Accepted after five cycles of admissions to USMA. I'm a senior in ROTC who would start over.

From A Family of Enlisted said:
Thank you to everyone who has chimed in from their many experiences and backgrounds from young to old, to immature to wise. This decision has been made from the heart, not from the logical brain. For me, I'd have too much to ever quit. My logic is this: when I'm possibly done with the Army, and my retirement has dawned let's say 40 years from now, will I regret not challenging myself to accomplish my dream I only could only imagine when I was homeless? My childhood was filled with parents divorce, homelessness, the challenges of being a minority in a urban city neighborhood, trouble, and being an academically poor student to "fit in" with my friends during my primary education. Once the Army and now hopefully a sect of that institution, USMA, gave me a chance to show how these opportunities have uniquely prepared for leadership of our nation's young men and women it gave my life purpose. West Point is the chance to show perseverance in the face of adversity, a trait that every officer must have. Sure I'm missing out on many financial opportunities, but that doesn't matter to me. I'm sure the 15 year old me wouldn't have ever imagined in his wildest dreams I could achieve an appointment.
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Thank you for sharing some of this with the forum. A lot of worthwhile discussion in this thread. Not surprisingly, USMA admissions knew exactly what it was doing. Congratulations. I haven’t been anywhere near that set of circumstances, so I don’t feel qualified to opine. But, I know I AM ROOTING FOR YOU TO SUCCEED.
 
VelveteenR said:
No one mentioned any concerns about breaking the bank, just an inefficient use (waste) of taxpayer dollars to make a commission investment twice on one person for the sole purpose of indulging that person’s desire for a particular military college experience. Many officers earn multiple degrees at Army expense, but those are usually advanced post-graduate degrees rather than two undergraduate degrees. I don’t mean to be harsh, but whatever your personal reasons are for repeating the commission process, they result in an unjustifiable cost in this taxpayer’s opinion. The military is satisfied with either the academy or ROTC route for producing its officers. Paying twice for the same commission does not result in a better officer.
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This is honestly great feedback, and exactly why I have asked for unbiased support. However there's clear sarcasm in the phrase "break the bank". I still don't think you understand how much nearly a trillion dollars for the defense budget is, and how minuscule my education would be in the scheme of my four years at West Point, during that time the country will have contributed over 3.8 trillion for the defense budget which wouldn't include any raises during that time. For my rebuttal, I'd have to simply say I would commit myself to paying back the funds the Army has provided me in ROTC and commit myself to life long crippling debt. Again, to the many of you that criticize my hopeful decision, it's not about becoming an officer, yes both of my options lead to the same outcome. The United States Military Academy is a lineage of some of the best and brightest scholars, a world class education, benefits of promotion in the Army during the higher O promotions, as well offers a significant boost to your resume in the private sector. Not to mention the sentimental value I have previously outlined, and contrary to belief, it may make me a better officer with the humility I'm bound to encounter. Thank you all for your replies, every single person has a unique view in which I contemplate my future.
 
From A Family of Enlisted said:
However there's clear sarcasm in the phrase "break the bank"
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That is your term, not mine. The cost of educating the entire class of USMA cadets is a drop in the entire military budget. No one is disputing that. I’m questioning USMA deciding it makes sense to bring anyone to the point of commissioning twice as it serves no purpose to the Army, it just satisfies some magical thinking in you.

From A Family of Enlisted said:
West Point is the chance to show perseverance in the face of adversity, a trait that every officer must have.
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And your AROTC commission wouldn’t accomplish the same thing? I think you are imbuing West Point with something it isn’t designed to deliver. Attending satisfies your personal objectives, but it is not supplying the Army with anything more than an expensive O1. Please don’t insult the equal level of humility, perseverance, grit, and integrity of the AROTC officers who are the sons and daughters of many posters here who are every bit as dedicated and committed to serving their country as you are. Once you are out in the big Army, your commissioning source will not matter—just ask any of the experienced officers here—and you should check the threads that provide hard data that commissioning from West Point will NOT improve or speed your promotion path. Your actions and comments clearly suggest that AROTC is somehow not good enough for you and that West Point will give you something your current education and upcoming commission won’t. You may be in for a rude awakening. In any case, my “criticism” is not leveled at you as the reality of going the route you have chosen will take care of any misperceptions you might have and those aren’t my concern. My criticism is with USMA allowing such redundancy with no benefit to the Army as the Army will get you sooner from your current path. This is still a head-scratcher to me.
 
