Academic Disqualifying?

The thing that irks me is I want to major is aerospace engineering in which involves a lot of math and science which is what I excel in. The reading part is irrelevant to my future plans but is also inevitable.
 
My DD had the same problem as you. She did great in math and stem classes and sat/act but couldn't get the English grade up and was deemed non competitive. However she was offered the prep and she's currently attending. Perhaps that's an option that will be made available to you.
 
LesakUSAFA said:
The thing that irks me is I want to major is aerospace engineering in which involves a lot of math and science which is what I excel in. The reading part is irrelevant to my future plans but is also inevitable.
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I've been looking into the CRO career since I had a heart to heart with myself about becoming a doctor through USAFA, and I know medical field and combat based stuff has almost nothing to do with finding the determinant of a matrix or proving a system is true, but I also know that if I want to go to USAFA I have to be well rounded. My act math was like 27 or 28 a couple months ago and when I decided I'd do whatever it takes to get into USAFA, I boosted that score up to 33 (after using my break between summer and fall semester to study and review math). Point is, if you decide you want to accept the challenge that a service academy will throw at you, you also have to be willing to step up to the plate. Like others have said, you probly have great comprehension skills, but imo you just weren't prepared for the questions that the act would ask. Hopefully, the admission board will take note of that for your sake.
 
LesakUSAFA said:
The thing that irks me is I want to major is aerospace engineering in which involves a lot of math and science which is what I excel in. The reading part is irrelevant to my future plans but is also inevitable.
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You say you want to be a fighter pilot and that "The reading part is irrelevant to my future plans..."

I STRONGLY suggest you take a look at just how much reading you'll be doing, especially at (the former) UPT. Oh My Gosh. Can you say BOLD WORDS?

Get the reading score up. Really.
 
fencersmother said:
You say you want to be a fighter pilot and that "The reading part is irrelevant to my future plans..."

I STRONGLY suggest you take a look at just how much reading you'll be doing, especially at (the former) UPT. Oh My Gosh. Can you say BOLD WORDS?

Get the reading score up. Really.
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Irrelevant was the wrong word choice. I can read. The test doesn't test your reading abilities; it tests the speed of finding information within long passages. I need to learn how to beat the test, not how to read.
 
That was my 1st thought too fencer.

Lesak,
In case you don't what she means by that, before they even let you up in a plane you will take tests, aka the bold. Place 1 comma in the wrong place and you got the question wrong.
~ At IFT the 1st day there is a bold test. Fail it (score under 80 or 85 is a fail) and you will be allowed to do a retake 2 days later. Meanwhile, everyone else has moved onto studying for the next exam. Pass it 2 days later and you have only 1 day to study for the next exam, while at the same time the other students that passed the 1st exam right away had 3 days to study.

This will not end at IFS, it continues on at UPT and again at the schoolhouse and again while you are at your operational bases too.

Reading comprehension will be part of your life for a very long time. I am not trying to scare you. I am trying to illustrate why it is important for you to figure out from a standardized testing aspect where you are having issues.
~ There will be no superscoring or taking it as many times as you want option when you get to IFT/UPT. Actually, you don't ever want to take it more than once and you want it to be 100 because in that world 1st impressions matter.

I am sure you can do it, and I wish you the very best, but impo, only if you get a way from the idea that just because you want to be a STEM major means reading comprehension is irrelevent for your future success.

Even if you go to plan B (college and AFROTC) as a STEM major, your college will probably be like my kids and require you to take non-stem classes like Eng 101, Psychology, Philosophy, or Sociology as part of your degree.
~ My DS2 is a bio chem major.

A lot of kids think those courses will be a cake walk when compared to taking something like Organic Chemistry, but those profs know that and make sure they walk away thinking quite the opposite. Those classes will require a lot of reading and writing.
 
Lesak,

I think you misunderstood fencer. She knows you can read, she understands that it is comprehension.

Her point was comprehension will be part of your future if you want to be a pilot. Once at USAFA you will take this little test called the AFOQT. Guess what's on it? Yep...a verbal portion just like the ACT and it is timed.

