3 USNA Football Players Face Sexual Assault Probe

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by Luigi59, May 30, 2013.

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  1. MemberLG

    MemberLG 5-Year Member

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    Alcohol is a contributing factor, not the main factor. Some people will never sexually assault someone regardless how much they drank. Some people will sexually assault someone without a drop of alcohol.

    Perhaps military do have a cultural issue of accepting sexual assaults as something along the line of boys will be boys.
     
  2. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006 10-Year Member

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    I'm not sure. I remember our case, from my class, and my classmates were disgusted with the individual. He was nearly disowned, even by friends. I do think there is a stigma around it, and every case I've heard about involved women who were doing something that was either illegal or against the rules (hence why they didn't want to come forward). Military units are also small and tight, so if someone is assaulted, no doubt they also fear being judged by their comrades.

    My experience however was, people rallied around the victims (when known). I certainly never got the feeling it was accepted. Granted CGA is small and the classes are tighter than the three larger academies...
     
  3. JMC0759

    JMC0759 S-USMMA '12 SUNY 15, D-USAFA '15 TTUHSC '20 5-Year Member

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    A question for those with more knowledge of the UCMJ than I have. What is the statute of limitations (if any) on prosecuting a sexual assault in the military? One of my co-workers in the civilian world had a case a few years ago where a victim made an outcry almost ten years after the offense. (The S.O.L. was ten years.) Both victim and suspect had moved on, went to college, married and had families. What a nightmare.
     
  4. BlahuKahuna

    BlahuKahuna 5-Year Member

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    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/843

    "A person charged with absence without leave or missing movement in time of war, with murder, rape, or rape of a child, or with any other offense punishable by death, may be tried and punished at any time without limitation."
     
  5. JMS

    JMS 5-Year Member

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    Ahh the memories of the annual mandatory UCMJ class came flooding back... "and for you guys with small (insert a coarse, but descriptive word here) any penetration, no matter how slight..."
     
  6. AF6872

    AF6872 10-Year Member

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    And I remember the yearly harassment briefings from the Lawyer. I always told everyone in the room at the end of the meeting that I wouldn't turn anyone in. The Lawyer just rolled his eyes as usual.
     
  7. AF6872

    AF6872 10-Year Member

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    Luigi59 is only posting information. Take a break.
     
  8. Tigger

    Tigger 5-Year Member

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    Wow

    Wow. Just wow. No wonder there is a problem. Not much hope for anything getting better as long as attitudes like this persist.

     
  9. Tigger

    Tigger 5-Year Member

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    Seriously?!

    I cannot even begin to express the anger that this elicits. Backing away from the computer now...nothing good comes at this point.

     
  10. AF6872

    AF6872 10-Year Member

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    Take a Break and Chill out. A gentleman will be a gentleman and an a** hole will be an a**. Doesn't mean if he his Officer or enlisted. Carry your self as a Man with dignity and honor.
     
  11. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom 10-Year Member

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  12. usnabgo08

    usnabgo08 USNA 2008/BGO 10-Year Member

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    I saw that linked article, as well.

    A few rhetorical thoughts/questions and not necessarily related to this case:

    (1) How do we protect alleged victims of sexual assault -- to include investigating and holding any alleged perpetrators accountable -- if the victim doesn't want to press charges (sometimes it is a personal choice that they don't want to have to re-live the alleged incident in a court)? Curious to see if that was why this case was "closed" and the victim wasn't "cooperating."

    (2) What about claims of rape that are completely false (i.e. the situation where someone would have got in trouble for another offense, so the rape/sexual assault claim is thrown into the mix to grant immunity for the other offense)? In other words, rape/sexual assault is a BIG deal and for those that abuse it, how do we hold those people accountable or do we just believe that anyone who claims they were raped/sexually assaulted to be true and shouldn't be held accountable for a false accusation? Many of the Sailors (men and women, alike) have brought this issue up, saying it taints their overall view of this problem.

    (3) Alcohol is a BIG influence of rape/sexual assault/harassment, so shouldn't we tackle that problem as well? If 80-90% of these cases are related to ARI's, fixing that problem could also partially fix this problem. To me, there needs to be a stronger focus on the PREVENTION of incidents (i.e. how to avoid getting into sticky situations in the first place and to stop it before it happens) with the understanding that this is a mitigating training tool -- it isn't going to prevent ALL issues.

    (4) The recent rape acquittal of the Marine Major (former USNA instructor) shows how difficult it is to legally prove a rape/sexual assault. But in this incident, there was allegedly a few text messages exchanged between one of the witnesses and the victim that said, Witness: "What’s the story so I don’t mix it up?” -- Victim: "Say anything and everything...haha.” What I found to be disgusting (if these text messages are verbatim) is the "haha" part -- THE VICTIM is the one making a joke of rape? I certainly don't find that humorous.
     
  13. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Shocking. :rolleyes:

     
  14. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    That number was shocking to me from the position of statistically, removing when they are not at USNA (winter, spring breaks), it is about 1 every week and a half/ two weeks over the 2 yr period.
     
