A Complicated ARI for NROTC MIDN

U

usmcwannabe

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Hey everyone,

I am a MIDN 4/C marine option, (on scholarship) and I had a pretty wild weekend and need some guidance.

I had purchased 12 beers Friday night, and on Saturday night after navy won, I gave my friend a beer. he had gone through a breakup previously but as the night went on, he drank more and became suicidal. I had 1.5 beers up to this point, where I completely stopped drinking. He attempted self-harm, and I wrestled him on the ground for an hour before another MIDN 4/C, who didn't drink at all, made the decision, which I agreed with, to call 911. We did and the cops came to our assistance and were extremely understanding. They calmed the suicidal MIDN down, and said we did the right thing, and I was completely upfront about the situation. They, along with the RA, were gracious enough to not record any evidence of alcohol at all. I threw the remainder of the alcohol out at a dumpster, which one of the officers said to, and kept a night watch on the suicidal MIDN, who happens to also be my best friend here.

The following day, we encouraged the suicidal MIDN to talk to the MOI, because he could definitely offer resources, and he did and explained the entire story to him, which was not required as there was absolutely no evidence of alcohol in the police reports. Me and the MIDN who called 911 also had a meeting and I was told I would be getting an ARI and possibly a PRB. A little background, I have 5 chits in my file, and my academics don't look like they'll be super great this semester, although I think I will steer clear of academic minimums.

I gave a written statement recounting the entire thing and I told my MOI I will fully cooperate. Does anyone know what else I can do? Is it time for me to start lining up to enlist? I have a reputation for putting out a lot and pushing hard in PT and knowledge advancements but I am also a kinda dumb screw up.

Thanks yall.
 
I don’t know how much of a problem an under-aged drinking violation is. But it sounds like you acted commendably in taking care of your fellow marine. I hope that goes to your credit. Obviously you don’t owe the Marines any time at this point as you are a freshman, so no need to run out and enlist yet. Just work extra hard and ask your MOI to give you another chance.
 
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usmcwannabe said:
Hey everyone,

I am a MIDN 4/C marine option, (on scholarship) and I had a pretty wild weekend and need some guidance.

I had purchased 12 beers Friday night, and on Saturday night after navy won, I gave my friend a beer. he had gone through a breakup previously but as the night went on, he drank more and became suicidal. I had 1.5 beers up to this point, where I completely stopped drinking. He attempted self-harm, and I wrestled him on the ground for an hour before another MIDN 4/C, who didn't drink at all, made the decision, which I agreed with, to call 911. We did and the cops came to our assistance and were extremely understanding. They calmed the suicidal MIDN down, and said we did the right thing, and I was completely upfront about the situation. They, along with the RA, were gracious enough to not record any evidence of alcohol at all. I threw the remainder of the alcohol out at a dumpster, which one of the officers said to, and kept a night watch on the suicidal MIDN, who happens to also be my best friend here.

The following day, we encouraged the suicidal MIDN to talk to the MOI, because he could definitely offer resources, and he did and explained the entire story to him, which was not required as there was absolutely no evidence of alcohol in the police reports. Me and the MIDN who called 911 also had a meeting and I was told I would be getting an ARI and possibly a PRB. A little background, I have 5 chits in my file, and my academics don't look like they'll be super great this semester, although I think I will steer clear of academic minimums.

I gave a written statement recounting the entire thing and I told my MOI I will fully cooperate. Does anyone know what else I can do? Is it time for me to start lining up to enlist? I have a reputation for putting out a lot and pushing hard in PT and knowledge advancements but I am also a kinda dumb screw up.

Thanks yall.
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to clarify, the enlisting part is if I get separated, I am probably gonna drop out and enlist, because, frankly, the only thing I want to do is become a Marine. I'll try and become a MECEP afterward, they have served as excellent mentors to me and I will still be able to become an officer and lead marines.
 