Later on for the rated selection board you will take the TBAS. Also timed.

The sooner you find where the issue is for you than the better off you will be.

Part of the reason Prep school options are offered impo, is because they look at the candidate and say...if only for this one small aspect was better we would give them an appointment, such as the case for afmom. They are giving her a year to get that aspect fixed because they know as soon as cadets hit the ground, the academic rigor and lifestyle will be nothing like they have ever endured before in their life. They want everyone to succeed.
~ It is also why many prepsters are very successful at the SAs. That extra year helps a lot because come the following year, they not only have the academics down, but have lived a way from home in this type of environment and emotionally/mentally are prepared better for what is to come next.
 
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Pima said:
Lesak,

I think you misunderstood fencer. She knows you can read, she understands that it is comprehension.

Her point was comprehension will be part of your future if you want to be a pilot. Once at USAFA you will take this little test called the AFOQT. Guess what's on it? Yep...a verbal portion just like the ACT and it is timed.

Later on for the rated selection board you will take the TBAS. Also timed.

The sooner you find where the issue is for you than the better off you will be.

Part of the reason Prep school options are offered impo, is because they look at the candidate and say...if only for this one small aspect was better we would give them an appointment, such as the case for afmom. They are giving her a year to get that aspect fixed because they know as soon as cadets hit the ground, the academic rigor and lifestyle will be nothing like they have ever endured before in their life. They want everyone to succeed.
~ It is also why many prepsters are very successful at the SAs. That extra year helps a lot because come the following year, they not only have the academics down, but have lived a way from home in this type of environment and emotionally/mentally are prepared better for what is to come next.
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With that being said, with my below average test score, would you say I may have a shot at the prep school?
 
How can we say? Sure... but offers for the prep school are difficult to predict - as are other offers.

Just get that score up. And start picking up your speed on acquiring info. Even a speed reading course will help you.
 
Lesak, let me provide the "bigger picture" here. You're thinking your test scores will disqualify you from getting an Academy appointment, so now you're asking if they're good enough for a Prep School appointment. We get it, you're nervous that you now face a stumbling block towards your dream. Frankly, NO ONE on here can give you a definitive "Yes" or "No" as to whether you'll get accepted into either the Academy itself, or the Prep School. All you CAN DO is try to give yourself the best shot you can by getting the best application you can, to include your Test scores. From there, it's all out of your hands (and the hands of everyone on here), and into the hands of the Acceptance Board. They will be the ones to review your application from the WHOLE PERSON perspective and determine whether they will appoint you. Just do your best to be as competitive in EVERY ASPECT as you can, and let the dominoes fall where they may.

Now, onto the even "bigger picture". The goal is "fighter pilot", correct? It's not "Doolie", or "Academy Graduate". Those are STEPPING STONES towards your goal. And there are other paths that can get you to that goal, such as ROTC or OTS. If you don't get that Academy or Prep slot, the door to becoming a fighter pilot is NOT SHUT. In fact, you're very competitive for acceptance at most Universities, so investigate that path as well.

Now, as to "I'll never need these classes or these skills in the fighter cockpit" mantra I hear from time to time. Dead Wrong! The USAF expects that you will be able to read as a pilot. It's silly to even consider this as a "requirement", it's just something you have to be able to do. What the USAF looks for in a future fighter pilot is someone who can absorb and understand information quickly and correctly. The fighter cockpit and mission is a highly complex and time sensitive environment, with sensory overload and loads of data that needs to be observed, processed, and acted on instantly and simultaneously with other actions. Take multi-tasking, and crank it up to 11! We don't really care if you can read a paragraph on the dynamics of the agricultural society of the 1750's in the Southern States. But we VERY MUCH CARE that you can quickly comprehend and apply new information; something a reading comprehension test is evaluating. Same with math and the physical sciences. Don't really if you remembered the formulas and mathematical equations to derive Bernoulli's Principle (look it up; something I had to do for Aerospace Engineering 101). What we are more concerned about is that you can think LOGICALLY and quickly to solve a problem.