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VelveteenR said:
That is your term, not mine. The cost of educating the entire class of USMA cadets is a drop in the entire military budget. No one is disputing that. I’m questioning USMA deciding it makes sense to bring anyone to the point of commissioning twice as it serves no purpose to the Army, it just satisfies some magical thinking in you.
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Yet you used the term in your rebuttal yourself trying to be sly. Clearly you didn't read any of the points to where I said I'd repay my debts if necessary, as well as the U.S. spending budget for the military during my years at the academy will be over 3.8 trillion, not including raises to the budget. Magical thinking, is quite laughable if you read the context. Guess someone never had dreams of his own where he'd sacrifice being complacent with the status quo. For myself, and myself alone ROTC isn't good enough for me and will never be. I think you mistake me for an uneducated brat, for which you are sorely mistaken. However, I would never disrespect my brothers and sisters who will graduate and commission this spring who I've been through sweat and blood with for 4 years, nor the thousands who have chosen ROTC as their commissioning source. In some facet of your head, I believe you think I've been given everything, to which I would say I've worked for everything ten fold than most of my peers. As well, if again you read the points I stated, during the HIGHER O grades, having USMA under your belt DOES matter. You have heard from the wrong personnel that it doesn't. If your criticism is with USMA, I'm sure they'd be glad to tell you why I have EARNED this appointment and have earned, not given, a chance to be a member of the Long Grey Line. All I was asking for was guidance to as if I could delay commissioning, not criticism as West Point has already given me an appointment, and a stamp of approval.
 
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As a SA candidate, I would like to respect (doesn't mean "100% agree") OP's decision because I trust West Point's fair decision on the candidate's qualification. It would be regarded as a waste of taxpayers' money but West Point that is one of the best military institutions appointed OP... because the admission board must have found some unique values & leadership we can't see and judge here in SAF.

As explained in this forum, many SA graduates would attend prestigious graduate schools but many of them will fulfill only the minimum 3-year (?) requirement on the expensive investments paid by taxpayers. I don't think that this is a waste of taxpayers' money either because they eventually would affect many people as leaders positively, e.g., a long-term positive impact on our society.

My dad told me that Uncle Sam always wins (never loses) because those graduates who enjoyed huge benefits through post-graduate programs WILL pay more money back (e.g., more taxes with the higher tax bracket) to Uncle Sam eventually.

I have thought that it would be great if we, e.g., SA candidates, can get more motivational or constructive advice from parents or experts rather than criticism based on taxes or something else.

However, this is my "personal" opinion though.
 
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So very proud of you. As I am sure your special person who advised you on this dream would be. I would encourage you to sit, and think about what that individual would advise you at this point, knowing how hard you worked to get to this level thru ROTC and how hard you worked to get to the USMA program as well. There is no wrong answer in this dilemma. It's a great dilemma to have, as you will have a great career/life no matter what.
 
The only thing I caution OP is that you have put USMA on a pedestal. I believe the SAs are great institutions, but they have their faults. I am a firm believer that you get out of what put in at a SA. I have no doubt that you will push yourself and seek out opportunities to push yourself. As someone with a few more years than your peers, you will see these faults more quickly than your peers. You will probably have a 17 year old room mate in the barracks who is living outside mom and dad for the first time. You will probably be one of the oldest in the class. Yes, the alumni network amongst SAs is strong. Yes, SA grads tend to promote better at higher ranks (there is data out there on this and it’s really the O-6 level and beyond). I think you will have some shock at USMA when you meet your classmates, but caution you to not make judgement. Many are young and really developing who they are. It takes few months after beast for personalities to return. Best of luck.
 
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@From A Family of Enlisted, I just want to know if you've found out if you can get out of the ROTC commitment.

Clearly, you want to go to USMA, so can you make it happen? If five (5) classes have already passed you by, aren't you already too old to be inducted into USMA? The cut-off age is 23 years old, I believe.
 
@From A Family of Enlisted, I think the entire SAF community is inspired by your tenacity. However, you need to understand any comments regarding the use of tax-payer funds is not directed to you personally. In ten years when you see one third of your pay check missing you will realize this. Even a one trillion dollar budget is created one dollar at a time.

Plenty of money is also wasted through the ROTC program.
Uncle Sam pays full MSRP tuition at private universities where the average student would only pay a portion of the listed price.

Good luck to you!
 
Look at it from a career perspective. You're obviously an intelligent and competent person. If you were to commission this year you would be well on your way to making CPT, if not already in the next 4 years. That is also 4 years time in service if you plan on making it a career. To those who do not already know, West Point does not count as time in service. However, you are able to buy back said time if you do 20 years.

Presuming you're 22 you'd graduate West Point at 26. That would mean retiring at 46 if you do 20 years. Is West Point to you worth 4 additional years to become a LT?
 
Don't be upset or mad at people offering their advice, experience, addressing things that you bring up. That will happen your whole life. Yes OP asked a specific question...but other points were also brought up by @From A Family of Enlisted. This is 'discussion'.

My point was made by @NavyHoops. Just now having a discussion with a parent of a Mid, who has come to realize how 'normal, juvenile, NOT honorable' some of the SA kids are. My own Mid had this realization last year. There are threads here about that on the forums: the falling off the pedestal. You talk about the dream of wearing the uniform, the long grey line, the famous people that have come from West Point. You will experience people that are less than what you present in your comments. Also adding youthfulness into that, make sure you are prepared for the fall from that pedestal.

@VelveteenR was very clear, that their 'problem' is with AROTC/USMA ALLOWING someone who is so close to commissioning, to start over. Not with your desire to attend.

