Active Duty PhD

[Cryptospook]

BLUF: Looking for anyone who might know some hidden options on PhD programs through Navy while active duty. Unfortunately NPS and GEV are not available.

Sorry if this comes up often, looked through past 5 years as “PhD” is too short a search term.

As seems to be a trend for some my focus at USNA was a little… misguided (hooyah 2.63) and never thought I would get back into academics. During deployment had the opportunity to do some amazing research on topics I am passionate about and realized I would like to continue on to getting a PhD in CS or Cyber related studies. Unfortunately due to a mix of reasons NPS is not available to me and most googling can turn up with is GEV, which is not for CWOs. I would love to hear any advice from the wealth of experience on this forum as well as tips from those who had similar academic backgrounds. My boss on uss last ship has a CS PhD and can get solid recommendations from him as well as previous CoCs (O6-O8s) but don’t want to just get into a fake degree mill program like my masters .

 

[Capt MJ]

BLUF: Looking for anyone who might know some hidden options on PhD programs through Navy while active duty. Unfortunately NPS and GEV are not available.

Sorry if this comes up often, looked through past 5 years as “PhD” is too short a search term.

As seems to be a trend for some my focus at USNA was a little… misguided (hooyah 2.63) and never thought I would get back into academics. During deployment had the opportunity to do some amazing research on topics I am passionate about and realized I would like to continue on to getting a PhD in CS or Cyber related studies. Unfortunately due to a mix of reasons NPS is not available to me and most googling can turn up with is GEV, which is not for CWOs. I would love to hear any advice from the wealth of experience on this forum as well as tips from those who had similar academic backgrounds. My boss on uss last ship has a CS PhD and can get solid recommendations from him as well as previous CoCs (O6-O8s) but don’t want to just get into a fake degree mill program like my masters .

Did you use Tuition Assistance on your Master’s? I hear you on the “fake degree mil program” - my sympathies. You probably couldn’t use TA again on a more solid version, but I don’t know the current rules. Is that why NPS isn’t an option for a do-over? Not trying to pry.

How is retention in your community and year group? Any leverage with the detailer to ask for a year to be a full-time student at a better-name program in your field? Or duty in a place which has potential for after-hours attendance? Or a quality remote option from a better source? If you are a pack-plus runner and retention is hurting, exceptions to policy can magically appear. I had a flag officer once say to me that if the policy wasn’t written on stone tablets brought down from a mountaintop by an older man with a long white beard, then there could be exceptions or changes.

A PhD isn’t the norm for naval officers, not a career progression block, but can happen if all
planets and stars align. Of course, you have the USNA PMP prof program, which is its own unique career progression. I hope @USNA_STEM_Prof pops up.

This is the USNA PMP:

https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Career-Management/Community-Management/Officer/Active-OCM/Restricted-Line/Permanent-Military-Professor/

You get your PhD while a teaching prof. A complete career shift to academia.

Your USNA degree is valuable despite your “misguided” GPA. Stellar performance as an officer can counterbalance that in some ways.

The reason I am dwelling on the Master’s is your current one could be a barrier if not the best program, subject or performance.

Your detailer is supposed to be your career mentor. Continue to seek knowledge from your community seniors but try to have a live phone chat with the detailer, or if they are on a road trip through a major homeport, try for 1:1 time.

There are some excellent schools out there who lean in on military and veterans. Syracuse U and their IVMF program. Villanova U. Many others.

You can also research the Post-9/11 GI Bill and Yellow Ribbon Program (university scholarships for vets that cover the difference between in-state tuition cap and private university tuition) at va.gov. As a USNA grad, to earn 100% of your VA educational benefit, you have to serve 36 months past your initial ADSO, presumably 5 years. Lesser amounts of time get you a pro-rated benefit, lesser percentage. This would be a long-game strategy, post-separation. You could return as a federal civilian and use your USNA and AD time for federal retirement years. Or continue to serve and advance in the Regular Reserve while doing a private sector or federal job. Widen your strategic boundaries.

I don’t have much else for you. I’ll be interested to see what other posters can share.

