Administration to Dismantle U.S. Merchant Marine?

See now, we're agreeing on plenty.

I think it's probably important to remember that Coast Guardsmen aren't generally shouting from the mountaintops "give me more missions." It's dictated by Congress, rightly or wrongly, whether the monies there or not.

I think some missions do suffer. I also have had plenty of sector community, specifically MSO folks, who aren't happy with the way the Coast Guard moves it's folks around. How can someone inspect for 3 years, rotate into something totally unrelated for 4 years and then MAYBE get back into the more-regulatory heavy stuff? Not sure. I don't have the answer, and even if I did, I'm just a lowly Coast Guard veteran, and as I distinctly remember thinking as a AD officer, sometimes veterans can insert themselves a little too much, especially as they become less connected with the changes. ...

LITS: Exactly most Merchant Mariner's basis for questioning now leaving the MSO mission to USCG - with the Congressionally mandated additional mission and all the "glamor" etc of Drug Intediction and "newer" "sexier" Homeland Security and Enfocment missions, we've seen and see this as hacking away at the talent levels, etc. of the MSO community in general. BTW, I bet if some current USCG MSOs, especially those who are Maritime Academy & USMMA grads, joined the discussion (they shouldn'tand likely won't for obvious reasons to you) they's agree.

Personally, I'll add I think SAR has also uffered though it's still a "sexy" USCG career path, it's funding and focus suffers from all these added USCG missions without additional adequet funding. Especially when procurement of new USCG Vessels has increased costs for lots of easons including all these added missions.

I share your views re: TWIC and will send you a PM with a few tidbits from personal experience on that one that I'd rather not pst here publically for a cuple of reasons including it's really not even beginning to answer the leady wide ranging topc(s) of this thread
 
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A deep sea maritime industry supports the military's ability to project power overseas. The government is paying as much to have civilian mariners that it can get its hands on through the Navy Reserve as for anything else. The government may not actually use the civlian maritime fleet or its mariners but it is happy to pay for that capability should the need arise.

Finally, a clear and succinct statement.

That should put a bow on this package.

It leaves open the proposition that the gov't should maintain university level academies with free tuition and R&B for a number of other critical needs: STEM teachers, primary care physicians, machinists, areas where we are clearly getting our a***s kicked. I'll let someone else start that thread on "Off Topic".
 
cb7893: I disagree, I've read quite a few laconically compiled rejoinders sprinkled throughout this thread, but then again I have approached each with an open mind...

I do concur with the application of government support for advanced education to ensure critical logistical support of military operations. Like it or not---agree or not---federal funding for maritime education (USMMA and the State Maritime Colleges) does serve this vital need.

Not sure, however, of the consequences of the apple/orange analogy regarding STEM teachers, doctors, etc on our national defense. No argument--each is sorely needed--but has our national security been deeply compromised by their shortage?

I am happy that you did not choose to include lawyers on your critical need list.
 
cb7893: I disagree, ...
I do concur with the application of government support for advanced education to ensure critical logistical support of military operations. Like it or not---agree or not---federal funding for maritime education (USMMA and the State Maritime Colleges) does serve this vital need.

Not sure, however, of the consequences of the apple/orange analogy regarding STEM teachers, doctors, etc on our national defense. No argument--each is sorely needed--but has our national security been deeply compromised by their shortage? ...

kpcrew: Now I disagree and I believe if you read Mahan's original thinking in both "Seapower" as well as his key lectures, etc. believe you might reconsider. The way you've presented it here, it seems your thinking is that "national security" is the chicken (objective) and <my editorial/inference> and <prosperity/economic well being - e.g the happiness part of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"> is the "egg" (means). My take on the whole basis is that the objective is happiness & economic prosperity/national well being is the objective and seapower - including a solid merchant marine/merchant navy is key to the means. In that regard, in today's world/global economy STEM Teachers, doctors, etc are also, arguably, essential to our ability to create and sustain our propserity, including in the case of STEM teachers, our ability to sustain the means of providing National Security in an effective, efficient manner. That's why virtually every major Aerospace and Defense company has some effort and increasing amount of philantrophic effort underway in support of STEM.
 
I can't believe I am +1ing Jasper.

One doesn't need to read Alfred Mahan. Just read the newspaper.

-We don't have enough primary care physicians and we pay almost double what other supposedly socialist profligate countries pay for medical care on a per capita % of GDP basis.

-We need more high school or community college educated machinists as well as college educated engineers.

-We do not produce enough math literate kids because we don't have enough math literate teachers.