And you know what? This applies to everything in your life. NEVER think education is a "waste because you'll never use it in real life". Know what we call people who believe that is the case in the fighter pilot community? Not One of Us. Or, Future Minimum Wage Earner.

So, here's what you DO need to be worried about NOW -- do your best, in everything. NEVER think what you have done so far is "Good Enough" and keep striving to do better. Plan for multiple contingencies to get you to your Ultimate Goal, and take each step as it comes. Best of luck to you in achieving that dream of "slipping the surly bonds". The only thing stopping you at this point is yourself, so keep pushing for it.
 
Lesak,

Quick question, what is your plan B? Have you applied for an AFROTC scholarship or are you just hoping for prep as your plan B?
 
Pima said:
Lesak,

Quick question, what is your plan B? Have you applied for an AFROTC scholarship or are you just hoping for prep as your plan B?
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I've applied for the AFROTC scholarship. The universities I have applied to are the University of Illinois and the University of Colorado. The reason I'm very concerned is because I want to major in aerospace engineering, these universities only accept students with on average 32-33 composite ACTs.
 
You obviously have not researched AFROTC scholarships enough....or maybe you are saying your plan B is only high reach colleges.

AFROTC scholarships are not tied to the school, like AROTC and NROTC. You can take it to any college that accepts the AFROTC scholarhip. AFROTC scholarships are also different...get a type 7 and that does impact where you can take it.

Not to divert or be Debbie Downer, but with your ACT scores, I think that at best, a type 7. Avg ACT for type 7 is 29 best sitting composite.

JMPO, but plan B should be enrolling in AFROTC at any college you attend. AFROTC means you get the chance for 1 more nomination next year if you reapply.

Don't give up. There are soooo many times that posters sound negative, and the candidate gets an appointment. The negativity is not meant in a bad way, it is just to get them to step it up a little more so they will be better prepared come IDay.
 
I was saying that my plan B is the two major universities. I have smaller colleges as well for my plan C.
 
Have you looked at West Virginia University? They have a decent aero program and AFROTC. Same with Embry Riddle and easier to get into.

Your back up plan should be something more achievable than USAFA. Like I told my DD, your plan B shouldn't be Harvard (or Georgia Tech) in her case.
 
I read this post and too many folks are getting their panties in a wad! Test scores, GPA, CFA scores, etc. are numbers used to categorize a candidate to rack & stack them. If the OP's numbers are really what they are, he stands a good chance at an appointment, IMHO. Let's get real here-ACT/SAT English/reading scores really have veeeeeeery little bearing on how one is going to do academically involving reading and writing. A better indication is the GPA and the type of classes he/she has taken. Believe it or not, some people just test poorly and it doesn't always correlate to nervousness. In fact, I didn't test well on the SAT myself. I did do well on the AFOQT where it mattered-pilot and nav section along with math. I got my Aerospace Engineering degree and was very successful in pilot training so I must've done something right. Ya'll are splitting peas here! A good majority of the candidates have proven that they can "hang" with the best academically in math and reading since everyone has successfully completed them (most of them in AP classes).
As for reading comprehension in SUPT... let's just say that there are plenty of foreign students who barely speak English who get through the program successfully and become stellar pilots. The manuals and other study materials are written at a junior high level, if that, so no need to worry there.
To the OP, make sure that you have other backup plans in case the academy doesn't work out for you. There are plenty of really good engineering schools out there. Remember, a degree in Aerospace Engineering isn't going to make you a better pilot and it sure will not help you excel in pilot training. It will, however, give you a better shot at getting a pilot slot at the academy/ROTC since the Air Force prefers people who are pursuing technical degrees. There are more pros than cons of getting an engineering degree but you have to understand that it's a long tough road. While your friends are out partying, you'll spend many nights in your dorm studying and doing projects. Also, this is way down the road for you but if you decide that you want to apply for TPS (test pilot school), having this degree will pay dividends. Good luck and Merry Christmas!
 
