A couple of questions about SMP

Again, the regulations are pretty clear about eligibility. Problem is many cadre @ campus never received briefings or a real class about what the regs actually say. Hell, when I was in ROTC my PMS and APMS didn't know that SMP cadets are not authorized to go to CTLT!

Point is - if you look at page 94 of AT 601-210 under SMP eligibility criteria, you must have at least finished MSII with the intent to become an MSIII, or already have enrolled. So, if you're technically doing it right, you can be an MS II early in your spring semester and if you've already signed up for the fall semester MS301 class, you are eligible.

Now - I know people have gotten away with becoming SMP before that time, but be careful. Although it's easy to assign soldiers to the SMP slot through ARLAS system for S1, HRC will do their due diligence. A friend of mine did get his pay docked later retroactively because he received E-5 SMP pay before he was eligible to become an SMP cadet.

Ultimately, you can always be a cadet AND and in ROTC, but there is a specific timeline for the SMP contract that promotes you to E-5 pay & the cadet position in NG/USAR. It's meant to reflect a cadet's status as a leader both as an MSIII in their ROTC detachment and the parallel experience of being a "third lieutenant" at their TPU unit. You're not supposed to receive SMP benefits as an MSI/MSII because you aren't ready (in the Army's eyes) and haven't been put in that leadership role yet.
 
Since we are looking at Regs...here is what Cadet Command reg 145-11 says about SMP eligibility.

The following guidelines are provided to assist cadets, recruiters, RC commanders, and ROTC administrators in determining a cadets potential to participate in the SMP. For an ROTC cadet to participate in the SMP, the individual must:
a. Be a U.S. citizen.
b. Be fully contracted in the ROTC Advanced Course or contracted as an MS II cadet.
c. Be eligible for enlistment in or already assigned to, an ARNG or USAR unit as an officer trainee and have completed an SMP agreement. For ARNG/SMP applicants, the SMP agreement is executed on NGB Form 594-1, which is found in NGR 600-100, Figure 13-2. DA Form 4824-R is used for USAR/SMP applicants. A copy of this form is located at the end of this regulation.
d. Attain sophomore class standing and enroll as a full-time student in a course of instruction leading to a baccalaureate or advanced degree. (Not applicable for students enrolled in an MJC.)

Problem is many Cadets @ campus never received briefings or a real class about what the regs actually say. I'm reading that Sophomores can contract as SMP cadets. Not sure how you got the impression you have to wait until MS III. Since I don't think AT 601-210 governs Cadet Command I'm going to continue to go with CCR 145-11 Reserve Officers' Training Corps Simultaneous Membership Program (SMP).
 
khergan said:
Again, the regulations are pretty clear about eligibility. Problem is many cadre @ campus never received briefings or a real class about what the regs actually say. Hell, when I was in ROTC my PMS and APMS didn't know that SMP cadets are not authorized to go to CTLT!

Point is - if you look at page 94 of AT 601-210 under SMP eligibility criteria, you must have at least finished MSII with the intent to become an MSIII, or already have enrolled. So, if you're technically doing it right, you can be an MS II early in your spring semester and if you've already signed up for the fall semester MS301 class, you are eligible.

Now - I know people have gotten away with becoming SMP before that time, but be careful. Although it's easy to assign soldiers to the SMP slot through ARLAS system for S1, HRC will do their due diligence. A friend of mine did get his pay docked later retroactively because he received E-5 SMP pay before he was eligible to become an SMP cadet.

Ultimately, you can always be a cadet AND and in ROTC, but there is a specific timeline for the SMP contract that promotes you to E-5 pay & the cadet position in NG/USAR. It's meant to reflect a cadet's status as a leader both as an MSIII in their ROTC detachment and the parallel experience of being a "third lieutenant" at their TPU unit. You're not supposed to receive SMP benefits as an MSI/MSII because you aren't ready (in the Army's eyes) and haven't been put in that leadership role yet.
Click to expand...

OK, I'm confused.

On a different board you stated that you just completed LDAC this past summer, in this post you mention "When I was in ROTC". Were you an end of camp commission and have already graduated or are you a current MS4.

Not quite sure where you get the idea that as you say...."You're not supposed to receive SMP benefits as an MSI/MSII because you aren't ready (in the Army's eyes) and haven't been put in that leadership role yet"

SMP cadets have been contracting at the beginning of their sophomore year for as long as my 2 son's have been in ROTC. One SMP cadet contracted this morning at my son's battalion as a MS2, this is the beginning of his sophomore year.

