Academy falls short of sub volunteers

Hey I'll admit that most of the female fliers are very attractive...except you still have to pity them because very rarely does the flight suit fit right on any of them. I remember seeing them on base and then seeing them at church or off base and think wow, that is the figure you have hiding under the bags... for females the meaning of wearing a bag is very appropriate!
Oh I should tell you the story of Melanie U....she would make FiFi jealous.

She was also a seamstress and hated her green bags! So...down to the parachute shop she went...

Long story short: she tailored her flight suits. And when she emerged... :eek:

Later...when we had an ORI, the inspectors went NUTS!!! VIOLATION THEY CRIED! YOU HAVE RUINED THE NOMEX SAFETY, ETC...ETC...ETC... :rocket:

That's when the NCOIC of the parachute shop, as well as the OIC of life support came out and showed them how the alterations had been done according to AF regulations, using nomex thread, etc...etc...etc...

Melanie kept her flight suits, the ORI inspectors looked foolish, and a GREAT laugh was enjoyed by all!:yay:

Then Melanie went to UPT as a T-38 IP...we all felt VERY sorry for her students because she was VERY distracting in her "green bags." :thumb:

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
I have to say; I have seen quite a few "Hot" female pilots. And when it comes to the Flight-Suit; that damn thing COMMANDS RESPECT. I don't care who is wearing it.
 
CC:
Are you judging female pilots by their physical appearance or their abilities as a pilot:yllol::yllol::yllol:

I'm joking with you just wanted to see if I could find a chain to yank or button to push.

I have been lax in my duties of bustin on wingnuts.:shake:

Go Navy beat Air farce:rolleyes:
 
I guess the male sailors will also feel more confidant that their sub has "diversification" and that they'll look up to a female department heads [only] just like a black sailer can't look up to a white department head. It works out perfectly unless you were a white sailor that was deliberately trying to take the Navy to the 1950's....dammit!

Oh I know this will cause confusion! If I lost you, I'm only thinking out type...lol...and trying to fit in all the other diversification criteria espoused here. :thumb:
 
You are confused again because you don't like the facts but, I'll play, show me where they "solved" all the berthing problems (aside from just putting female officers in Staterooms on Boomers) and where I was contradictory. I read the article but since I was also working today, I didn't analyze each word as it's not that important to me.

Male and female officers will get the same housing arrangement. Neither will get preference.

If you will open the article again - you can click on the graphic. This shows a reconfiguration that divides a berthing compartment. Men will not be hot-bunked. If you read the article it is stated that is not an option.
In fact, men will come out ahead since they will have fewer men sharing the same size head and # of showers.
This is not rocket science.
 
Male and female officers will get the same housing arrangement. Neither will get preference.

If you will open the article again - you can click on the graphic. This shows a reconfiguration that divides a berthing compartment. Men will not be hot-bunked. If you read the article it is stated that is not an option.
In fact, men will come out ahead since they will have fewer men sharing the same size head and # of showers.
This is not rocket science.

LOL, no kidding? Bless you JAM, you'll try your darnedest to cloud an issue won't you? :biggrin:

I think everyone else here understood that a "sailor" is enlisted personnel, and a "Department Head" is an officer. You're just doing your usual marginalization of an issue where the facts are clear and unfortunately contrary to your agenda.

You might want to read the "whole" article to see the hot racking issues.

The enlisted issue
Bringing in enlisted women is a tougher issue. It’s going to take money, modifications and careful training, both admirals said.

“We’re not going to see a young female sailor swinging her seabag on her shoulder and walking aboard the USS Maryland next month,” Harvey said. “But we will — it will be a couple of years. We have to recruit, bring them in the program.”

Having that lead time, he said, will give manpower planners a chance to move forward “in a thoughtful, very controlled, very deliberate manner.”

Probably the most critical lesson learned in the surface force, Harvey said, is the need to have strong officer and senior enlisted leadership in place before bringing in junior enlisted women.

That’s because incidents of pregnancy and fraternization are less frequent in crews with strong female leaders onboard.

“It can’t be ‘I’m the woman on the submarine’ — that’s just a terrible burden to put on everybody, particularly that young woman,” Harvey said.

He said it will take some time to build a “critical mass” of female leadership needed to seed the integrated crews.

“You’d have to get at least a small cadre of female chiefs or first-class petty officers, and those, of course, would have to come from other parts of the Navy initially,” Donnelly said. “Then they would have to have sufficient time to qualify in submarines in order to have, I think, the credibility as leaders on the ship, and that takes some time.”

Converting into the submarine community at the E-7 or above level would be difficult, according to a retired senior submariner familiar with the Navy’s plans. He asked not to be named because of his continued ties with the Navy.