  15. jasperdog

    jasperdog 5-Year Member

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    I have no issue with this thread, things like this need to be investigated and light shone on them. That said, another part of me hates it and is sickened by it.

    No matter how this ends every one and every thing this touches is cheapened by it... the mere fact there is/was someplace known as "the football house" is problematic let alone what may or may not have happened there, IMO.
     
  16. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom 10-Year Member

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    Did you even read the NYT article? Your *rhetorical* questions are nothing more than excuses for retaining the status quo, IMO>

     
  17. usnabgo08

    usnabgo08 USNA 2008/BGO 10-Year Member

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    JAM,

    I think you are reading my post with the assumption that I am defending the accused (and apparently I am creating excuses for them, as well). I am not sure why you seem to think that, I am just raising valid and objective points (and as I previously noted, the questions/thoughts weren't necessarily related directly to the article, but more on the subject). I do appreciate some of your viewpoints.

    On item (1), some of the victims, regardless if there are "barriers" still don't want to have to re-live the issue, thus THEY decide they don't want to press charges. So should an investigator still pursue charges if the victim doesn't want to (even if it is an unrestricted report)? I think in a court that the accused has a right to confront the accuser (though I am not a JAG/attorney), so if the investigation/trial continues, would this force the victim to "re-live" this event (again, against the victims wishes)?

    On item (2), that wasn't my question. It was that if those 1% (as you claim, I don't know the exact figure) of false accusations should be held accountable.

    For example, say I were to have a sexual encounter with an enlisted, but knew I was going to get in trouble for fraternization, so I decided to say I was raped, knowing the convening authority would not seek charges for my offenses. After the acquittal of the other party (or if it never went to court martial due to evidence), should I just be free to go or should I face the original charges?

    On item (4), you missed my point again. I am not praising the Major for sleeping with a MIDN; that is something he should have known better than to do and the panel members clearly thought the same way. I was simply saying that legally proving rape/sexual assault isn't an easy task in the court system AND it isn't a joking matter, yet the victim seemed to indicate that with "haha."

    I think you seem to ASSUME that I am defending those accused and I am not.

    I also think the points being discussed (that you mentioned) about an objective/outside investigation is probably a good course of action and that MIDN serving underage does need to be dealt with swiftly.

    Edit: I think there needs to be some consistency for punishment of all offenses at USNA (it doesn't matter if you are #1 in the class, on the football team, etc.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
  18. Christcorp

    Christcorp 10-Year Member

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    I believe that if a false claim/accusation is made, and evidence shows that the allegations are not true, then all bets are off and numerous charges could be placed against an individual. Starting with perjury if applicable.
     
  19. MomWPgirl

    MomWPgirl 5-Year Member

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    I would also think a false claim/accusation of rape at a service academy would bring about huge stigma and make one's life pretty miserable. Being ostracized or shunned by your peers in an already stressful environment would be a major determent for false accusations.
     
  20. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom 10-Year Member

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    usnabgo08 - thanks for your candid comments. I don't think you are defending the accused. Some of my comments admittedly drifted off in a general sense and not meant to be directed to you specifically.

    My response back to you:

    1. This is very tricky and difficult - encouraging victims to testify. Even when there is plenty of physical evidence it is very difficult for a woman who has been raped to go forward. How can we encourage women to go forward? We (as a society) can start by believing them. We can treat rape as a violent crime of abuse instead of subtly or overtly telling the victim that she must have 'asked for it'.

    At the academies and colleges - women are shamed for having been assaulted and then reporting it. Their own peers blame them for 'getting the football player expelled'. College presidents blame them for bringing bad press to the school. and on and on.....So your answer is complicated with no simple and easy solution.

    If the military is serious about changing the rape culture they need to talk to victims - find out why they were reluctant to report and how women can be encouraged to report going forward.

    2. False accusations -actually the FBI puts the number at between 2% and 8%. Trained professional investigators who respond to the victims complaint in a timely manner can ferret out the vast majority of false accusations -- before charges are filed.
    This would be a sexual assault investigator from NCIS - NOT the Commandant.

    Any person who knowingly and willingly makes a false accusation, of course should be held accountable. This should be easy at the Academy - since this is lying and cause for dismissal. That said - an acquittal is not synonymous with a false accusation.

    Some folks want to look to the infamous Duke lax case as a classic false allegation that destroyed the lives of the lax players. However, it was not the false claim but the incompetent DA who lost his law license by fraudulently prosecuting the case.

    Far more common than false accusations are victims who choose not to report their assault.

    4. Again, right, I know you weren't defending the Major. I don't understand the 'haha' either. I don't know if the Major raped or assaulted the women or not - I haven't read enough credible information. Defense attorney's will look at everything and use anything that victims say and do against them in defense of their client.
    It certainly was a weird case - I don't know what he was thinking or what 'indecent acts' he was convicted of.
     
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