A Call to Action

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Oh - and the women I know are still not really laughing about their treatment at the hands of misogynistic men, and neither am I.
 
oh dear

Folks folks folks... EASY!

lets do some problem solving the kings point way:

STATEMENT OF THE FACTS
1. An honor board of three midshipman resulted in a verdict of overturned.
2. A midn actively involved in the case felt that she needed to do something about it.
3. Whether you agree it was right or wrong, this midn did what she felt was the right thing to do and wrote a letter to the alumni containing the things that we at school see and how we feel about it.
4. Whether you like it or not, roughly 90% of us agree with what was contained in the letter.

WHAT YOU (YES YOU!) CAN DO TO RECTIFY THE SITUATION
1. if you are an alumni, you can express your disgust at the situation by emailing or calling either Jim Tobin or Pete Rackett down at the alumni center.
1.b. if you are an alumni and you think this is a load of crap, you can just keep posting here and letting us know. No further action required.
2. if you are a MIDN, you can write a lovely letter over spring break to your company officer (using your chain of command). Please have someone proofread and sleep on it before you send it.
3. if you are a Parent, keep supporting your MIDN! It seems hopeless here sometimes and your support is what we need. You too can email Jim Tobin or Pete Rackett but I'd suggest you don't.


In conclusion, we as kings pointers are great at keeping our ship afloat but we can only do it by working together and doing our job well. if you have questions on what you need to do, please continue to post in the thread and you will be advised.

Folks, I suggest you respond to the call of action but do it in a way that is thoughtful, considerate, appropriate, mature, and thoughtful. KP out (i've got a final this morning!)
 
My apologies

2012AD -I apologize for allowing myself to be goaded. It's probably actually worse than violating the chain-of-command.

I agree with your response 100%

Additionally, for those who think this is the only forum discussing this topic, you might want to check on this for educational purposes:

http://gcaptain.com/forum/usmma/8245-call-action.html

Many of those checking in on that site are likely the real enemy as many of them seem to think the only solution is to shut the place down.

While I have already acknowledeged I would rather see the doors close than see my beloved alma mater become a sham, I also truly want to believe there are positive options.
 
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Concerned Alum-
In answer to you comments about online handle- absolutely no reference at all to Kappa Pi Sigma, as it is known, not Kappa Phi Sigma. Purely a mathematical reference.

Perhaps we were both there.

Problems today - yes. Honor Board proceedings have been overturned in the past. Good precedent - probably not but still has happened. Can the integrity of the honor code be saved, hopefully. It appears that most of the regiment exemplifies honor and integrity. Sadly, according to some the Honor Board has not been taken seriously for some time. Even though KP does not function under the UCMJ, it has since it's inception followed an accepted chain of command. COC should still be followed no matter how frustrated a M/N may be. If the individual had exhausted all proper channels in an effort to obtain transparency, which is unclear at this time, then perhaps the open letter was the only option. While it seems that the majority of the regiment agrees with the authors actions, would this type of behavior be tolerated in a professional setting?


Leadership issues- yes. Any organization, corporate, academic or otherwise that has had the kind of leadership changes or lack thereof over an extended period of time is bound to suffer.


Lastly, you seem very certain the accused are guilty. Were you present; was anyone? Was the decision made without bias? And what was it about the proceedings that motivated the administration to over turn?

It's time to move forward and support the Academy in it's efforts to solve issues and obtain strong leadership. Beating a dead horse is getting no where.
 
KPSQRD, to answer your question as to whether this would be tolerated in a professional setting:

I'm sure you're aware that in the industry when a crew member feels a critical issue has not been properly handled by the appropriate shipboard authorities (i.e. the Chief Officer, Chief Engineer, or the Master as the case may be) that there exists a so called "designated person ashore" to whom a crew member may go to seek proper and effective resolution. In my opinion this seems to be exactly what happened here. Although there is a significant difference between a posting in a public forum and contacting someone that can resolve the issue privately, M/N do NOT HAVE the option of privately contacting someone outside the COC that can actually effect change. Short of endlessly petitioning a heavy-handed and overly bureaucratic system, there are few avenues available when one perceives that one's superiors have abandoned what the organization is supposed to stand for.

A M/N made the best of a bad situation and tried to seek an effective approach to solving the problem by promoting positive talk about how we can solve it, as anyone can see from the posts above mine.

As to whether or not we are sure the accused are guilty, the Honor Board convened felt that there was a preponderance of evidence to indicate that is the case. This is enough to justify their decision to recommend separation.
 
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So who exactly did this letter go to? I have been under the assumption that it went to alumni and that the online postings were not necessarily that of the M/N. Am I mistaken?

My personal view is that the ultimate disposition of the accused isn't as important as the Honor Board having its say. The Regiment weighed in with its opinion and in truth that is enough. KP is like one big Fraternity/Sorority and we the member of Kappa Pi Sigma maintain the integrity of it both as students and as alumni. Just as the strength and integrity of the Honor System lies within itself. One bad decision will only lead to its downfall if the Regiment lets it. The M/N are the glue that holds it together and as long as they don't give up on it then it doesn't matter what the superintendent does.
 