A SA/ROTC's whole reason for being, is to commission officers. NOT fulfill a dream of an individual who desires beyond all things to have a certain resume. A pedigree. Or even someone who made a promise to someone else. You cannot argue that allowing someone to start over coincides with the mission of commissioning officers. I believe that is a very, very valid point. Apparently, it is allowed. No problem with you taking advantage of applying again if allowed. To be clear.
 
Additionally, an Officer is charged with the prudent use of resources. That will be a 'drop in the bucket of a trillion-dollar budget'. So its wise to think about that. an Officer will also counsel others in the use of resources. It's a huge responsibility, especially other people's monies! Whether its $1 of that whole budget or not. Im not military, but I am a taxpayer...

If you think that people here are annoying, comments are unwarranted, then just wait until you talk to your leadership! People here have strong opinions, and they don't have a dog in this fight. They don't know you. They have not invested blood, sweat or tears in you for (now) for almost 4 years!! I'm pretty confident your leadership isn't going to respond with "yippee, yay, where do I sign son??!?' So think of this as practice. There will be questions/concerns.

Good luck to you.
 
Best of luck OP! I hope your dreams come true. Your story is inspiring and reminds me that God has plans for all of us. I wish I had your fortitude.
 
aulusvitellius said:
To those who do not already know, West Point does not count as time in service. However, you are able to buy back said time if you do 20 years.
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FULL STOP!
Please stop saying this and NEVER say it again as it is not true. Service Academy time does not count toward MILITARY retirement at any point even when you have 20 or even 30 years.
The only instance where you can "buy back" the years is if you leave the military (even with less than 20 years) and join the federal civil service and then it counts toward the CIVIL SERVICE time but not the Military time for pension or other purposes.
 
I don't have anything to add...as ceptenca the 4th posterer said I'm just a mom 😊
I am so excited to see that you got a nomination.
Your preseverance and determination to get to this point says a lot about your character.
Congratulations and wishing you the absolute best whatever decision you make.
 
I am neither encouraging nor discouraging your from attending WP. I am saying this just to point out something you may not have considered.
If you opt to attend WP, it is possible that you could get injured seriously enough that you will be forced to separate from WP. Should this happen, you'd end out completely out of the army without reaching your goal of serving.

I say this as a parent whose cadet almost had this very thing happen. My cadet was injured at WP during training. The surgeon told us that he was very close to have a permanent injury which would have caused his career at WP to come to an immediate end. Cadets get injured all the time and some are injured severely enough to be required to leave. Also, some experience illnesses that are career ending. I just wanted you to be aware of this possibility. IT is easy to think that it won't happen to you but it does happen to cadets every year and it very nearly happened to my cadet.
 
This is the stuff legends are made of.

I hope you make it through without injury or change of heart. And five years from now, when you are a freshly commissioned second lieutenant, some captain will look at you quizzically as if you are somehow familiar, a spitting image of a guy he trained with at morning PT.
 
justdoit19 said:
Don't be upset or mad at people offering their advice, experience, addressing things that you bring up. That will happen your whole life. Yes OP asked a specific question...but other points were also brought up by @From A Family of Enlisted. This is 'discussion'.

You talk about the dream of wearing the uniform, the long grey line, the famous people that have come from West Point. You will experience people that are less than what you present in your comments. Also adding youthfulness into that, make sure you are prepared for the fall from that pedestal.

A SA/ROTC's whole reason for being, is to commission officers. NOT fulfill a dream of an individual who desires beyond all things to have a certain resume. A pedigree. Or even someone who made a promise to someone else. You cannot argue that allowing someone to start over coincides with the mission of commissioning officers. I believe that is a very, very valid point. Apparently, it is allowed. No problem with you taking advantage of applying again if allowed. To be clear.
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I'm not upset with others views on my decision. I have the right to rebuttal just as he did. That's how so called "discussion" works. Obviously I know there are people who are less than honorable who attend, I'd be naive to think otherwise, however those people are certainly in the minority. With that logic, why are there even service academies if you're not to have a certain pedigree or resume? That's pretty ridiculous that you believe that the academy isn't there for more than commissioning officers. If you don't think there's a certain pedigree about the cadets, why do thousands apply when they can apply to Harvard or Princeton and go through ROTC? Your very one sided argument theorizes that while my main goal is to be an officer, yes of course, that's why I've done ROTC, but to go to West Point is the very same route and the very same credential and toil towards achieving that goal. It takes a smarter, more physical, more motivated, and a course of adversity that ROTC and OCS can't offer and throw at a a young man. If you really believe West Point is there to just commission officers and do nothing else, you're wrong. As well, I'm not looking to put it on my resume, that's never why I chose to serve or chose to gain an appointment. I never want to be perceived as being selfish. There will always be men to lead in combat, and when my time comes to give my life, I'd gladly lay my life down for the brother next to me or the flag that dawns the red, white, and blue. However I want to be remembered as a man who'd choose the the path of adversity rather than to cruise to an easy commission.
 
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