“Really, to be in the chiefs’ mess on a submarine you already need to be qualified in submarines — if you’re not, you would be a burden more than an asset,” he said.

He said it would make sense to convert experienced petty officers and grow them into submarine chiefs.

But even as they’re building the enlisted leadership picture, officials also must work on the other piece — recruiting junior female submariners from the street.

For many of the nontechnical ratings such as yeoman and culinary specialist, that could be fairly easy and quick, as it would require only about six months at “A” school and the six-week submarine school in Groton, Conn., as happens today with male sailors.

Donnelly said it was too early to say which ratings will be open to women. But over time, all submarine ratings could be open, the retired sub source said.

But to truly build a proper representation of women in the submarine force, the source said, women must be recruited and trained in technical ratings, too.

Training female sailors in highly technical ratings has been a challenge on the surface side. Of the 12,845 nuclear-power-qualified sailors, just 752 are women and 241 of those are in training. Only 22 are chiefs, and two are senior chiefs; there are no female master chief nukes.

Growing female enlisted nukes will take time. It takes about 18 months once a sailor reports to nuclear power school in Charleston for that person to join a sub crew.

Enlisted modifications
The other issue, besides personnel, will be to modify enlisted berthing on the Ohios. Donnelly said the volume of that hull allows for relatively uncomplicated modifications. But fairness is key to any change.

“I would not entertain a solution that forced the men to hot-bunk on one of those ships. So we’ll do this right, and the right answer is give the women their own head,” he said, “and make sure the men aren’t inconvenienced or treated unfairly in any way.”

As they exist now, the modification plans are little more than drawings, as money can’t be committed prior to congressional notification.

“We haven’t actually gone to the ship design engineers,” Donnelly said.

The timeline is somewhat flexible for enlisted berthing modifications, which could be completed on the boomers during their refueling overhauls. The four SSGNs already completed their midlife overhaul and conversion. There are also shorter yard periods when the work might be done, depending on the complexity.

Donnelly estimates the cost of those modifications at $8 million to $10 million. But he offered a warning.

“Those prices never go down,” he said. “They always go up.”
 
Oh and by the way, lets not further cloud the issue by saying "they are working on this "fairness" issue of female sailors" That should read, "hell will freeze over before congress builds a new sub that will make berthing for both enlisted ranks, unfortunately female officers will be our PC solution and it's that, or hot racking for the male sailors and staterooms for the females." :biggrin:
 
"hell will freeze over before congress builds a new sub that will make berthing for both enlisted ranks, unfortunately female officers will be our PC solution and it's that, or hot racking for the male sailors and staterooms for the females."

AF terms.."SHACK"

This is really about capabilities and admitting that the military will never want to bunk men and women together if it is not demanded.

Dream, pray, do whatever you want, but quartering opposite sex in the same area is decades away.

There are women who will make terrific leaders in the submariner world, be it enlisted or officer. HOWEVER, the NAVY must acknowledge that in the submariner world quarters are tight, and the very last thing they want again is "TAILHOOK". IT may have occurred almost 2 decades ago, but it is still a running joke among every branch when they want to slam the Navy. The Navy knows it and they also know the statistics of pregnancies off the 1st carrier cruise...again, carrier can come into port and send them back home, much quicker then a sub under the arctic ice caps. Plus, the carrier had more women. Every submariner is needed to fulfill a job (like carriers), but now if a women gets pregnant, that means they must find another women for berthing issues. Can't put a guy in a female Jo's quarters...can't put a guy to hot bunk with a female enlisted.

LOGISTICS is the problem that they have not solved. IF we are all are asking these questions, don't you believe that these questions were asked at the Pentagon?

Side note/Off topic: Very funny story Flieger...mainly because ORI people take my acronym to the Nth level and back. CC..you are right, no matter what a flight suit enlisted or officer gets respect. When our kids were little they didn't get why their friends would talk about their Dad...oh he wears a bag they would tell the kids...they would sit befuddled and say no he wears a green uniform...only later @ 10 they realized that not everyone wore a "bag". They had low SA.
 
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I think PIMA should be the CO of the first all female crewed sub. She could select JAM to be COB.:thumb::wink:
 
I agree with PIMA, she's 100% spot on.

BTW, if you'll notice, the 12 man berthing area now has less standing room than the 9 man old berthing area. If you've never been on an Ohio Class sub, your scale might be a little off, only about 3 people can stand in the areas outside of the actual racks and that's standing butts to nutz. We're talking real tight quarters and the new female areas actually look more ergo-dynamic.

http://militarytimes.com/multimedia/interactive/sub_berthing
 
I think PIMA should be the CO of the first all female crewed sub

Thanks, but I'll pass, I have problems going in tunnels worrying about them springing a leak!
 
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