Admiral Fowler in his own words

Maybe there are not so many differences between Army and Navy after all.
 
What is going on at the Academy? My son is eating cereal or peanut butter and jelly every night. Morale is low and my son told me that they have no respect for the dant. Isn't she there for the midshipman? Something is not right. I had better food at bootcamp and all the ships that I served on. The place sounds like a private military school running out of funds. Do they want to shut it down? Vice Admiral wants it to be more like the fleet? I sincerely doubt that they would run the fleet like he's running the Academy. At least the fleet wasn't run like this when I served and I am retired.
 
Send food. Food they can share. Food that can store in a plastic box for a while. :smile:
 
I am clearly an outsider looking in. I have read all he posts from parents and mids etc......
I have also read Fowler's vision - thanks Peskemom.
I agree with Antionette - sounded a lot like the Army. Sounds right though because many sailors are on the ground in Iraq - where they are more soldier than sailor.

As for the food issue - two seperate issues the way I see it. One is the change in contractors - there will be kinks that have to be worked out. Menus, logistics etc. This takes time.
From what I have read - the food has been "bad" for a while - years. The mids didnt complain because the meals weren't mandatory -they could eat elsewhere. Now the meals are mandatory - 4000 mids are eating the same food.

Some people eat to live and others live to eat. I personally like food and live to eat! Our sailors and soldiers need to learn to eat to live. Not everything will be to their liking. One man's scrapple (yuk!) is another man's steak.

Learning to eat what you may not like is important. Do you know there are soldiers and sailors on the ground in Afghanistan who are losing weight.
They are being deployed in very remote areas and the Army is very concerned with supplying them with enough calories along with food they will eat. This is much easier said than done and a critical issue with keeping troops on the ground.
What does this have to do with USNA food - learning to eat food that is unfamiliar or not so tasty. This lesson is not a bad one.

Given that, I betcha the food situation will turn around and improve over the year. Change is quick to implement but longer to adjust to - from every angle, not just the mids. In the meantime - subskipper offers good advice. This may be easier said than done - if my kid was a mid there I would be telling her to suck it up and eat what is served - it won't kill them.

If mids are dropping out because of the food - maybe the are they for the wrong reasons. Those mids that persevere through this situation will be stronger for it and perhaps better leaders for their sailors when/if they are in a position that they must eat to live.
 
Hey, all that bad food at my house (I am not a good cook...) has inadvertantly been good training for my military son! He thinks Army food is great but mainly because there is plenty of it and it is "free". I am sure the kinks will be worked out at USNA with the food.

I think all the SA's are continually changing to meet the challenges of our changing world security situation. It is not just at the USNA. Now that our children "belong" to the military, our role is one of support. I am with subskipper, send food until your child says "stop"!
 
Funny thing about the food at the USNA vs USAFA or West Point....I started an 'informal' poll at another website similiar to this one and basically asked current students at all three (or their parents) to comment on what they thought of the food.

Virtually EVERYONE at the USNA is saying there are MAJOR issues with the food (i.e. quality, quantity, nutritional value.....etc.). Virtually NO ONE at USAFA or West Point is saying that.......so yes, there sounds like there still are significant issues to be addressed here.

If it was only one or two disgruntled mids that is one thing, but when you are hearing it from LARGE numbers of people who currently go there (not someone who thought they knew a neighbor who might know someone who attended years ago.......) it sounds to me like a very serious problem that has yet to be resolved whatever the reason.
 
about the food... at a visit with the naps fb team a few weeks ago, we barely had enough food for breakfast. not enough for everyone at the table to get ONE piece of french toast, and i wasn't even at a full table. we also had very litlle sides to go with. i think i ended up skipping my french toast andjust eating cereal so the o-linemen could have some food. it was thee last meal before they played the game after all.
 
I want to make it clear that my son is not complaining. I am. The situation at the Academy is not getting any better. If it is the civilian contracter who is screwing up then get rid of the company. If it is Fowler who is screwing up then get rid of him. I find it hard to believe that someone who has made vice admiral does not realize what is going on around him. He needs to stop trying to make a name for himself and start acting like a leader. If you have people that can not carry out a mission then you need to get rid of them. The midshipman are bright and hardworking young people. They have worked hard to get where they are at. To hand cuff, hand hold them like this and serve them slop under the guise that we are at war is demoralizing and short sighted. What is this teaching them? Subskipper, I do send him food. I am the one who ask what has he had for dinner. The answer is either cereal or PB&J. It is time to stop making excuses and start expecting better from - Our nations Naval undergraduate college.
 
Isn't the USAFA and WP also "at war"? Somehow they manage to get the food thing right.
 
There was a food shortage for one meal, the Saturday before reform. Everything else has been blown way out of proportion.

The food quality is also being totally exaggerated. A bunch of midshipmen do not want to eat three meals a day in King Hall, see it as having their hands tied, and are *****ing and moaning about this and using their perception of the food quality as further ammunition. I would bet there's not a nickels worth of difference today between the food at USNA and that a AFA or WP. The issue is not food, it is military bearing and leadership. They are not getting on board with the new leadership and are providing very poor examples to the new plebes. It is institutional food. One menu for everyone. It's not Burger King. They can't have it their way. Parents, instead of coddling them and contributing to their poor leadership, help them to step up to the plate and perform as they are expected. The Academy doesn't need new leadership. Adm Fowler is doing what is expected of him. The midshipmen need to start acting like members of the military instead of little children, whining and crying to mom and dad.