Difficult to gage how a potential PRB might go without knowing what the "5 chits" were about. Uniform infractions, showing up late, or conduct issues? We don't need to know on here, but the substance matters.

As for what happened that day, if I am tracking, you purchased beer as a freshman, which means you were underage. Sounds like another Mid also engaged in underage drinking.

Calling the police/EMT was likely the thing to do under the circumstances. Also calling either MOI or AMOI would have been better. As to whether or not the police made no mention of it in a police report, that depends if it was campus police or not. At my campus, I can promise you they document it. They do it because if it happens again, and the RA brings up this happens often, they have some tough questions to answer.

If it gets to a point where a PRB is scheduled, make sure you are aware of your responsibilities as well as your rights. There is a section in your post about......."he did and explained the entire story to him, which was not required as there was absolutely no evidence of alcohol in the police reports.", which sounds as though you are saying, if there is no evidence, then keep quiet about it. If I were your PNS, I would ask how you define integrity.

I am not saying this to be mean, but if you don't understand that, and if you provide that mindset during any of your disciplinary proceedings, whether or not there would be an opportunity to enlist can be decided on that basis.
 
GWU PNS said:
Difficult to gage how a potential PRB might go without knowing what the "5 chits" were about. Uniform infractions, showing up late, or conduct issues? We don't need to know on here, but the substance matters.

As for what happened that day, if I am tracking, you purchased beer as a freshman, which means you were underage. Sounds like another Mid also engaged in underage drinking.

Calling the police/EMT was likely the thing to do under the circumstances. Also calling either MOI or AMOI would have been better. As to whether or not the police made no mention of it in a police report, that depends if it was campus police or not. At my campus, I can promise you they document it. They do it because if it happens again, and the RA brings up this happens often, they have some tough questions to answer.

If it gets to a point where a PRB is scheduled, make sure you are aware of your responsibilities as well as your rights. There is a section in your post about......."he did and explained the entire story to him, which was not required as there was absolutely no evidence of alcohol in the police reports.", which sounds as though you are saying, if there is no evidence, then keep quiet about it. If I were your PNS, I would ask how you define integrity.

I am not saying this to be mean, but if you don't understand that, and if you provide that mindset during any of your disciplinary proceedings, whether or not there would be an opportunity to enlist can be decided on that basis.
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Thank you for your response sir. I do believe in integrity, which is why I believe we did the right thing when we brought it up the chain. Sir, what can I do/say in order to help either prevent a PRB, or help my case out the most? (as far as chits go, they were mostly different minor things, preventable, but minor. I was 5 minutes late to company drill once, 25 minutes short study table hours, things like that.)
 
usmcwannabe said:
Thank you for your response sir. I do believe in integrity, which is why I believe we did the right thing when we brought it up the chain. Sir, what can I do/say in order to help either prevent a PRB, or help my case out the most? (as far as chits go, they were mostly different minor things, preventable, but minor. I was 5 minutes late to company drill once, 25 minutes short study table hours, things like that.)
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Whether or not there is a PRB would be a decision for your PNS. As a fellow PNS, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to give you advice for mitigating your situation. Your best advice on that would likely come from your MOI.

While that process works its way along, I would reflect on how your situation would have changed if your MIDN friend had actually been successful in his self harm attempt......having consumed the beer that you provided. That may seem harsh to consider, but frat house drinking stunts have taken many a young life.

For you to move beyond this situation, your chain of command would need to know that somehow you've seen the light and appreciate the opportunity of the fully funded college experience provided to you. If you read the posts here you can see how hard others are working and how hard their parents are working to get what you have.

I guess I could sum up my advice in two words......Grow Up!
 
GWU PNS said:
Whether or not there is a PRB would be a decision for your PNS. As a fellow PNS, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to give you advice for mitigating your situation. Your best advice on that would likely come from your MOI.

While that process works its way along, I would reflect on how your situation would have changed if your MIDN friend had actually been successful in his self harm attempt......having consumed the beer that you provided. That may seem harsh to consider, but frat house drinking stunts have taken many a young life.