This thread was definitely started with a m/n letter

KPEngineer – The original letter, as seen precisely on the very first post of this thread, was written by the M/N, and published “en-masse” (via usmma e-mail) to the various (~125) chapter presidents world-wide. This was apparently easy enough using some pre-established mass address list that was available – welcome to the 21st Century.

As a secondary statement, your commentary about the Regiment rings true in terms of my earlier position – we expect more out of the midshipmen than we do out of the administration.

I also agree, our discussion is not really about whether or not the three midshipmen are (or are not) guilty. The Honor Board had a finding of guilt and a recommendation for dismissal. The administration overturned that decision using arguments that few on this forum seem to agree with in any way shape or form.

Given the statements made by the administration and backed by the Chapter President, no one checking in here can figure out how the midshipmen could ever be expected to find anyone guilty of an honor board infraction again.

According to an old legal principle – “A law that can not be enforced is not a law.” This is the crux of the problem. This is why midshipmen are printing and distributing flyers all over the campus describing the "New Deal." Since they are doing this anonymously, the administration can not punish them.

Maybe every single M/N should be questioned about this activity. If all of them deny it, then someone is lying; and the administration can put the entire regiment up for an honor board. This may seem glib, but about a year ago something happened that was not too far from such an occurrence.
 
Here is the flyer

Since we can not imbed or attach any pictures/scans, I have done the best job I can with my fat fingers to transcribe the flyer I took home with me from KP:


Now Hear This!
Now Hear This!

Commit any Honor Violation!

Even a guilty verdict from your Honor Board hearing will result in

NO PUNISHMENT!
Lie, Cheat, or Steal!


Special offer for females:
Lie, Cheat, AND Steal!
 
The Honor system needs to be redone

If the academy did go under, what would happen to the rest of the midshipmen who were currently attending?

While at Kp I saw 2 gross examples of misconduct by the honor board itself. This is a prime example of why Kp needs to recruit high quality students and expel or kickout those that dont live up to any standards. For once lets raise the standards, instead of letting lazy, lying, stealing, greedy, students take advantage of the rest.
 
Not so Random thoughts:

It's nothing new. Seen it before and will see it again.

Girls getting lighter treatment happens all the time in all facets of life. It is just the 21st Century reality. Stop complaining about it, keep doing your job and life will still be OK.

I don't consider keeping the alumni informed of what is going on at KP going "outside the Chain of command".

How exactly do you follow the chain of command when the the problem IS the chain of command?

I am dissapointed in and don't condone the Superindents decision but I can understand it.

I'm not sure the Honor Code ever had a tolerance clause

And lastly but most importantly ...

The only way the M/N lose control of the Honor System is to let this affect future cases. Continue judging your peers by the same standard, continue referring warranted cases for disenrollment and it will continue to be Our/Your system. The day you let an outside entity (Lawyers and/or the Administration) control what YOU do is the day the Honor System dies. Keep up the good fight ... That is the legacy we have left you
 
Separate but definitely related issue: Next rotation of regimental officer positions due to be announced soon. Who is going to want the honor board position now? It's a huge time commitment, and with this latest debacle, I am guessing they will have trouble filling the position.
 
Separate but definitely related issue: Next rotation of regimental officer positions due to be announced soon. Who is going to want the honor board position now? It's a huge time commitment, and with this latest debacle, I am guessing they will have trouble filling the position.

They won't have trouble. If no one goes for it, they'll find someone that had a disciplinary problem in the past and "suggest" they take the position(s).
 
Thanks KPEngineer for your not so random thoughts.
Especially......

"The only way the M/N lose control of the Honor System is to let this affect future cases. Continue judging your peers by the same standard, continue referring warranted cases for disenrollment and it will continue to be Our/Your system. The day you let an outside entity (Lawyers and/or the Administration) control what YOU do is the day the Honor System dies. Keep up the good fight ... That is the legacy we have left you"


I sent your words onto my son (2013- presently assigned to sea) in response to a note he sent to me saying -

"This whole thing is stupid, the adults and alumni are breaking our school".

Your words serve as a good reminder for my D/S and his sea partners to keep up the good fight and live up to the KP motto. Sometimes it becomes the tail wagging the dog. We / they need to be reminded that the M/N are KP, and even if the "Adults" screw things up, they must continue to move forward.
 
And I almost forgot ...

The difference between KP and the other SAs is that the other Superintendants report to someone wearing their same uniform who likely went to that SA. Our superintendant reports to a Politician in DC
 
I'm impressed

From what I read, 2012Engineer and 2012AD ought to think about coming back as Superintendent or Commandant after 20 or so successful years at sea. Good, solid thought processes. Hope you're teaching the same to
my 3/c.
 
Admin Response

For what it's worth, I "copied" this from another Forum (I assume it is actually from Dr. Kumar) ....