 

[USNA_STEM_Prof]

Thanks for the tag @Capt MJ

@Cryptospook -- put simply, there's no natural path to a PhD while active duty, with the exception of PMP. I'll set PMP aside for a moment, but circle back to that later.

I know multiple officers with PhDs, several in your community, both others as well. Now, to be fair, most of them are on the RC side, pursued a PhD in a more civilian capacity, but are able to leverage it when in uniform as well. The AC officers I know, outside of the PMP world, did their PhD part-time. I started mine part-time while in the Pentagon, and my progress in it made me a more competitive PMP applicant (better ROI for the Navy).

A few bulleted thoughts with anecdotes:

- A PhD is a long term endeavor. To help make things align for PMP I (1) found the PhD program I was fascinated by and which seemed best for me in 2018, (2) applied in 2020, (3) started part-time in 2021, (4) and commenced full-time in 2022. I knew my master's (Operations Research) would facilitate a large credit reduction in the PhD as well. In other words, I was strategic and didn't try to rush things. I still have a piece of paper from 2018 laying all of this out.

- A PhD isn't about being brilliant. Yes, many brilliant people complete PhDs but they are, in my opinion, more about persistence. I was never the smart kid enlisted nuke, officer nuke, Ops Research student, or PhD student. But I have a country-boy wrestler mentality where no one will out work me. Many of my students here at USNA have superior raw intellectual aptitude -- I just have experience (which matters).

- As for funding, because I passed my GI bill to my kiddos, when working the PhD part-time I was self funding. I know several others that did the same. To the point made by @Capt MJ , some schools are more working-professional / grad education friendly, without being a scam, than others. You'll want a PhD from a legit institution, obviously.

- It sounds like you want to do research, so that ties more strongly into my bullet point above. If you just want the title to buoy job prospects for a think tank, that's fine, but I'd suggest the institution matters less. But if you want to push forward the envelope of human knowledge through research, you need a program that has at least a decent pedigree at a decent university. My PhD is in more of a niche field (one that's growing), but the department for it at my school has the people who basically created the field. In other words, prestigious within that niche world, even if my school doesn't carry the name recognition of Stanford or MIT.

As for PMP:

Competitive, yes, but it varies. It also comes down to your community, YG, and what field you're applying for. I had multiple instances of documented teaching experience on my application, which I know helped me get selected. Please note: As a PMP, tasks 1, 2, and 3 are teach the midshipmen. Only after you've done all you can to support them do you turn to research.

So, I'd encourage you to sit down and put serious thought into why you want a PhD, identify the highly specific area within CS / Cyber that you're interested in, and then try to find programs that will work with you. I didn't resist the Navy asking me to take Pentagon orders in large part because I knew that would have me local to the program I was interested in. Remember: Proper Prior Planning! Good luck and shoot any questions my way.

 

[Capt MJ]

BZ to my shipmate @USNA_STEM_Prof for targeted, thoughtful advice.

 

[Cryptospook]

Did you use Tuition Assistance on your Master’s? I hear you on the “fake degree mil program” - my sympathies. You probably couldn’t use TA again on a more solid version, but I don’t know the current rules. Is that why NPS isn’t an option for a do-over? Not trying to pry.

How is retention in your community and year group? Any leverage with the detailer to ask for a year to be a full-time student at a better-name program in your field? Or duty in a place which has potential for after-hours attendance? Or a quality remote option from a better source? If you are a pack-plus runner and retention is hurting, exceptions to policy can magically appear. I had a flag officer once say to me that if the policy wasn’t written on stone tablets brought down from a mountaintop by an older man with a long white beard, then there could be exceptions or changes.

A PhD isn’t the norm for naval officers, not a career progression block, but can happen if all
planets and stars align. Of course, you have the USNA PMP prof program, which is its own unique career progression. I hope @USNA_STEM_Prof pops up.

This is the USNA PMP:

https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Career-Management/Community-Management/Officer/Active-OCM/Restricted-Line/Permanent-Military-Professor/

You get your PhD while a teaching prof. A complete career shift to academia.

Your USNA degree is valuable despite your “misguided” GPA. Stellar performance as an officer can counterbalance that in some ways.

