc. Either they pick it up or they don't in high school, but it starts from them not getting prepped in middle school by getting babied for MCAS tests
 
Casey said:
It isn't so much that the kids aren't learning material that they are supposed to prep for high school since as you say, its new and more in depth by the time you get there. What hurts kids when teachers prep so much is that they don't know how to apply themselves to the higher standard that science teachers in the high school require in honors, etc especially when it comes to open response. The required open response/thinking required for the MCAS because it is such a basic knowledge test limits kids in their knowledge how to answer open responses that require them to make higher connections, more indepth, etc. Either they pick it up or they don't in high school, but it starts from them not getting prepped in middle school by getting babied for MCAS tests
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I guess I agree with that a little, it may be more of an issue at your school. Mine spends a fair amount prepping for MCAS but the least is in science and math, we prep a lot for english (well used to, I haven’t done anything MCAS related in a few years)
 
futureAFA said:
I guess I agree with that a little, it may be more of an issue at your school. Mine spends a fair amount prepping for MCAS but the least is in science and math, we prep a lot for english (well used to, I haven’t done anything MCAS related in a few years)
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Yea I mean its more of a concern with freshman. After that, most kids will stay on the same track that they get on (CP, honors, etc) through high school. After sophomore year, there's no MCAS focus cause we're done with it unless you failed a test and have to retake it.
 
aglages said:
The following statistics are more concerning to me.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the above stat seem to say that only 1/4 (25%) of 17 to 24 year olds are qualified for the military?

This stat seems to indicate that 1/3 (33%) are eligible. Is "eligible" the same as "qualified"? Perhaps this larger group represents more than just the 17 to 24 year olds.

Admittedly my math skills are rusty but the preceding stats seems to indicate that the military must recruit about half of the qualified 17 to 24 year olds.
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Say you have a pool of 400 kids from whom to recruit. 300 will be ineligible because they will not qualify in terms of height/weight, fitness or moral character. So now you have 100 left. Of those 100 kids, 23 will fail the ASVAB.

75% of potential recruits are not even eligible to take the ASVAB because they are not qualified (in terms of height/weight, medical issues, fitness or moral character) to join the Army.
Of those 25% who are qualified to join and eligible to take the ASVAB, 23% will fail it.
There are plenty of kids who will pass the ASVAB but not qualified to join in terms of weight, medical issues or moral character.
 
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