4 year ROTC vs ECP

[rayrotc]

Differences of the routes?

To what extent is each better than the other?

Compare them

 

[Tex232]

ECP: You go to a military junior college (New Mexico Military Institute for example) for two years and earn an associates degree, as well as your commission. You’re then committed to the Army Reserves or NG (in a non-deployable status) for the time it takes you to complete your bachelors degree at a normal university. They give you three years to complete the Rest of your degree, and then you’re able to either continue on in the reserve component or apply for active duty. The ECP program in my opinion is probably the better route, because it allows you to get your commission earlier than most, meaning that you get credit for more time in service. Assuming you enter the program by your 18th birthday, you could be earning a 2nd Lt’s Salary and promote to first lieutenant, all by the time you have earned your bachelor’s degree and before you’re even 21. In short, it gives you a bit of a head start compared to your peers who get their commission elsewhere. The Army is the only service which offers this unique program. The only negative to this route that I can see is that you’ll have to put up with living on a military college campus for two years. My guess is that the ECP program will die out in the near future. The military junior colleges around the country are slowly closing their doors due to lack of student interest (who would have guessed this generation can’t handle a little discipline) and with them will go the ECP program.

Normal ROTC: You go straight to a four year university, complete the ROTC program during your time there, and subsequently earn your commission. Pretty straight forward.

 

[billyb]

Counter point.....

Your level of maturity is very important in your early leadership building days. I don't agree that being younger is better and actually think it is a disadvantage.

 

[kinnem]

And although you get Lt pay, it's Reserve or Guard Lt pay, whatever that is. You're not a full time soldier.

 

[QA1517]

DS did the ECP route.

About 4 months after joining his guard unit he called me one night and said "I don't know who ever thought that making a 20 yr old a LT was a good idea".
He "soldiered" thru and has been very successful.
Your level of maturity and discipline is very key to making ECP work. At your follow on school they will not care that you are in the NG, you still have to do your school work along with balancing the responsibilities of being an officer. And vice versa your guard unit will not care you have a test on Monday and you have to spend all weekend at drill.

DS's unit did a 3 week AT in January which meant he would miss the first 2 weeks of school. The school didn't care, he was not allowed to miss that many days. His commander didn't care, he required him for all 3 weeks of training. He ended up having to take online courses that semester from a different school.

Also, you on non-deployable for overseas assignments. You are deployable domestically. Which means if there are floods or any other reason your unit might deploy within the US you are required to go and still maintain your schooling.

You also will not go to BOLC until you graduate, so you will not become a 1st LT until then. As an ECP LT, the time before BOLC you do not receive any officer reviews as technically you are still under cadet command control. So yes you have time in service, but your promotions do not necessarily come as quick.

The other thing is that depending on the unit you join, as an ECP LT they may look at you as non-deployable and not give you the opportunity to be a platoon leader the way they would a traditional LT. Therefore you could spend 1 1/2 yrs with the unit, never really getting to be a PL, then be shipped off to battalion to do staff work. It all depends on the leadership you are under. Also in the guard you will be 20yrs old and could be in charge of soldiers that have been in for 20 plus yrs. It can be a daunting task.
DS has been lucky and performed well. He has been with his unit for 3 yrs, is at EBOLC, and is slated to go back to his unit and be the XO. He has been a PL, communications officer, assistant XO, and back to platoon leader. He deployed in state during an emergency. He has gone to several classes and has been called on by his battalion commander to run the firing ranges at a nearby base for several different units in his battalion. All in an effort from his command to keep him with his current unit as long as possible.

Typically a new 2nd LT will spend 1 1/2 to 2 years with there guard unit then go to battalion for staff duty.

It also depends, do you wish to have a sure chance of competing for active duty? If so then go the 4 yr route. The ECP route does not guarantee you the chance of competing for it.

 

[CitadelN88]

There are ECP as 4th class cadets at SMC, it makes for some interesting times.

I guess ECP wear 2Lt rank to 'Army Lab' and FTX, so 10 minutes ago a ECP is getting 'flamed on' by cadre (cadet) - he goes into his room changes for lab , comes out then cadre pops to and salutes him

 

[CitadelN88]

--snip-- The only negative to this route that I can see is that you’ll have to put up with living on a military college campus for two years.--snip--

Put up?

 

[QA1517]

There are ECP as 4th class cadets at SMC, it makes for some interesting times.

I guess ECP wear 2Lt rank to 'Army Lab' and FTX, so 10 minutes ago a ECP is getting 'flamed on' by cadre (cadet) - he goes into his room changes for lab , comes out then cadre pops to and salutes him

I knew 2 ECP's that went followed on at an SMC. They were both assigned to NG units in that state so they did not have to attend labs. They just reported to the ROTC dept. as required.

DS had very little contact with the ROTC dept at his follow up school. Mainly with HR just turning in his schedule.

 

[PastorZack]

There are ECP as 4th class cadets at SMC, it makes for some interesting times.

I guess ECP wear 2Lt rank to 'Army Lab' and FTX, so 10 minutes ago a ECP is getting 'flamed on' by cadre (cadet) - he goes into his room changes for lab , comes out then cadre pops to and salutes him

I knew 2 ECP's that went followed on at an SMC. They were both assigned to NG units in that state so they did not have to attend labs. They just reported to the ROTC dept. as required.

DS had very little contact with the ROTC dept at his follow up school. Mainly with HR just turning in his schedule.

if you don't mind me asking....what state and follow on school?

also, did your son want AD or did he want to be commissioned into NG? Did he try to get the GRFD revoked?

 

[QA1517]

The ECP's I knew went to Norwich.

DS is in Missouri, followed on at Mizzou.