The reason I am dwelling on the Master’s is your current one could be a barrier if not the best program, subject or performance.

Your detailer is supposed to be your career mentor. Continue to seek knowledge from your community seniors but try to have a live phone chat with the detailer, or if they are on a road trip through a major homeport, try for 1:1 time.

There are some excellent schools out there who lean in on military and veterans. Syracuse U and their IVMF program. Villanova U. Many others.

You can also research the Post-9/11 GI Bill and Yellow Ribbon Program (university scholarships for vets that cover the difference between in-state tuition cap and private university tuition) at va.gov. As a USNA grad, to earn 100% of your VA educational benefit, you have to serve 36 months past your initial ADSO, presumably 5 years. Lesser amounts of time get you a pro-rated benefit, lesser percentage. This would be a long-game strategy, post-separation. You could return as a federal civilian and use your USNA and AD time for federal retirement years. Or continue to serve and advance in the Regular Reserve while doing a private sector or federal job. Widen your strategic boundaries.

I don’t have much else for you. I’ll be interested to see what other posters can share.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. Fortunately, I did not use TA knowing it would potentially close doors for future programs. Unfortunately spent 4 years in the aviation pipeline back when crisis events (Shooting/COVID/Hurricane/Crashes) meant everyone took a hot minute so NPS has been ruled out by my detailer since I only have 3 observed FITREPS and the top of my year group just had their below zone looks, so I expect mine next year. Aviation also did not start my commitment so I still have a few years until my GI bill will start presumably (haven't gotten a solid answer on if that will have impact on the years required) Possible opportunities will open after making next rank and getting more paper. Fortunately, even with that I have been put in opportunities to continuously break out and am a frontrunner in my community. With that said while my community is bottom heavy, so promotion rate is high and early, my current year group is enjoying being able to apply our tradecraft in the dynamic environment current issues have presented so not a lot are getting out. I am definitely considering getting a second MS during my down time next tour (unaccompanied C5F) to get a "real" masters.

 

[Cryptospook]

A PhD is a long term endeavor.

Definitely not looking for a quick option for a title, understand that this will be a years long process. My sister just got hers after 8 years full time. Thankfully it is not a requirement for career, and I am currently ahead of our requirements so I should have the ability to use any time away from work to focus on a program (we'll see how the world/tasking changes).

A PhD isn't about being brilliant.

THANK GOODNESS. I am the first to admit I am not the smartest in the room, but I do strive to be the hardest working. I do not have any considerations towards the pedigree, what really has caused me to look into it is the doors that are opened and the opportunities to provide impactful work. When deployed I was given a project to do research/testing on some products units in the strike group were looking at acquiring. (I may have dived a little too deep into it but its not like sleep is important underway) My boss at the time liked my work and put me on some projects he was working (PhD) on which ended in us daily advising the admiral with the products and I can confidently say it resulted in saved lives. He was able to publish the research in the classified realm so unfortunately, I can't use them as samples when applying. But all to say this gave me the itch to get in an actual program and have the opportunity to provide in depth work and open opportunities for future work.

The PMP program is awesome, my sponsor was a PMP until force retirement and now works for DoD through entities doing more research. With that said he had his PhD before applying so I did not realize you could get into the program without already having it. His research most recently has been aligned with my current job, completely unrelated to his PhD or topics taught but having the PhD seems to be what opened the door. I do love to teach and am constantly qualifying the JOs, have heavily considered going reserves and teaching at USNA, just never had considered PhD until the past year due to how much I enjoyed the research I was able to do/products we developed.

Thank you for your post.

 

[Capt MJ]

Sample “good schools” that lean in for military and veterans (some more so for veterans). There are many.

Veteran and Military Student Support

Syracuse University has a longstanding commitment to veterans and their families, providing the space and resources for exploring education and their futures.

www.syracuse.edu

VETERANS & MILITARY-CONNECTED STUDENTS | Villanova University

Whether you’re active duty, reserves, retired military or a military family member, Villanova Engineering has a program to meet your needs.

www1.villanova.edu

 

[USNA_STEM_Prof]

Thank you for your post.

