7 mids expelled from USNA over Spice

[Luigi59]

KP2001 I’m a bit confused by this part of what you said on post #46… The way I read that is that the AF is testing for Spice but the others branches aren’t is that right? And if so why aren’t the other testing for it?

The AF press release about testing for "spice" was just announced last week in Stars and Stripes.

AF Starts Drug Testing Airmen for Spice
February 25, 2011
Stars and Stripes|
by Travis J. Tritten

CAMP FOSTER, Okinawa -- The Air Force has started drug testing airmen for synthetic forms of marijuana this week, making it the first service to announce such screening.

The announcement came from the Air Force Surgeon General’s Office on Tuesday and is part of an effort by the U.S. military and the federal government to stamp out the new group of designer drugs, which are commonly known as Spice and closely mimic the effects of marijuana.

Most of the military have barred the use of Spice, and in December the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency enacted an emergency nationwide ban on five compounds used to produce it.

But drug testing for Spice has remained rare.

It was unclear Friday whath methods the Air Force is using to detect the ingredients used to produce Spice.

Pacific Air Forces in Hawaii said it could not immediately provide details on the testing. The 18th Wing Public Affairs Office at Kadena Air Base on Okinawa confirmed that airmen there are now subject to drug testing for Spice as part of the service-wide effort but could not provide additional details Friday.

Spice is typically made from up to five synthetic compounds that are sprayed onto herbs and smoked.

The drug produces a feeling of euphoria but can also cause panic attacks, hallucinations, vomiting and bouts of anger, according to the Air Force.

The service said last year that the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology was working to develop a urine and blood test for Spice. In July, a private California laboratory claimed to have developed the first urine tests that could detect compounds used in the drug.

Meanwhile, hundreds of servicemembers around the world have been kicked out or punished for use and possession in recent months, including a high-profile case involving seven U.S. Naval Academy midshipmen who were expelled in January.

The Air Force said in a news release this week that it meted out nonjudicial punishment to 177 airmen and referred 83 to courts-martial for Spice use last year.

About 150 sailors have recently been booted from the military because they used the drug, the U.S. Navy said earlier this month.

http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/air-force-starts-drug-testing-airmen-for-spice-1.135856

 

[Boozebin]

Thanks Luigi!

I just found it strange that all the branches aren’t rolling this out at the same time type thing (since it’s an issue for all of them) but it looks like it’s still in the beginning of what I would call “validating” the test.

 

[Pima]

This is getting insane IMPO.

Am I reading this right, people are actually making excuses?

Have we all started to play put on the blinders?

Seriously, these kids were pushing the line and hoped they wouldn't get caught. Their intentions were not in line with the SA's code.

I have absolutely no pity for them.

If it was our kid, in our house, the SA would not be what they feared the most...it would be us!

I am curious of why people hold this position of the benefit of doubt, because only 2 months ago when Miley Cyrus did the same thing, society was aghast!

Miley did not raise her hand and take an oath. She was/is a kid and our tax dollars don't go to her education. She is young, but are you or I paying for her college education? NO!

These cadets raised their hands. The cadets are paid and get an education via our tax dollars. They were informed don't cross this line... and the repercussions if they did before they signed on the dotted line were clearly stated to them, including getting the heave ho.

They want to be treated like adults and not kids, guess what now you got your wish!

You can't play it both ways. You can't give an SA cadet a second chance because they are 19 and a future officer, and not give it to the enlisted member who is 18.

Sword cuts both ways.

They messed up. I am sorry, but in these economic times with the military budget being what it is, I have to say you WERE WARNED.

 

[CandidateInSD]

I took this off of the official USNA Facebook page, to add to the discussion.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-naval-academy-spice-20110228,0,5651106.story

 

[Just_A_Mom]

Who is making excuses? I didn't see anyone making excuses.
If you are talking about me - I am not making excuses for anyone. I simply own the view that people have rights of which they should be aware.
If my kid called me and told me that she had been named, my next call (or her next call) would be to a military attorney.

It doesn't matter the reason - conduct, medical, legal - anyone being faced with possible separation should consult with legal counsel. This is the time to lawyer up.

kp2001 - doesn't a sailor have the right to refuse NJP and go to Court Martial?

 

[LineInTheSand]

kp2001 - doesn't a sailor have the right to refuse NJP and go to Court Martial?

Yes, unless that sailor is attached to an afloat unit...the command may not grant the request to go to Court Martial. (Idea being, if you're underway and cannot have a Court Martial, how can you correct someone...CAPTAINS MAST! I've seen a few, and they are generally not pretty things, of course, neither are Court Martials!

 

[scoutpilot]

At West Point there is an AG office on post. Cadets are free to go and consult with legal counsel at any time for any reason.
I do not know if USNA has an AG office on the yard but surely there is one nearby. As Midshipmen are active duty they would be eligible for legal counsel - they just need to seek it out.
Another option, of course is a civilian attorney. Many specialize in assisting soldiers and sailors in the military.
JMHO - any Mid (who is not afloat) or Cadet who finds themselves at odds with the administration should seek legal counsel; especially if they are in their 3rd or 4th year at the Academy and facing a huge bill and a dishonorable discharge.