As for DS. He graduated the year that cadet Command moved to Fort Knox and re-did LDAC and they were reducing AD Forces. Cadet Command stated they wanted SMC's and MJC's to put more quality officers into National Guard. I believe they were even given a number that year.

The last I knew an ECP cadet has to be recommended by 2 of 3 to compete for active duty, their PMS, Cadet Command, and Big Army. Normally Cadet Commanded follows the PMS's recommendation. And this is done before the end of their 3rd semester.

Out of 27 that commissioned with him the PMS only recommended 5 to compete for Active Duty. Of those 5 I only know of 2 that went Active Duty (very intelligent and dedicated young men). DS was not one of those 5. The class before him roughly 2/3 were recommended for AD.

DS wanted AD, but you don't always get what you want so you have to adjust your plans and goals. He has been told by many superiors both guard and AD that he should be AD, but he was not given that choice. So at this point he is doing the best he can where he is at.

 

[Tex232]

DS's unit did a 3 week AT in January which meant he would miss the first 2 weeks of school. The school didn't care, he was not allowed to miss that many days. His commander didn't care, he required him for all 3 weeks of training. He ended up having to take online courses that semester from a different school.

Don’t quote me on this but I’m nearly certain that the law (might be different for each state) protects guardsmen from being punished by their school for not attending class if they are activated. Similar to federal law protecting them from being fired from a civilian job.

Also did your son ever try to apply for active duty after he was commissioned? I don’t know when he commissioned but they certainly need officers on active duty now. I have a friend who is an active duty TC officer and he commissioned into the Guard, spent a year or two there, and is now on active duty. And he is by no means a sharp officer.

 

[QA1517]

DS's unit did a 3 week AT in January which meant he would miss the first 2 weeks of school. The school didn't care, he was not allowed to miss that many days. His commander didn't care, he required him for all 3 weeks of training. He ended up having to take online courses that semester from a different school.

Don’t quote me on this but I’m nearly certain that the law (might be different for each state) protects guardsmen from being punished by their school for not attending class if they are activated. Similar to federal law protecting them from being fired from a civilian job.

Also did your son ever try to apply for active duty after he was commissioned? I don’t know when he commissioned but they certainly need officers on active duty now. I have a friend who is an active duty TC officer and he commissioned into the Guard, spent a year or two there, and is now on active duty. And he is by no means a sharp officer.

They can't punish you by kicking you out of school or flunking you, but they can un-enroll you for that semester. And as an ECP 2nd LT still in college you have to be enrolled full time to meet the requirements. If not you are in violation of your contract. He did check into that at the time. That's why on-line classes were allowed as that was the only option.

Also being ECP (lots of fine print in those contracts) I believe he has to finish his original contract before he could try to transfer to active duty. Don't quote me on that.

I do know that the Army has a CAD program (call to active duty) and for first and second LT's they must have completed BOLC, which he is now at. As a Captain you would have to complete the Captains Career Course prior to applying.

At this point in his life (just married and wife is in nursing school) I don't know if he still has the desire to go AD. Haven't really discussed it. I figure that's up to him and his wife.

 

[jrwork]

This is an interesting thread to me. DS just found out that he did not secure a nomination from our representative to West Point. While our two senators haven't done nominations yet, we know that his best chance was with the rep, so he is focusing on Plan B, which is ROTC or MJC.

My question is this...is there someone that it would be best he talk to about all his options? The ROO at his 1st choice 4-year school maybe? He once also mentioned to DS about simultaneuous NG and ROTC...I can't remember what it is called.

 

[QA1517]

This is an interesting thread to me. DS just found out that he did not secure a nomination from our representative to West Point. While our two senators haven't done nominations yet, we know that his best chance was with the rep, so he is focusing on Plan B, which is ROTC or MJC.

My question is this...is there someone that it would be best he talk to about all his options? The ROO at his 1st choice 4-year school maybe? He once also mentioned to DS about simultaneuous NG and ROTC...I can't remember what it is called.

SMP (simultaneous member program). You join a guard unit while in school and drill while also doing ROTC. If you accept an ECP scholarship it is mandatory. There is also a Minuteman Scholarship which automatically locks you into the Guard.

If your DS wants a sure fire chance of competing for active duty then do not do ECP. The program and possibilities can change and the participants have no control. That is what happened to my son. When he accepted the offer, going AD was not an issue. 1 year in things changed.
Also as far as education, it depends on what your DS wants to major in. If it's anything very complicated go to a 4 year school. Sometimes at a MJC it is hard to get all the pre-reqs out of the way and you will end up taking 3 years at the follow on school to finish your degree. Which is acceptable.

Also if AD gets competitive or Army downsizes, an ECP cadet is at a dis-advantage as they only have 2 years worth of ROTC to accumulate points towards the national OML. Only 1 summer to go to airborne, CULP, or any other program/school.

 

[kinnem]

I don't believe one can enroll in SMP until freshman year. One reason to go the SMP route is that you are non-deployable. The ROO can give you the best explanation of options and the consequentes of each choice. Make sure yo understand the consequences because some approaches can lock you into the Guard/Reserves, which is OK if you want that. Good luck to your son. ROTC is a great program and you do not have to have a ROTC scholarship to enroll.

 

[kinnem]

I don't believe one can enroll in SMP until freshman year. One reason to go the SMP route is that you are non-deployable. The ROO can give you the best explanation of options and the consequentes of each choice. Make sure yo understand the consequences because some approaches can lock you into the Guard/Reserves, which is OK if you want that. Good luck to your son. ROTC is a great program and you do not have to have a ROTC scholarship to enroll.

Sorry, I should have said sophomore year.