For you to move beyond this situation, your chain of command would need to know that somehow you've seen the light and appreciate the opportunity of the fully funded college experience provided to you. If you read the posts here you can see how hard others are working and how hard their parents are working to get what you have.

I guess I could sum up my advice in two words......Grow Up!
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Thank you sir, and you are very right. There could very well have been blood on my hands had the situation gone differently. I truly appreciate your insights and advice, and I have been severely humbled. I remember how much I had to work in HS for this to happen, but even that would not have been comparable to my best friend's life. I think I am ready to deal with whatever consequences come my way, as I was obviously responsible for my actions for myself and my actions as a battle buddy.
 
my following statement is harsh, but I believe accurate and important for you to hear.

"and explained the entire story to him, which was not required as there was absolutely no evidence of alcohol in the police reports."

This is an extremely problematic way to look at the situation. First off, you drank underage. How you bought the beer is another story... did you use a fake ID? That would enter a whole new slew of questions. Even if you didn't and they didn't check ID, you should not be upset at your friend for telling the chain of command the whole story. If push came to shove and something bad did happen to your friend (which thankfully did not), your LTs could contact the police and ask for the full story. The truth would come out and you'd be double screwed; you should be proud of your friend for telling the full truth when you did not have the courage to do so. Lying by omission, IE: not telling the unit the part about the alc just because it was not mentioned in the report, does not shine a good light on you at all.

If you already have 5 things on your file, despite not even finishing your first semester of school, you need to take a hard look at your ROTC life and getting your things in order.

With all that said, no one is perfect. I definitely was not during my four years, and don't expect anyone to be. You did the right thing by calling 911. The worst I could see is you be put on LOA for a semester, and then just bounce right back. In my personal opinion, I don't think this is anything to be kicked out over.
 
Drinking 1or 2 beers is not what caused your fellow MDN to become suicidal. He obviously had deep underlying problems that would have surfaced sooner or later. This incident may have been the best thing to happen to him because now he is getting help. He is the one who should be out of the program, not you. The way I look at it, you did him and the Corps a favor. We don’t need people with mental problems defending our country. The penalty to you should be no worse that if you got caught drinking a few beers and no one got suicidal. That’s my 2 cents. But my opinion means nothing.
 
I really don’t think any of what we say matters as far as what you are looking to hear.

Man (or woman) up and take the consequences. Period. Choices ALWAYS Have consequences: some are good, and some are bad. What’s done is done. Don’t assume anything about what MAY happen. Think about what (if anything) you have learned, how you will be a better officer, and why you should be retained.

Already the owner of 5 chits, and the dismissal of them being ‘NBD’ is problematic imo. As is ‘only a beer’ (although I personally don’t have an issue with a beer…but rather your attitude of minimizing it…same as your other 5 chits. BC in the framework of that, it’s the attitude that rubs me wrong). Everything will probably be looked at in totality, bc we are the sums of our parts.

You are either a leader and future officer? Or you aren’t. You are going to run out of chances to show that at some point. This is about commissioning leaders into the military. Beyond 4 years of school. No one is perfect. But you do have to be seen as a leader.

NO DOUBT tending to your mate was the right thing to do. I hope he/she is healing.
 
NJROTC-CC said:
Drinking 1or 2 beers is not what caused your fellow MDN to become suicidal. He obviously had deep underlying problems that would have surfaced sooner or later. This incident may have been the best thing to happen to him because now he is getting help. He is the one who should be out of the program, not you. The way I look at it, you did him and the Corps a favor. We don’t need people with mental problems defending our country. The penalty to you should be no worse that if you got caught drinking a few beers and no one got suicidal. That’s my 2 cents. But my opinion means nothing.
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I am going to disagree with this. It appears to be a bit of a leap to conclusions, based on very incomplete data. OP does not say how much more his friend had to drink, only that he "drank more and became suicidal". He may have had much more to drink, and/or be inexperienced with alcohol. People's emotions tend to become magnified under the influence of alcohol. This is especially true with young people, who have not finished developing and are, in general, less experienced with alcohol. Jumping to the conclusion that this person is unfit to be a Marine officer based on this incident alone seems short sighted. This may well have been the alcohol fueled ramblings and impulsive behavior of a young person who was upset over a break-up and experiencing alcohol early in his life. Throw in the fact he is in his first semester away from home and all the emotions young people feel around that.
 