If we cannot catch up with Germany, Finland and Japan in these areas we will not be able to continue to afford paying to keep their energy supply lines open.:biggrin:

Jasper I still want Halliburton, Maersk, Dry Ships, COSTCO (not the store) etc. to pay into the KP kitty.
 
j-dog: Absolutely concur with your sentiments. I accept the rectification of my remarks and acknowledge a remission to underscore any corollary logic behind the economic ramifications of a strong domestic merchant marine industry. In all candor, I didn't think that aspect of the mission would hold much of a persuasive value to this audience. In hindsight I agree that it was wrong to narrow the focus on national defense.

One thing is certain: You know how to pick a winner. I can't imagine having much success arguing the pursuit of happiness!!!
 
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cb:

Believe you meant to type COSCO (the shipping company) vice COSTCO (the bulk retailer). I still don't agree they should pay an additional fee to a kitty for maritime training just catching what I imagine is a typo - not that I ever make them...

kpcrew: So I guess it's now a clearly a case of either: "great minds think alike" or could just as well be: "fools never vary" ...

For the record I successfully took virtually every demerit I ever got to BX mast from 4/c - 2/c year - great run until first class year - back in the day 1/c had to take everything to Commandant's mast - I was unsuccessful in masting even a single first class year demerit/stick down at Commandant's Mast... and I did get a few - but the "pursuit of happiness" defense is indeed a hard one to argue against - though it didn't work too well as a justifiable reason why I was over the wall when I tried to use it for that mast....:redface:
 
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cb:

Believe you meant to type COSCO (the shipping company) vice COSTCO (the bulk retailer). I still don't agree just catching what I imagine is a typo - not that I ever make them...:

My very embarassing bad. Were there an emoticon for that emotion I would have used it.
 
Re: COSCO. I can not imagine any willingness on the part of a shipping company owned by the Peoples Republic of China and headquartered in Beijing to contribute to any U.S. Federal Service Academy. Then again, with the exponential growth of our national monetary debt to that country that has occurred, maybe they can appreciate the continued viability of our country's maritime industry and naval preparedness. Talk about the potential for a great ROI!!!
 
Then let them dock in Vancouver and find someone to pay the overland freight spread between Vancouver and Seattle, Longview, or Long Beach or Vancouver, OR.

They have a trade deficit with the rest of the world. Who has the leverage here anyway?
 
-We do not produce enough math literate kids because we don't have enough math literate teachers.

I disagree.

Having now worked with high school teachers for a solid school year and seen how my cadets are in math...

It's not the teachers...IMHO it's a law known as "No child left behind." I see students that are clearly not fast learners in math (I can relate, I am one)...but the teachers are told "...no child left behind" so...the class is slowed to keep it at the level needed for the slowest learner. The other students, including gifted ones, are left bored and underchallenged.

Then...those that start to have difficulties...I see them and their parents march into the counselors' office: "It's the teacher's fault, our little child is brilliant!" So...they pull the child out of the class they're failing, and put them in "basket weaving math" either online or a slow class...and press ahead.

Leaving the child with little in their future re: mathematical ability.

What they SHOULD be doing is putting an emphasis on the old fashioned "reading, writing, and arithmaticking..." and no easy outs, LOTS of after-school help (at USAFA we called it EI for extra instruction) and put the honus on the parents and the students to get the help they need to be successful!

But then again...I'm asking the impossible in today's PCUSA.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
Then let them dock in Vancouver and find someone to pay the overland freight spread between Vancouver and Seattle, Longview, or Long Beach or Vancouver, OR.

They have a trade deficit with the rest of the world. Who has the leverage here anyway?

Thank you. I am uncertain if it was deliberate, but your suggestion to drive the business of foreign fleets away from the infrastructure of U. S. port facilities has spoken volumes.
 
Thank you. I am uncertain if it was deliberate, but your suggestion to drive the business of foreign fleets away from the infrastructure of U. S. port facilities has spoken volumes.

They are not going to dump the load in Vancouver to save $1 per car or container. Do the math. If the freight is bound for the US, it will unload in the US regardless.

Flieger, my DS's went to and are going to a a well funded public high school in the Midwest. Maybe 50 out of a class of 275 will have taken Calc by the time they graduate. They are the chosen ones, most of whom are in higher math because they are high achievers who will not even study STEM in college. If they do they will end up in business, medicine or law.

I know how the teachers blame the NCLB. I know well how the schools are set up to make sure that Johnny can play his football and graduate. But I also know that we lag the developed world by leaps and bounds in STEM. That's why we have to import them for crying out loud. If we demand excellence from the parents and students we should demand it from the teachers. If all of them are competent great. We just need more of them.
 
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