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6KDogwhistle said:
I read this post and too many folks are getting their panties in a wad! Test scores, GPA, CFA scores, etc. are numbers used to categorize a candidate to rack & stack them. If the OP's numbers are really what they are, he stands a good chance at an appointment, IMHO. Let's get real here-ACT/SAT English/reading scores really have veeeeeeery little bearing on how one is going to do academically involving reading and writing. A better indication is the GPA and the type of classes he/she has taken. Believe it or not, some people just test poorly and it doesn't always correlate to nervousness. In fact, I didn't test well on the SAT myself. I did do well on the AFOQT where it mattered-pilot and nav section along with math. I got my Aerospace Engineering degree and was very successful in pilot training so I must've done something right. Ya'll are splitting peas here! A good majority of the candidates have proven that they can "hang" with the best academically in math and reading since everyone has successfully completed them (most of them in AP classes).
As for reading comprehension in SUPT... let's just say that there are plenty of foreign students who barely speak English who get through the program successfully and become stellar pilots. The manuals and other study materials are written at a junior high level, if that, so no need to worry there.
To the OP, make sure that you have other backup plans in case the academy doesn't work out for you. There are plenty of really good engineering schools out there. Remember, a degree in Aerospace Engineering isn't going to make you a better pilot and it sure will not help you excel in pilot training. It will, however, give you a better shot at getting a pilot slot at the academy/ROTC since the Air Force prefers people who are pursuing technical degrees. There are more pros than cons of getting an engineering degree but you have to understand that it's a long tough road. While your friends are out partying, you'll spend many nights in your dorm studying and doing projects. Also, this is way down the road for you but if you decide that you want to apply for TPS (test pilot school), having this degree will pay dividends. Good luck and Merry Christmas!
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If you are academically disqualified you do not stand a good chance of earning a direct appointment. If you are academically disqualified, I'm pretty sure your chances of earning a direct appointment go straight to 0. The basketball throw from the CFA has very little bearing. But if you can only throw the ball 2 feet you will be disqualified. The OP has thrown the ACT reading section ball 2 feet. It doesn't matter that the section has little bearing. Performing horribly on it can disqualify you and then that little bearing doesn't seem so little anymore.
 
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frenzymando said:
If you are academically disqualified you do not stand a good chance of earning a direct appointment. If you are academically disqualified, I'm pretty sure your chances of earning a direct appointment go straight to 0. The basketball throw from the CFA has very little bearing. But if you can only throw the ball 2 feet you will be disqualified. The OP has thrown the ACT reading section ball 2 feet. It doesn't matter that the section has little bearing. Performing horribly on it can disqualify you and then that little bearing doesn't seem so little anymore.
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Everybody has an opinion and an a**hole. Neither one of us work in the admissions office nor do we set the annual standards. I'm really not seeing the point that you're trying to make so tell me what I don't know.
 
Actually, we are going by what the poster said.

When USAFA receives the SAT/ACT scores, they are listed in the application. If the scores aren't high enough, they are listed in < > with the writing that says 'this grade is not competitive for admission, consider retaking it'. I'm paraphrasing since my DD did the application last year. She did speak with the admission counselor who explained her that if that score wasn't competitive enough and she either didn't pull it up or had a higher score in the equivalent SAT part, she would not get a direct admission.

None of us are seeing the poster's portal and we can only speculate from what he said, but it sounds like in the portal it says that the score is not competitive.
 
afmom2020 said:
Actually, we are going by what the poster said.

When USAFA receives the SAT/ACT scores, they are listed in the application. If the scores aren't high enough, they are listed in < > with the writing that says 'this grade is not competitive for admission, consider retaking it'. I'm paraphrasing since my DD did the application last year. She did speak with the admission counselor who explained her that if that score wasn't competitive enough and she either didn't pull it up or had a higher score in the equivalent SAT part, she would not get a direct admission.

None of us are seeing the poster's portal and we can only speculate from what he said, but it sounds like in the portal it says that the score is not competitive.
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That is correct afmom. That is what my portal says.
 
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