I love the way all the old hands talk about how great the food is in the fleet. One cannot enter the Chief's Mess during a meal without their eye's watering. They go through a case of Texas Pete a day. I think it is still on the tables in King Hall. Works wonders. They ought to try it. It would probably make a cod dog taste and look like a red hot.

If these kids cannot handle King Hall, I would love to be a fly on the wall when, as senior shore patrol officer in a few years in some third world country, the local police dept invites the entire shore patrol party to dinner the last night in port. Ensign Door sitting at the head of the table staring at a plate of totally unrecognizable items which he is told is food. Like JAM stated, it is time for them to start learning to eat what is placed in front of them. None of the Naval ships I was ever on had a Burger King either.

There are two growing groups of plebes at the Academy right now, those who look up to their upper class and heed their advice. That advice now just happens to be to resign and go to a civilian college, USNA , according to them, isn't worth it. The other group of plebes look at their upper class as worthless poor leaders. I have one plebe parent who just happens to be a retired Navy Master Chief with 32 yrs active service that truly believes the entire Brigade should be put in hack. I tend to agree with him.

navyclarinet, unfortunately your table didn't get briefed on proper procedures. There were plenty of seconds, one just had to ask for them.
 
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USNA69 said:
There was a food shortage for one meal, the Saturday before reform. Everything else has been blown way out of proportion.

The food quality is also being totally exaggerated.
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No it isn't.

It's quite clear that Fowler, acting upon direct orders from President Bush, is purposefully starving the Brigade and causing undue emotional anguish by demanding that the Midshipmen actually eat as a unit.

It's perfectly clear to those who wish to see it. Also, since we are not currently enrolled at USNA, our opinions don't matter. We're just a bunch of has-beens who should shut up and return to whatever else it is we've found to bore ourselves with since separating.

:rolleyes:
 
Having eaten in King Hall as a guest of Midshipmen multiple times (of course this was years ago), I've found the food there quite palatable. I can't speak for whats going on now, but if there are issues with the food and the amount of food, I say just bring in an MPS ship, offload the MRE's, and let the mids eat them for 3 weeks. After that I can guarantee that anything that is cooked up at King Hall will taste like a 5 star meal.

Having done that for a month at the beginning of Desert Storm, my first hot meal was rice and hot dogs for breakfast. I still remember that meal and how wonderful it tasted.

My sympathy level for the Midshipmen is along the lines of USNA69, not much at all.
 
Zaphod said:
It's quite clear that Fowler, acting upon direct orders from President Bush, is purposefully starving the Brigade and causing undue emotional anguish by demanding that the Midshipmen actually eat as a unit.
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Well sort of - it is actually a conspiracy. See, Army is tired of repeatedly losing the Army/Navy game - they want a chance to win this year and.....................:wink:
 
I asked my son about the cod dog. He said that he was hungry and ate it. He is hearing the upper classmen griping and telling plebes that they don't know what has been "taken away from them (upper classmen)." He said that the comments about the food situation are true but also stated that he is doing fine. As far as rule changes go he does not know any different being a plebe however he stated that the comments from firsties are along the lines that they (the upper classmen) are being treated like plebes. All in all my son is doing fine and did not expect plebe year to be a walk in the park. I have some pretty funny pictures to prove that it isn't all serious at the Academy.
 
time2 said:
Isn't the USAFA and WP also "at war"? Somehow they manage to get the food thing right.
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I seriously wonder if you have been paying attention. USMA and USAFA have NOT made major changes to frequency of mandatory meals, a new provider and menu changes.
Of course, there are going to be a few problems - they will be worked out.

In the meantime:
He is hearing the upper classmen griping and telling plebes that they don't know what has been "taken away from them (upper classmen).
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This is disturbing. If there is a shred of truth to this then Admiral Fowler has a point. USNA has not been adequately preparing mids for leadership in the fleet. If this is their reaction as a future officer then how will they lead sailors? Will they in turn gripe and complain about every order that comes down? What happened to leading by example? If they can't suck up loss of "priveleges" then how will they act in war? Our enlisted sailors and soldiers deserve to be lead by the best leaders - they are the biggest losers.
Clearly, the plebes will benefit the most - not only will they not miss what they never had but they are witnessing leadership at it worst - from their own classmates.
 
Just_A_Mom said:
Well sort of - it is actually a conspiracy. See, Army is tired of repeatedly losing the Army/Navy game - they want a chance to win this year and.....................:wink:
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How foolish of me not to have thought that Army would be behind it. :biggrin:
 
Just_A_Mom said:
Of course, there are going to be a few problems - they will be worked out.

In the meantime:

This is disturbing. If there is a shred of truth to this then Admiral Fowler has a point. USNA has not been adequately preparing mids for leadership in the fleet. If this is their reaction as a future officer then how will they lead sailors? Will they in turn gripe and complain about every order that comes down? What happened to leading by example? If they can't suck up loss of "priveleges" then how will they act in war? Our enlisted sailors and soldiers deserve to be lead by the best leaders - they are the biggest losers.
Clearly, the plebes will benefit the most - not only will they not miss what they never had but they are witnessing leadership at it worst - from their own classmates.
Click to expand...

Preach it, Sister. :mad:
 
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