Happy to help. A few more comments based on your response:

- Having a PhD before applying is certainly an advantage for PMP because it maximizes ROI for the Navy, but part of the program's appeal is the Navy making your full-time job for 3-4 years finishing your PhD.

- The yard is always looking for good RC sailors to put on orders teaching! That said, your GPA and admittedly "fake degree" MS likely make this opportunity unlikely. I'd need to know more to try and advise on this. Feel free to share details on your "real" masters if you want more insight.

- XXX5s can certainly apply for PMP, but the 1-recall each FY makes it even more competitive.

- Don't get me wrong, I'm not dumb, but in the programs typically for the "smart kids" I was middle of the road at best. That said, if you find the right program which internally motivates you, I truly believe earning a PhD is mostly a persistence endeavor. CS and Cyber are no joke though, so I imagine candidacy exams for those are rather difficult. I'd recommend reviewing candidacy pathways for the program. Pure exam routes may be less preferable for you than paper-based routes. I can elaborate if needed.

Good luck and I'm here to help.

 

[hopefulhockeymom]

I don't know if this would feel like a viable option, but Norwich University offers a cybersecurity masters (I know you said you have a "fake military masters"- not sure if that is cyber-related) but they are very dedicated to supporting active duty and veterans in higher ed. Maybe completing a masters program through them or somewhere similar could be a stepping stone to PhD admission - demonstrating that you can handle the graduate-level work? (speaking as someone who had a dismal undergrad GPA - far worse than yours- who took a similar path to get admission to a PhD program- although totally non-military).

 

[nuensis]

I do love to teach and am constantly qualifying the JOs, have heavily considered going reserves and teaching at USNA

Have you looked at JPMP? PMP is a lat transfer, JPMP is a teaching tour, then you go back to your source community. If you do PMP, you stop being a cryppie and teach full time until statutory retirement.

Have you looked at lat transfer to 1840? The only 18XX community with a PhD in the yellow brick road.

Watch your milestone screen timing, screening could shutter your chances for any lateral transfer to anywhere.

I've only seen one 1810 get slotted in via Navy programs for a PhD without doing PMP, and it just was sheer luck. Another community happened to drop the ball on a billet, and the officer just so happened to need a non-milestone tour at the exact right PRD and lined up perfectly with the right PhD program. It's not supposed to happen.

 

[Cryptospook]

Thank you for all the replies, diving into some applications for respected masters programs as that’s looking like the first step no matter the route to go. I do often have a problem planning too far ahead and then Navy coming in hot (i.e. these unexpected orders to Bahrain accepted right before the freeze on accompaniment). I’m working with Service to School and advisors at Syracuse to get past the bad GPA, both have been very responsive.

@USNA_STEM_Prof it’s encouraging your outline years ahead worked out. Once again it seems best to figure out exactly what I want and make a roadmap of how to get there. Im curious about how the program you found worked, when you did part time PhD what did that involve?

Again thanks everyone for the responses.

 

[USNA_STEM_Prof]

@USNA_STEM_Prof it’s encouraging your outline years ahead worked out. Once again it seems best to figure out exactly what I want and make a roadmap of how to get there. Im curious about how the program you found worked, when you did part time PhD what did that involve?

As for how part-time worked, that is simply how many credits you're taking, though in PhD life it's a little looser than typical undergrad calculations. Once I matriculated, I took a couple semesters of just 3 credits (one class), knocking out some of the requirements before I could take my candidacy exams. Combine those credits, a mere 6 admittedly, I then had a large credit reduction due to my masters. In turn, this truncated my required time.

So part time PhD for me was just one class. Many friends in the program are part-time candidates, i.e., they're done with classes and simply taking a small number of research credits as they push their dissertation forward. In that scenario, the only limit I'm aware of is the fact that the school wants you to finish at some point and in the case of mine, a student has nine years from when they're accepted. So figure 3 credits fall and spring each, plus some summer research credits, the program could be completed in nine years at a very slow pace.

On the flip side, from when I started full-time, I finished in 2.5 years, but I wouldn't recommend that. It was kinda terrible!