usmcwannabe said:
Hey everyone,

I am a MIDN 4/C marine option, (on scholarship) and I had a pretty wild weekend and need some guidance.
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There is some good advice that others have provided you here. While none of us know the whole story- only you are privvy to that. However, should you be faced with a PRB, you need to take action to respond to it like a leader- since that is what you are training to do going forward. You will be required to prepare a statement at the PRB. More importantly, this opportunity is for you to self-reflect on your commitment to the program. What are the reasons you applied for it to begin with? What are your reasons now that you are actually in the program? If you wish to continue and become a future leader in the Marines, you will need to fall on your sword- admit your shortcomings. Then- you need a plan moving forward on HOW you are going to fix or correct your prior mistakes. A concrete plan that owns your mistakes, and sets forth what you will proactively do going forward to be the better student, nrotc mid, and future leader. Not just generic apologies for poor choices. why did you make the first choice to buy beer? why did you share it? what about the other bad 'marks' against you? etc. What will you do to not repeat these actions and perhaps even more importantly, what you may have learned from your mistakes. Lastly, if you are scheduled for a PRB, you may want to review your file at the unit, first, so that you may better understand what areas of concern the unit may have about you.
Best of luck to you no matter the outcome. Focus on your studies for the time being, and learn from your mistakes.
 
Hello Everyone,

I want to thank everybody for providing your views and advice. It truly has helped me understand my situation better.

I have done a lot of reflecting over winter break, and I now know that I want to be a Marine Corps Officer more than ever. I have a PRB set for the end of the month, and I know I want to convey my regrets and how I am going to change for the better. My buddy is doing better, his PRB is set for a couple days after mine.

I am going to go in on the strategy of taking, extreme ownership of everything that happened. As a buddy, I was responsible for watching over my buddy, and knowing he had mental health struggles, I absolutely shouldn't have given him alcohol. More importantly, as a future officer on scholarship, I should not have made the poor decision to purchase alcohol from a friend in the first place. I know I have these speaking points, but I don't know how I can say in the PRB HOW I can make a difference, or how I can prevent future lapses in judgement.

As for Academics and chits, I realize the magnitude of each one. I did a lot of reading over break, and it exposed me to how much small mistakes can put marines in danger. I have started waking up at 0345 every morning in order to plan out the entire day on my schedule, make sure I have full gear accountability for everything I will need for the day, and I have enrolled in programs for struggling students to help me improve my grades next semester.

I also checked with my RA, who was present that night and he told me that both he and the cops did not record any use of alcohol or my name because of the State's lifeline law. I am, however, glad that we self reported the entire incident to the MOI because it forced my buddy to seek professional help. It has been an extremely humbling experience so far.

I want to thank you all again, and I am very willing to take more advice, and any PRB knowledge is welcome.
 
usmcwannabe said:
how much small mistakes can put marines in danger. I have started waking up at 0345 every morning in order to plan out the entire day on my schedule, make sure I have full gear accountability for everything I will need for the day, and I have enrolled in programs for struggling students to help me improve my grades next semester.

