5 out of 32 leaving?

kpmom2013 said:
Anecdotally, in my DS's circle, I know of at least one female setback plebe year and one female disenrollment after first sea year for class of 2013.
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Yep, after further reveiw, and anecdotally as well, DS does know about a setback....but that is not a disenrollment.....so, she can still get it done.

The one he is aware of failed several classes not just one.........and got a setback. Every situation is unique and hopefully she will be able to bounce back.
 
kpbaseballmom said:
Conversely, last year's top graduate was a woman with amazing grades! Under any circumstances, this is an extraordinarily difficult school for either sex.
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Yes last year's valedictorian was a woman and her grades were amazing, that said, I don't know if she already had graduated from UT Austin or not but I do believe she already had completed at least two or more years there - where my understanding is she also had excellent grades. I am not trying to take anything away from her accomplishments as valedictorian, I'm merely trying to share some other information that would seem to at least imply there other factors at work there besides merely gender. She likely was more prepared and more mature than many of her classmates because she had already been to college and was indeed also at least a couple of years older. That said I would say that my belief - based purely on unscientific observations - anecdotally - is that the young women who attend both the USMMA as well as other Service Academies do tend to be more driven and focused, at least initially than their male counterparts. That said, there's also more distractions for them to deal with, as well, so they better be.
 
Dis-enrollments and setbacks occur in all sorts of situations. Sometimes they are student driven as was the case when a 3/c M/N left realizing it wasn't for them or mids that have tossed sea projects overboard and resigned upon return from sea, again because they just didn't like it. The "stats" don't differentiate. Academics are generally what eats these kids alive. This is nothing new at KP and seems even more intense as the academic rigors have increased. Additionally, many of the students are totally unprepared for failure since they have been at the top of their class in high school and often ask for help too late in the game. How academic difficulty or failure is dealt with is something that has differed with the leadership at KP. Each situation has historically been dealt with on a case by case basis, regardless of gender. The task is still to graduate the best merchant marine officers anywhere in the world.
 
There are many mids at KP who have had previous college experience before entering, some at NIMMI and many at local community colleges where they took physics and calc 1 for a year or two prior to coming to Kings Point. It definitely gave them a leg up and should be an eye opener to those coming in that if you can work on your physics and calc, even to the point of hiring a tutor before you get to KP, my advice is to do it.
 
Totally agree with Baseballmom. Many with prior college have done exceptionally well but so have those without prior higher education. Prior college or not, male-female, young or old: it all depends on the student and how they respond to the stresses of life at KP.
 
And it's not always only about the academics. Like the previous post says, sometimes people go out to sea and don't like it and quit. DS had a friend recently quit with a 3.5 cum - obviously the academics are not what drove him out. (It must kill the admin when someone doing so well academically quits).

There are many qualities that, to me, get a person through this school and it takes more than just brains to succeed here. You have to be able to deal with the regiment (don't take it too seriously and let the yelling roll off your back), the differences in the quality of professors, tolerate seeing your friends partying at State U while you are locked in the ACE studying, getting up in the dark parading around, cleaning bathrooms at 6 a.m., marginal quality food, etc. But it's the person with their eye on the prize - the license and an amazing future that gets through this place, not to mention a dose of humility to ask for help early and often.
 
deepdraft1 said:
I crunched some numbers for my son's class.. now mind you he graduated 6 years ago, so things might have changed a wee bit, but I would imagine they're fairly close.

graduated in 4 yrs/originally enrolled
total class 185/283 = 65.4%
males 159/245 = 64.9%
females 26/38 = 68.5%
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That's actually that different from these other schools, the only major difference is class size.

1st-yr ret. Rate 4-yr grad rate 5-yr grad rate 6-yr grad rate
West Virginia University 81.0% 29.9% 48.5% 55.9%
Pennsylvania State University 92.0% 60.0% 82.1% 84.6%
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 98.0% 82.5% 91.7% 93.6%
Mansfield University of Pennsylvania 71.0% 27.2% 43.6% 46.6%
University of Florida 95.0% 56.0% 77.4% 81.6%
The University of Tennessee 84.0% 30.0% 54.7% 59.8%
University of Southern California 97.0% 69.2% 85.8% 87.9%
United States Air Force Academy 93.0% 78.6% 80.8% 81.8%
United States Coast Guard Academy 96.0% 74.6% 74.6% 74.6%
United States Merchant Marine Academy 89.0% 63.6% 70.7% 72.1%
 
jasperdog said:
Yes last year's valedictorian was a woman and her grades were amazing, that said, I don't know if she already had graduated from UT Austin or not but I do believe she already had completed at least two or more years there - where my understanding is she also had excellent grades. I am not trying to take anything away from her accomplishments as valedictorian, I'm merely trying to share some other information that would seem to at least imply there other factors at work there besides merely gender. She likely was more prepared and more mature than many of her classmates because she had already been to college and was indeed also at least a couple of years older. That said I would say that my belief - based purely on unscientific observations - anecdotally - is that the young women who attend both the USMMA as well as other Service Academies do tend to be more driven and focused, at least initially than their male counterparts. That said, there's also more distractions for them to deal with, as well, so they better be.
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No substitute for being mature and having experience. Just like life, KP is not a level playing field.....regardless of gender. My guy started there at 17 straight out of HS, zero college under his belt. He is still struggling to get c's and b's and an occasional a. Kind of wonder if the guidance should have been get a couple of years of college under your belt before taking this on. There are many at KP that have done that one way or another and I think (anecdotal of course) they have a MUCH high success rate. Perhaps SA's should look at this type of thing as a model of acceptance to attend and be a more efficient use of our tax dollars (by having less get kicked out or drop out....maybe...before someone jumps on me with both feet....maybe)

