34,000 troops will be sent to Afghanistan

pedro4 said:
My primary concern is his policy. By telegraphing a departure date he will insure that villagers sympathetic to our mission will now hedge their bets for when the Taliban fills in behind us. This will make the mission of our troops more difficult, and more servicemen may die as a result. He is doing this for political reasons, and I object when a military decision is affected by political considerations.
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^^^^
I will agree with this.
Two points though. 1st - at least he is making an effort to finish a mission that has cost American lives. I am pleasantly surprised and relieved. 2nd - He is a politician. I don't know if he (or almost) or any other politician can make a military decision without it be affected by political considerations. While I agree with you and Pima about telegraphing a departure date, I'm not sure if he could sell it to enough members of Congress without a time line for withdraw. There is one good thing about politicians though.......almost nobody expects them to keep their word. The supposed departure date may very well come and go if the mission has not been accomplished.
 
I would laugh but it is too serious

We can find these talking points in "published articles"? My bad, I will start reading more.
 
My bad on the topic, Luigi. Doesn't really make the general point wrong. There's nothing uniquely political about the President's use of West Point for the speech. It's also silly to complain about military decisions being affected by political calculation. That's been a factor in the USA's military decision-making forever (and every other country's military decision-making, ever).
 
SteveHolt243 said:
My bad on the topic, Luigi. Doesn't really make the general point wrong. There's nothing uniquely political about the President's use of West Point for the speech. It's also silly to complain about military decisions being affected by political calculation. That's been a factor in the USA's military decision-making forever (and every other country's military decision-making, ever).
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Good points.
 
In talking about communications, we also need to talk about "internal communications." The President must sell the increase to Congress, however I'm not sure if talking about pulling out is really "selling" it to the men and women on the ground, at sea, and in the air. They see the broadcast too.

Just something to think about.
 
I hate it when I'm right

Chris Matthews told his audience that the CIC went into "enemy territory" at West Point and that is why they were not enthusiastic enough. The photo op went poorly so the Cadets are to blame. Anyone else notice the "cost is too high vs. domestic priorities" line? I wonder what that means....more or less support for your troops..
 
I wouldn't call West Point "hostile territory". Cadets know that the President is their boss. I'm sure having the Commander in Chief hurt the "flow" of the day, with the security contingent, but he's the boss, and we all know that.
 
pedro4 said:
Chris Matthews told his audience that the CIC went into "enemy territory" at West Point and that is why they were not enthusiastic enough. The photo op went poorly so the Cadets are to blame. Anyone else notice the "cost is too high vs. domestic priorities" line? I wonder what that means....more or less support for your troops..
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Chris Matthews? Might have been the one time he didn't get a "tingly feeling running up his leg" when Obama was on?

BTW, I noticed many sleeping cadets last night. In defense of Obama, I know that if DS has been cramming/studying for quiz/exams and has his usual 5 to 6 hours of sleep going on, at 8:00pm at night, he can literally fall asleep talking to us in the car...let alone at a 40 minute Obama speech. :biggrin: I felt sorry for the Cadets that were caught on National TV doing so :biggrin:
 
in defense of nappers...

Ike Hall has very comfy seats AND many of those cadets had been sitting there since 4:40...right after sports time...many non-cadets seemed tired as well...
 
My Cadet called this morning and we were talking about the big event last night. He said that they were all aware of the press pictures of what appears to be Cadets sleeping during the speech. In actuality, those pictures were made during the many hours that they were sitting in Ike Hall prior to Obama's speech. Some were there as long as 4 hours beforehand. :eek: They entered by Regiment. 4th went in first at 4:00. By the time the 1st Regiment entered, there were not enough seats so some of them had to go to another hall and listen from there. Many cadets brought books to study while waiting (as this was during their study time) while others took this as an opportunity to catch a few winks.
He felt that during the speech that most were alert as what the President had to say affects them directly. I'm sure, however, there were a few that just couldn't keep their tired little eyes open.:smile:
 
mom3boys said:
I have heard many cadets say they feel "used and cheap" and "in need of a shower."
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Please, is this the only response you have to the Commander in Chief addressing the Corps? You do a disservice to the Corps with this post. As military service members the Corps is honored and ready to hear their Commander in Chief address themselves and the nation.
 
Cadets and Midshipmen, in general, become very sleepy people when put in seats together.
 
The link below is written by a Professor of English at USMA and gives a pretty thoughtful view of the President's speech last night and how cadets related to it.