Of course, any Mid or Cadet who faces legal charges is provided with legal counsel.

You're not going to get much legal advice at the AG section. They will look at you blankly and say "this is the personnel section..."

You might have better luck at the JAG office...that's where the lawyers hide out.

AG = Adjutant General
JAG = Judge Advocate General

 

[Just_A_Mom]

My bad. No idea why I wrote AG. You are most correct (as usual!).

 

[Just_A_Mom]

Yes, unless that sailor is attached to an afloat unit...the command may not grant the request to go to Court Martial. (Idea being, if you're underway and cannot have a Court Martial, how can you correct someone...CAPTAINS MAST! I've seen a few, and they are generally not pretty things, of course, neither are Court Martials!

This was previously addressed and we are talking about Mids and Cadets. NOT sailors attached to a float unit. It's good to stay on topic.

Any Mid who is dragged out of his room in the dead of night for a NJP has the right to put on the brakes and demand a Court Martial and attorney.

 

[Pima]

JAM,

That is my opinion. it is not fact, it is my opinion.

We have 2 different parenting approaches

ME:

If it was our kid, in our house, the SA would not be what they feared the most...it would be us!

YOU:

If my kid called me and told me that she had been named, my next call (or her next call) would be to a military attorney.

Neither approach is right, nor wrong, better or worse. However according to the military if you are 18 your are an adult.

I am just saying,

The cadet screwed up, we are not talking students with a 1100 out of 2400 SAT score. They are not stupid, or naive. I have absolutely no pity for them.

Also OBTW, the banging down doors in the middle of the night for a cadet that had an association with a cadet who did Spice was IMPO a little over the top. You actually made me envision Storm Troopers.

your son gets a knock on the door in the middle of the night and is forced to stand in front of the commandant and 'tell the truth'.

As a parent my 1st question would be WHY THE HE** WERE YOU HANGING WITH THEM IN THE 1ST PLACE! Like I stated the SA would never be their fear... BULLET AND I would be!

 

[kp2001]

I'll try to answer a few posts:

KP2001 I’m a bit confused by this part of what you said on post #46… The way I read that is that the AF is testing for Spice but the others branches aren’t is that right? And if so why aren’t the other testing for it?

The reason why they currently don't test is that it is quite expensive and it's not necessary to have a test done in order to AdSep someone from the military for use. I don't think you will see widespread use of the test until the cost comes down and it becomes more widely available.

This was previously addressed and we are talking about Mids and Cadets. NOT sailors attached to a float unit. It's good to stay on topic.

Any Mid who is dragged out of his room in the dead of night for a NJP has the right to put on the brakes and demand a Court Martial and attorney.

Absolutely correct; however, this may be the worst decision they could ever make. With NJP they get an AdSep which really has little future impact on their employability or education other than having to explain why you left the Academy.

If you go to Court Martial and are found guilty you will likely end up with a dishonorable discharge which is horrible on your record.

If you want to look at a recent case look at the case of the XO from the USS San Antonio who declined NJP and went to Court Martial. His case is an example a person who felt they had done nothing wrong in the death of a sailor and who wanted to point out many flaws in that particular ship program. In the end it worked to his benefit. In the case of drug use I would seriously doubt anyone would "win" at court martial and could be setting themselves up for disaster to decline NJP.

 

[Pima]

f you go to Court Martial and are found guilty you will likely end up with a dishonorable discharge which is horrible on your record.

Try getting a job in the "real" world with a dishonorable. Look at most employment applications, and this is what you will see:

Did you serve in the military? Y/N

Were you honorably discharged? Y/N

You say NO to discharge and it is all over.

Remember in the real world they use your SS number so you can't hide that fact.

 

[LineInTheSand]

This was previously addressed and we are talking about Mids and Cadets. NOT sailors attached to a float unit. It's good to stay on topic.

This may be hard for someone who was neither a cadet nor a midshipman...but a midshipman or CG cadet CAN be assigned to a ship, and may be masted.

Hopefully I didn't stray too far of course in correcting for your set/drift. Mind your helm!

 

[Sandbar]

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Synthetic marijuana officially illegal
By Jessica Fender
The Denver Post
Posted: 03/01/2011 02:35:04 PM MST
Updated: 03/01/2011 02:35:15 PM MST

As anticipated, the federal Drug Enforcement Administration today announced that five variations of synthetic marijuana - sometimes called Spice - have been added to its list of illegal drugs.

The chemicals in synthetic pot are created in laboratories to produce effects similar to marijuana plants but remain different enough on a molecular level to escape detection in urine tests.

The formulas are then sprayed on smokable, organic materials that are ultimately sold in head shops as "incense."

The DEA's emergency order makes possessing or selling products containing any of five popular chemical recipes for Spice illegal for the next 12 months.