Like JD said too, there are many many factors.....one big one, IMHO, is that no one can truly predict how they adapt/like being at sea until they have done it.
 
kpdad2015 said:
That's actually that different from these other schools, the only major difference is class size.

1st-yr ret. Rate 4-yr grad rate 5-yr grad rate 6-yr grad rate
West Virginia University 81.0% 29.9% 48.5% 55.9%
Pennsylvania State University 92.0% 60.0% 82.1% 84.6%
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 98.0% 82.5% 91.7% 93.6%
Mansfield University of Pennsylvania 71.0% 27.2% 43.6% 46.6%
University of Florida 95.0% 56.0% 77.4% 81.6%
The University of Tennessee 84.0% 30.0% 54.7% 59.8%
University of Southern California 97.0% 69.2% 85.8% 87.9%
United States Air Force Academy 93.0% 78.6% 80.8% 81.8%
United States Coast Guard Academy 96.0% 74.6% 74.6% 74.6%
United States Merchant Marine Academy 89.0% 63.6% 70.7% 72.1%
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4 year grad rate looks significantly different than the other SA's to me.......Hmmm
 
2013Parent said:
4 year grad rate looks significantly different than the other SA's to me.......Hmmm
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There's only three SAs listed USMMA, USCGA, and USAFA and the way I understand the data the four year graduation rates are:

United States Air Force Academy: 78.6%
United States Coast Guard Academy: 74.6%
United States Merchant Marine Academy: 63.6%.

Given that as noted the Class Size is very different at USAFA; and that at both USAFA and USCGA there are far fewer as a percentage of the class engineering and/or engineering and science majors the 11% difference between USMMA and USCGA doesn't seem that unreasonable to me - at least not to a degree that I'd draw any conclusions or feel the institutions are significantly different relative to their Academic rigor based on these data points. The four year number basically equates to an average of ~ 25 less USMMA Midshipmen graduating in each class in four years than at USCGA. However, the data also seems to imply that at USCGA there are basically no setbacks so the ~4% fewer that graduate in 5 years at USMMA are so called "setbacks" and mean that of those 25-30 who don't graduate USMMA in 4 years, an average of 17-19 of them have been given an extra year recently and have then graduated in five years. Not sure what that all means with regards to setbacks and the data on whether that giving a midshipmen an extra year is a "good investment" for the taxpayers on not. All I'm saying is that looking at the data and realizing that anyone who doesn't graduate in four years automatically turns into a five year graduate if say they need to delay graduation, etc. to get their required sea days for License, etc. needs to be considered when looking at the data, etc.

As far as 2013Parent's other comment about delaying attending/entry into USMMA, or any SA for that matter, vice going directly from High School, I don't think you can make any broad conclusions or statements. I think the answer is it depends on the individual young man or woman as to wether they need more preparation, etc. I'd also say that if they want to go and they get in directly from HS, I would never suggest a kid delay entering and pursuing their dream. From an economic standpoint, if they get in and they get through and start their career at 22 vice doing so at 24 or 26 the numbers are pretty straight forward in favor of going right from high school.

Getting a few A's, mainly B's and a few C's from my perspective doesn't sound too bad or "out of the norm" for most midshipmen at USMMA. Of course it means that you have to work to make sure you don't "fumble the ball" but from what I've seen that's basically the same for all these kids and not a bad lifeskill to learn early.
 
I agree with Jasperdog to look at the numbers realistically you need to look at only the engineering majors. Maybe a comparison to MIT or other heavy engineering schools would be better.

Also, we need to rememebr the accelerated pace that KP has. I think people hear about it but do not realize the reality until they are actually living it.
 
KP2013Momm said:
I agree with Jasperdog to look at the numbers realistically you need to look at only the engineering majors. Maybe a comparison to MIT or other heavy engineering schools would be better.

Also, we need to rememebr the accelerated pace that KP has. I think people hear about it but do not realize the reality until they are actually living it.
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I agree,the accelerated pace is a big factor. So too are the regiment, food, various profs,sea "year", etc.et.etc. mentioned by others.....these are the identified things that "get" a midshipman. That's the program. It is what it is.

But, I also think that a 11-15% differential between the other SA's is highly statistically significant. It just makes me think....think.... think.... that given all the SA's get the "best and the brightest", KP is simply more of a challenge to get through. IMHO without scientific data.
 
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