Granted that there are some SMP cadets that do not start receiving the GI Bill and Kicker until they start their MS3 year because they did the split option and did BCT the summer after their freshman yr. and AIT the summer after their sophomore yr. This does not mean they can't contract at the beginning of their MS2 yr. and start receiving the AROTC Stipend. Of courese there are SMP cadets that never go to BCT or AIT, they also are able to contract at the beginning of their MS2 yr.

There is the chance that no contracts are available or that there are too many SMP cadets for the amount of contracts the battalion has to offer. In that case the SMP cadet may not be able to contract their MS2 yr, there is also a chance they mey never contract if there are no contracts available. There have been a couple posts on this board last year that talked about some SMP cadets that took the GRFD Scholarship at the end of their MS2 year because the battalion did not have any contracts available, they did this to stay in the program though now they are locked to NG or Reserves.

Thanks for clearing things up Clarkson, I think there may have been a few SMP cadets that were getting a bit nervous.
 
clarksonarmy said:
Since we are looking at Regs...here is what Cadet Command reg 145-11 says about SMP eligibility.

The following guidelines are provided to assist cadets, recruiters, RC commanders, and ROTC administrators in determining a cadets potential to participate in the SMP. For an ROTC cadet to participate in the SMP, the individual must:
a. Be a U.S. citizen.
b. Be fully contracted in the ROTC Advanced Course or contracted as an MS II cadet.
c. Be eligible for enlistment in or already assigned to, an ARNG or USAR unit as an officer trainee and have completed an SMP agreement. For ARNG/SMP applicants, the SMP agreement is executed on NGB Form 594-1, which is found in NGR 600-100, Figure 13-2. DA Form 4824-R is used for USAR/SMP applicants. A copy of this form is located at the end of this regulation.
d. Attain sophomore class standing and enroll as a full-time student in a course of instruction leading to a baccalaureate or advanced degree. (Not applicable for students enrolled in an MJC.)

Problem is many Cadets @ campus never received briefings or a real class about what the regs actually say. I'm reading that Sophomores can contract as SMP cadets. Not sure how you got the impression you have to wait until MS III. Since I don't think AT 601-210 governs Cadet Command I'm going to continue to go with CCR 145-11 Reserve Officers' Training Corps Simultaneous Membership Program (SMP).
Click to expand...


You just posted exactly what I said, rephrased. There are two criteria:

You can

A) Be an MSIII and SMP

or

B) Be an MSII who is enrolled in the MSIII class and be SMP.

That is what I said above. Again, the intent is for people either currently in or soon to be in the Advanced Course.

Again, if you are tracking as an MS2, doing well and get the green light to go ahead and sign up for MSIII in the Spring. As soon as you do so, according to regulation, you are eligible. I didn't think I'd have to quote stuff, but since you're doing it, we can do more:

From the 4824-r:

f. I understand if I am accepted for participation in the ROTC/SMP and do not apply for enrollment in the ROTC Advanced Course, I will be dropped as a potential ROTC/SMP participant and retained in the unit in an enlisted status until
completion of my military service obligation (statutory or contractual). I will also be required to undergo any initial active duty for training not
previously completed

g. I understand if I enlist directly for participation in the ROTC/SMP and I apply but am not accepted for enrollment in the ROTC
Advanced Course (see eligibility requirements, paragraphs 3 51 and 3-17, AR 145-1) I will, at my request be retained in the unit, or be honorably discharged.
If I am retained in an enlisted status I will be dropped as a potential ROTC/SMP participant and required to complete an initial
active duty for training not previously completed.

h. I understand if I enlisted under any other enlistment program or option and was selected for ROTC/SMP participation and I do not apply for enrollment in the ROTC Advanced Course within one year following my selection, or I am not accepted for enrollment in the ROTC Advanced Course, I will be dropped as a potential ROTC/SMP participant and retained in an enlisted status until completion of my military service obligation.

i. I understand that if I am disenrolled from Advanced ROTC, or fail to complete the ROTC Advanced Course, I will be dropped from and, if otherwise qualified, retained in the unit in an enlisted status until completion of my military service obligation (statutory or contractual). I must undergo initial active duty for training if not previously completed. I will be administratively reduced immediately to the grade and rank authorized by AR 140-158.

j. I understand that if I fail to volunteer for the ROTC Early Commissioning program (ECP), or fail to accept a commission, or fail to be
apply for enrollment in the ROTC Advanced Course within one year following my selection, or I am not accepted for enrollment in the ROTC
Advanced Course, I will be dropped as a potential ROTC/SMP participant and retained in an enlisted status until completion of my military
service obligation (statutory or contractual).