I also checked with my RA, who was present that night and he told me that both he and the cops did not record any use of alcohol or my name because of the State's lifeline law. I am, however, glad that we self reported the entire incident to the MOI because it forced my buddy to seek professional help. It has been an extremely humbling experience so far.
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Best of luck to you - please write down scripts of exactly what you want to say - you have "a" shot at this PRB. Please also mock interview with someone who you trust - an advocate - for feedback on how you are coming across. Lastly, verbs / words matter - so polish what you say so that you take full accountability for what you did clearly and concisely, and convey what this means to you, what you are doing about it. This is not a dress rehearsal when you get in there. Again best of luck and I appreciate your reflective/ ownership position and sincere interest to move forward.
 
It sounds like you've done some serious reflection on this. I wish you the best of luck on your PRB. One piece of advice I would have is not to even mention the RA or police not documenting any alcohol; the board will know that. Mentioning it could come across as still wanting to get "credit" for self-reporting. Have to followed @GWU PNS's advice and talked to you MOI about ways to approach the PRB? If not, definitely get on that.

As for how you can make a difference; you can be a good shipmate and help others who are making poor decisions that may affect their future. You can share your experience of something that "seemed like a good idea at the time" but could have had disastrous personal and professional consequences. You can speak of how you can draw on your experience to help others from making their own mistakes. As far as how you can prevent future lapses, you can speak about the changes you have made in your routine and your outlook; how being a Marine officer is the most important thing ion your life and the lessons you have learned by potentially having that taken from you.

I have no idea how the board will view this, but one thing you have going for you is that this occurred in the first semester of your 4/c year. Mistakes made early in your training are more likely to be forgiven than mistakes made closer to commissioning, provided your superiors believe you can be remediated through training. The following is taken from the Regulations on Officer Development (ROD) section 6-7:

c. Disciplinary Probation. Generally, disciplinary probation is assigned to students who commit a
single major offense, as defined in 3-19, which does not warrant disenrollment. Such violations may
include minor in possession of alcohol, underage drinking, plagiarism, or similar offenses. This type of
probation should not be assigned to those who have exhibited a pattern of misconduct. Since this type of
probation is designed to provide an opportunity to develop core values and improve moral reasoning, it
should not normally be assigned to seniors who do not have time to be remediated before graduation.

That does not mean this is what will happen, just that this is the philosophical thinking. An LOA (loss of scholarship for a semester) or disenrollment are also possibilities. FWIW, at DS' unit, some 4/c had a plagiarism violation. They were given LOAs for a semester. On of them had a similar violation 2/c year and was disenrolled. If you are given a second change, do not waste it. Learn from your mistake and move on.

If you have not thoroughly studied the ROD as it related to PRBs and the disciplinary process, I highly recommend you do so.

Best of luck to you and I hope you update us after your PRB.
 
You have taken great steps to help yourself moving forward. Regarding the PRB, your personal statement is very important. Taking ownership of your errors or weaknesses in the past and having a concrete plan on what you learned and how to remedy it moving forward is an excellent step. However, if you have not consulted with an attorney to assist you in preparing for the PRB, you may wish to do that ASAP. The cost can be an investment into your future. My DD had excellent advice and assistance for her PRB from an experienced military attorney, and satisfactorily commissioned and graduated college after her challenges. Best of luck to you!
 
Best of luck at your PRB. Personal reflection and genuine growth are keys to these. Stay safe.
 
Thanks everyone for the encouragement. Does anyone know a place where I could reach out to a JAG to learn more? I've read through the ROD but i'll take anything.
 
usmcwannabe said:
Thanks everyone for the encouragement. Does anyone know a place where I could reach out to a JAG to learn more? I've read through the ROD but i'll take anything.
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A JAG will not be able to help you. A JAG would be the military prosecuting attorney. Your NROTC unit will not have a JAG there either. This is an administrative hearing. If you wish to seek legal representation, it is on you to find and hire one for yourself. The role they can actually play at a PRB is quite limited and I believe is spelled out in the ROD. They may be able to help you prior to the PRB to best frame your response though. The choice is up to you.

If you want to go this route, you can run a google search using terms like "ROTC disenrollment attorney", "military attorney" or something similar. Many lawyers practicing in this field are former JAGS.
 
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