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/lonely-kind-courage?page=0,1

A Lonely Kind of Courage
The view from within Eisenhower Hall.
Elizabeth D. Samet is a professor of English at the U.S. Military Academy and the author of Soldier’s Heart: Reading Literature Through Peace and War at West Point

....Yet oratory, presidential or otherwise, occupies a peculiar place in military culture, where action is king. Cadets are accustomed to being exhorted, and they become adept at responding with an automatic enthusiasm. But they are even better, when given the chance (as I think they were last night), at thinking seriously about responsibility.

...Speakers often feel the need to remind cadets of their status as volunteers, as patriots, as young people who understand the concept of sacrifice. They sometimes try to flatter cadets with jingoism, bromides, and generalities rather than challenging them with questions, difficulties, and specifics. I sometimes wonder whether, in a society in which a true consciousness of the military has receded for so many, cadets make visitors uneasy in some fundamental way....

....Roosevelt regarded another attribute as essential to an officer’s successful negotiation of complex responsibilities, namely a “sympathetic knowledge of how other men’s minds work and of the processes by which non-military life operates. There is no greater quality of discipline than the ability to recognize different techniques and different processes, and by persuasion and reason to bring these divergent forces into fruitful cooperation.”....
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Thanks for posting that article Bruno, I hadn't seen it yet. I always enjoy reading what Ms. Samet has to say. I highly recommend her book: Soldier’s Heart: Reading Literature Through Peace and War at West Point.
 
Can I ask a simple question? BTW, for the record, I liked the speech but thought it was too long and there were some inconsistancies...IMVHO as just a simple American citizen that wouldn't dare claim to know world diplomacy but....

Obama stated that Afghanistan is very important to win as a "vital to American national interests"; and that he took the three months to weigh the consequences of not sending more troops in, why then would he have a time table if the Afghans didn't step up to the plate and take over in 18 months? Does the American interest in Afghanistan end in 18 months even if they are not up to speed with their military? :confused:
 
sweettooth said:
Please, is this the only response you have to the Commander in Chief addressing the Corps? You do a disservice to the Corps with this post. As military service members the Corps is honored and ready to hear their Commander in Chief address themselves and the nation.
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sweettooth:
You should set down and rest it must be exhausting to know each and every cadet at the academy is honored and ready to hear their CoC did you speak with each one individually that must have been tiring.
speak only for yourself!

obama is a great orator but to give a great speech a great audience is required. By speaking to the cadets he had an audience that appeared to be attentive,courteous and well behaved. The discipline of the cadets insured that no unscheduled outburst would occur and no embarrassing questions would be asked. This was a shrewd and calculated event planned and executed by obama's PR staff. The event was also good practice for the cadets for in their military careers they will her many a speech from their superior officers and the required response will be "yes sir" and to carry out their orders smartly.
 
Interesting articles from recordonline.com:

1) Cadets advised on the sound of 8,800 hands clapping
Those who watched President Obama's speech on Afghanistan probably noticed that the Corps of Cadets applauded only twice during the talk. Here's why:

Before the speech, Col. James Seidule, a history professor at West Point, talked about the history of presidential visits to the military academy. Then he issued two stiff pieces of advice to the 4,400 cadets. The first was to avoid distracting Obama from the "serious business of addressing the American people."

The second tip was on applause. Never clap to show support for policy decisions, Seidule said. Only clap when Obama enters the room, finishes his speech and when he mentions the hard work and valor of the military.

Adam Bosch


2) A hearty, local handshake
Cadets quietly snapped digital photos of Obama during his speech, but the real adoration happened after. That's when Obama shook hands with cadets who rushed to the front of Eisenhower Hall.

One of the cadets who shook hands with the president was Dan White of Milton.

"I shook his hand and said, 'Mr. President, it's an honor to serve with you,'" White said.

Obama looked at him and moved on. Then he paused and came back to White, grabbed his elbow and replied: "It's an honor to serve with you."

Adam Bosch
 
The OC Josh said:
Earlier someone mentioned cadets reading books while waiting.
Here's a link to some pictures of the cadets who were reading. Interesting titles ;)
Books read during Speech
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That is almost a "must read" book for the professional soldier.(On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society") It's written around 15-20 years ago by a then LTC by the name of Dave Grossman and it deals with a real world subject- how do you train soldiers to overcome their innate inhibitions to kill in War and how do they deal with that. This is a wartime Army- it's a current issue. While this book is a dense and scholarly read- it's a pretty detailed and indepth look at the mindset of your soldiers- I'm pretty impressed that this Cadet is plowing thru this book.
 
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