^

There, for a third time - you CAN be an MS2 and contract SMP, so long as you are enrolled for MS3 class. Just like I said in my original post, just be careful when doing so, because HRC monitors this status. If you contract early and never end up as an MS3 or are dropped, they will recoup that money from you.
 
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Read b again hero...you can be an MS II, enrolled in MS II class and still contract. You can be a sophomore enrolled in the MS II class and still be SMP...The only thing you can't be is an MS I/freshman. Trust me, we contract 2 or 3 SMP sophomores every year.
If you read paragraph h of your 2834 you'll see you have a year to enroll in the advanced course, the MS III class. Hence you can contract at the beginning of sophomore year while enrolled in MS II class. If you don't sign up for MS III class within one year you will be disenrolled.
 
Clarkson, do you ever feel like pounding your head against a wall.

Khergan,

Nothing that you posted, and gee thanks for all that, says anywhere that a cadet can't contract at the beginning of their sophomore year. All any of those reqs say is that if the cadet does not continue on to the Advanced course the cadet will be removed from the program and will be required to fulfill their enlistment agreement.

The SMP cadet can be contracted at the beginning of their sophomore year, they receive the ROTC stipend and can participate in events that require a contract. Since they contract in the fall they are not required to be enrolled in the MS3 Advanced course at that time since registration is not until the spring. These SMP cadets will have all the benefits of the contract at the start of their sophomore year as long as they pass the APFT and have all their paperwork.

Nobody is arguing that a SMP cadet is required to sign up and continue on to the Advanced course, thats a given.

The same type of requirements are given to scholarship cadets, continue with the program or fulfill an obligation to the Army, either enlistment or payback.

Just because it's your third time, still doesn't make it correct.

Anyone reading these posts should defer to Clarksonarmy on this one. The Gentleman is the Enrollement Officer for an AROTC Battalion and is a wealth of information on this site.
 
Agreed, Clarksonarmy knows his stuff. Our personal experience is our son joined the Reserves end of senior year, did Split Option with BCT that summer and AIT the following. Contracted SMP beginning of his sophomore year. He was actually offered a 3-yr AD scholarship while in BCT, so in the end he took the scholarship, which was converted to the GRFD. His scholarship benefits, stipend, etc all started as MSII. He is now starting MSIII as well as being a cadet in his Reserves unit.
 
"Anyone reading these posts should defer to Clarksonarmy on this one. The Gentleman is the Enrollement Officer for an AROTC Battalion and is a wealth of information on this site." Dito

I am a Senior ROTC BN HRA and everything he has posted is 100% correct and true. My recommendation to anyone interested in the SMP program to schedule a visit with the program of your choice. There are loads of options when discussing contracting opportunities with ROTC and they should all be considered. O7
 
^ well, there you have it. I guess Clarkson knows a thing or two after all.
 
Thanks for the vote of confidence guys...much obliged!
 
TWolve35 said:
"Anyone reading these posts should defer to Clarksonarmy on this one. The Gentleman is the Enrollement Officer for an AROTC Battalion and is a wealth of information on this site." Dito

I am a Senior ROTC BN HRA and everything he has posted is 100% correct and true. My recommendation to anyone interested in the SMP program to schedule a visit with the program of your choice. There are loads of options when discussing contracting opportunities with ROTC and they should all be considered. O7
Click to expand...

Welcome aboard!

Always great to have another member with knowledge of the BN process.
 
Wow, glad I was out of town while this one went back and forth!!! Thank you Clarkson and TWolve35 for clarifing the SMP timeline. I was down at Benning picking up my DS from BCT and came home to read this thread - got cold chills for a second thinking once again something has changed...

DS's school starts Monday -- he's anxiously awaiting APFT and briefing on contracting!!!
 
Good luck to your DS Ohio. Hope he blows the APFT out of the water!
 
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