Response from Dr. Shashi Kumar, Master Mariner - Interim Superintendent, regarding the Honor Code case. Dr. Kumar writes (022512):

“There are two sides to every story. If I am guilty of anything, it is upholding the Constitution of the U.S. I believe everyone is innocent until proven guilty, and in this case, guilt was not established. I have an obligation to take care of every MIDN here, and not one group or the other. I will never take disenrolling a MIDN lightly. It is important that honor board hearings follow the due process and that there is a preponderance of evidence against the accused prior to a disenrollment decision. Let alone the absence of such evidence, there were far too many violations of due process in this case as well, including the Honor Board Chair’s active participation in the deliberations despite being told to recuse (because of advers"luxi-sans-1" relations with at least one of the accused). So, regardless of which way I decided, this was bound to upset someone.”

”The Honor Board decision and all related materials were thoroughly reviewed by the Acting Commandant for a full three week period. He observed a variety of problems and hence, overruled the Board. Once it came to me for my final decision, I reviewed the materials for a good couple of days. Given the complexity of the case, I sought legal assistance from the Academy Attorney who reviewed it and agreed with the Commandant. So, after two levels of mature review and counsel, I decided to overrule the Honor Board decision.”

”Everyone did a lot of hard work but we need to move on. So, during the last two days, the Commandant, the Attorney and I met with all key players including the jurors and Honor Board members, and explained to them our rationale for overruling their decision. We also wanted to use this as a learning experience for all with the objective of making our processes better, including clarifying the Honor Manual and paying attention to due process in these proceedings.”
 
KPEngineer – I like this turn of discussion very much. I am still in contact with members of the board, and have passed your positive advice and comments to Board Members, who are very gratified to know that many alumni are not blaming them for “blowing the case.” Believe it or not, beaten and scarred, they still feel like they have work to do.
 
So I just want to be on record as clearly throwing the BS flag down on the whole Chain of Command part of this thread, oh and I can do that with a clear mind with either my Alumni or Parent hat on.

That said I also want to say can anybody shed some light on the preponderance of procedural issues the Acting Supe refers to in his explanation? I'm asking NOT because I want to dispute him. In fact at the last Alumni Leadership Conference I talked with him and told him how i feel about him - it's a lot of respect. The fact is I think he's a great dean and he's had 2+ jobs for as much of his tenure as he's been allowed to focus on the real job he has and is qualified for - Dean. Again, I'll do that with my parent or my alumni hat on.

The mid'n who wrote the letter has courage, honor but my issue is looking at this is how best to get the results you all want? I don't see that letter as doing it. Nor do I see writing to Jim Tobin or Pete Rackett; or Charlie Hill who if I had to hazard a guess agrees with the letter writing Mid'n.

Also throwing the BS flag on "ConcernedAlumni"'s reference to GCaptain - who cares what GCaptain says, they bash KP whenever they can. It's a biased low traffic site.

The problem with turning the light on in a mushroom patch is it exposes all the crap the mushrooms are growing in. More and more of this piling on stuff is just sloshing the crap around and to what end?

Oh and I threw the BS flag down on the Chain of Command discussion because USMMA is a Maritime not a Military Academy.
 
Of related discussions and protocols

Hmmm… well I actually had no idea who “gcaptain” is, just pointed out something that was easy enough to find using a few key words -- to show how this is not the only forum discussing this issue. I would be glad to believe the site is useless after seeing the commentary on it. My apologies to anyone offended by having me direct them to a contaminated and offensive site.

But, I do know from work-related e-mails that the response is being widely distributed. Showing evidence of that would have been a lot harder in this forum. My real points are that many other people are talking about this as well, and many of them would operate from the one fundamental position they already had to begin with – they want to just shut the place down. Despite the rhetoric from MARAD, I have no reason to believe they really want KP to continue either.

Now, to answer any questions about what written guidance the M/N have, here is a link to the 71 page Honor Manual, from the Academy web-site. Maybe people should download it now so they can compare the “enhancements” promised later:

http://www.usmma.edu/life/regiment/images/MIDSHIPMAN HONOR MANUAL 8-7.pdf

After reviewing the manual and consulting further with M/N involved, I would conclude they followed every procedure given to them. By now with my writings, it should be pretty clear that I am biased. I am biased to be more likely to believe the word(s) of the extremely honorable midshipmen I personally have come to know over the last few years. These midshipmen do not just talk the talk, they walk the walk.

We may not be a military academy, but I (as well as many of my fellow KP’ers) fulfilled a complete Naval Reserve career after graduation. I was never mobilized, but many of my friends were. The “quasi-military” training at KP helped a lot (although in my first assignment when I said “Yes sir” to a chief I learned a lot about protocol I did not know before – very fast).
 
Lots of good posts supporting individual positions.

Not seeing many posts offering solutions.

Maybe it would be best if the mids worked together and solved this.

But I have to ask is how anyone could put themselves in a position to even be accused of such indiscretions.

Again, maybe it would be best if the mids worked together and solved this.
 
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