"Young people are being harmed when they smoke these dangerous 'fake pot' products and wrongly equate the products' 'legal' retail availability with being 'safe,'" said DEA Administrator Michele M. Leonhart in a statement.

The DEA listed the chemical compounds under Schedule 1, the most restrictive classification. The agency and the U.S. Health and Human Services Department continue to look at whether Spice should be permanently banned.

Long before the restrictions became final, head shops in Colorado began selling varieties of Spice that claim to use different chemical recipes than those banned by the DEA.

Colorado lawmakers are working to close that loophole.

Senate Bill 134 in most cases would ban any chemical that interacts with the brain in the same way that traditional marijuana does.

The legislation, sponsored by Senate Minority Leader Mike Kopp, is scheduled for its first hearing March 9 in the chamber's judiciary committee.

 

[LineInTheSand]

NJP is the Result of a complaint or investigation into unlawful conduct and AFTER a preliminary inquiry of the matter.

Never liked the XO standing in the door of your stateroom "I have something I need you to do.."

And the next thing coming was a 4910!

 

[kp2001]

It is important to note that NJP cannot include dismissal from service as part of the punishment. However an NJP on ones record can lead to an administrative discharge (Non Punitive in nature) which can include: An Honorable Discharge; General Discharge Under Honorable Conditions and a General Discharge under Other than Honorable Conditions (OTH). OTH’s can have an impact on potential VA benefits.

By the book correct, but when is the last time you saw someone with a drug related NJP not being AdSep'd????


Here are some interesting quotes out of the JAGMAN for the Navy:

There is no right for an accused to consult with counsel prior
to nonjudicial punishment ; however , COs are encouraged to permit an accused to so consult subject to the immediate availability of counsel, the delay involved, and operational commitments or military exigencies.

the
standard of proof by which facts must be established at mast or office hours
is a "preponderance of the evidence," rather than "beyond a reasonable doubt,"
as it is at courts-martial.

 

[usnabgo08]

Additional notes...

Military Rules of Evidence (MRE) do not apply for Non-Judicial Punishment or ADSEP but are applicable for court martial.

NJP, is considered a purely "administrative matter" and a preliminary investigation/inquiry does not have to occur for a Commanding Officer to consider or impose NJP (normally a preliminary investigation/inquiry happens because of standard practice). The CO could, theoretically, see any personnel out of Uniform Regulations and impose NJP for violation of a lawful general order. This is unlikely to happen, but an investigation/inquiry is not required. NJP can ONLY be imposed by the CO, meaning the Superintendent for USNA -- Admiral's Mast. NJP can be appealed to the next superior in command, for USNA, that's the CNO.

The Superintendent (as other Flag Officers) is a General Court Martial Convening Authority, which means he/she can send you to any court martial, including the most serious without going to NJP. Dismissal from the Naval Service (the ONLY punitive discharge for officers) can only occur at a General Court Martial.

Administrative Separation (ADSEP) for Cause, allows a Commanding Officer to initiate involuntary separation proceedings for a numerous amount of reasons (many pages, in fact) that cover very broad categories. This is a judgment call on the CO and if he/she is within reason (can prove by testimony or evidence), the person will normally be kicked out. ADSEP is also more feasible because it takes less time (don't have to convene a court martial) -- especially if it is a General Court Martial, no Article 32 investigative hearing, you don't have to pull officers from the command to sit on a jury -- don't eat up man hours, etc

Don't forget what happened to the controversial court martial of Lamar Owens, USNA 2005, who was judged "no punishment" by a jury of officers, but who was later ADSEP'd by the Superintendent, a legal option because the ADSEP was simply an administrative matter and a judgment call of the Supe. Owens won the battle, but lost the war.

Point is, even if not found guilty at a court-martial, if the CO determines that the behavior questions the fitness of an officer, he/she can start proceedings to boot the officer.

 

[kp2001]

Illegal Drug Use:
1982 or 1983.....Somewhere in that range. (Don't tell me how old I am!)

Haha.

Actually all this talk of NJP made me go back and rethink. They may not even be using that path at USNA to take care of this issue. It may be a straight ad sep or some other process. I actually didn't even think of that before I started posting about NJP.

NJP may have absolutely nothing to do with these cases. Anyone "in the know" know how they are handling them?

 

[LineInTheSand]

I'm not in the know, but CGA rarely used true NJP....

 

[usnabgo08]

USNA has an Administrative Conduct System in place, which technically, is NJP because that is where authority is derived from (MCM Article V). My earlier statement about delegation of NJP is actually plausible for Flag rank because they can have a "principal assistant" handle that process (we definitely were told by a JAG that NJP can't be delegated, guess that wasn't really true). Thus, the Commandant of Midshipmen administers the Conduct System.

Essentially it is a MCM tailored for USNA, which details its procedures, policies, possible offenses, and possible punishments for handling conduct issues. The conduct system is non-judicial, but states that judicial punishment is possible for serious offenses at the discretion of the Dant (recommends) and Supe (authority).

That is how USNA handles its conduct cases. Since USNA is a training command, they also have some room to maneuver.